Gold and Red Hypothesis

[Trusk'our he/him]

We've seen the Men of Gold and Red now, and I've been thinking on what they may be.

I hypothesize that they are the Cognitive Shadows of Autonomy's best agents corrupted with her Investiture and brought back to do her dirty work.

I'm thinking this because Mr. Suit was told would be allowed to "serve in another realm" right before being blown up. Would be pretty anticlimactic if he was just gone after that exchange and the creature was just clinically insane.

The "Faceless Immortals" Suit mentions are in Autonomy's employ may simply be Men of Gold and Red stapled into bodies much like Fused, which would fit with this theme. Those that traveled via Perpendicularity may have the luxury of having their own bodies, or simply do so because they don't need to disguise themselves as regular people.

It would also fit Bavadin's habit of trying to take over and utilize other Shards' magic systems if many of these servants (like Miles Dagouter) were made into ghosts, given new bodies, then unleashed to cause havoc as she willed. They might even have an additional, generic power that they share, since we have this WoB:

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/509-youtube-spoiler-stream-5/#e16007

KandraAllomancer

Are the men of gold and red from any Shardworld we've seen so far? Do they use any magic system we currently know?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Maybe not only, but yes.

Their red eyes could be from her corrupting their Spiritwebs to make them Shadows despite them having non-Autonomy aligned Investiture (or simply it's more forceful, changing their own natures a bit, maybe to make them more ruthless soldiers).

 

As an aside, perhaps the reason Bavadin can't easily reel them in after setting them loose is because Autonomy inherently struggles with dominating people like Ruin would with his constructs. She did control a dying agent to speak to Wax, but it would be very different than someone actively fighting her control. And it would just be a fun and fitting Shardic limitation, in my opinion.

[Jult]

Cool idea. I've often wondered why more Shards didn't take advantage of immortality hacks like Fused, Heralds, and Returned. There are a few WoBs that back up the idea too. Specifically, the bit about red eyes coming from corruption:

Spoiler

Questioner

So, we know in Mistborn there is this running... you can say, motif about Ruin being associated with the color black and Preservation with the color white, we see a lot of very subtle and a lot of very unsubtle...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yes.

Questioner

Is such a motif present in any other books? I think I see it in Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, in Stormlight you can see it. So, Ruin is a red-gold... not Ruin, Odium. Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium.

Questioner

Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so...

Questioner

It's not necessarily on Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah.

Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug.
ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

Spoiler

Questioner

I’m curious, are the red eyes in The Bands of Mourning also linked to Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a similar thing happening, but it may not be the link you expect.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 1/20/2026 at 11:17 AM, Jult said:

Cool idea. I've often wondered why more Shards didn't take advantage of immortality hacks like Fused, Heralds, and Returned. 

I think it's either because of personal morals, like considering the pain of mortals living so long or the idea of such longevity being unnatural, or it's because most don't think they need it.

They have nearly infinite power, after all, and most could probably just smite whoever they felt the need to.

Beyond that, I see few ways an army of Cognitive Shadows/ageless people would help a Shard. Odium's and Honor's agents are an exception, since they cannot act as directly. But if Odium sent his army to kill Tanavast? They'd be obliterated in a heartbeat. Not super useful. 

[bmcclure7]

On 1/19/2026 at 4:37 PM, Trusk'our said:

We've seen the Men of Gold and Red now, and I've been thinking on what they may be.

I hypothesize that they are the Cognitive Shadows of Autonomy's best agents corrupted with her Investiture and brought back to do her dirty work.

I'm thinking this because Mr. Suit was told would be allowed to "serve in another realm" right before being blown up. Would be pretty anticlimactic if he was just gone after that exchange and the creature was just clinically insane.

The "Faceless Immortals" Suit mentions are in Autonomy's employ may simply be Men of Gold and Red stapled into bodies much like Fused, which would fit with this theme. Those that traveled via Perpendicularity may have the luxury of having their own bodies, or simply do so because they don't need to disguise themselves as regular people.

It would also fit Bavadin's habit of trying to take over and utilize other Shards' magic systems if many of these servants (like Miles Dagouter) were made into ghosts, given new bodies, then unleashed to cause havoc as she willed. They might even have an additional, generic power that they share, since we have this WoB:

  Hide contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/509-youtube-spoiler-stream-5/#e16007

KandraAllomancer

Are the men of gold and red from any Shardworld we've seen so far? Do they use any magic system we currently know?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Maybe not only, but yes.

Their red eyes could be from her corrupting their Spiritwebs to make them Shadows despite them having non-Autonomy aligned Investiture (or simply it's more forceful, changing their own natures a bit, maybe to make them more ruthless soldiers).

 

As an aside, perhaps the reason Bavadin can't easily reel them in after setting them loose is because Autonomy inherently struggles with dominating people like Ruin would with his constructs. She did control a dying agent to speak to Wax, but it would be very different than someone actively fighting her control. And it would just be a fun and fitting Shardic limitation, in my opinion.

But this is the best theory so far for what the men of red and gold are I’m convinced