Harmony's Sword

[Trusk'our he/him]

I don't know why I didn't consider this before (or maybe I did and just forgot), but if Wax had continued working for Sazed and being his agent, do we think he would have been Invested to become an Avatar similar to what Telsin was becoming for Autonomy?

I guess it would be a good way to dump his excess Ruin and simultaneously put it to good use protecting Scadrial, at least until Wax was too corrupted by its Intent. Though he could switch it up every now and then, giving the power to a new Sword to protect Scadrial and keep its bearer fresh.

[KnightSkye Reforged They/Them]

I think that this is something that could definitely have happened, and that Sazed was terrified of doing, which I think contributed to him promising to stop asking Wax to be his sword.

[Returned he/him]

I wonder how much of Wax's "employment" by Sazed involved any real transfer of Investiture, as opposed to ideological alignment and converging goals. My general impression of Wax and Sazed's relationship, and the concept of being a sword at all, was that it was mostly the latter two. Wax had a temperament and personality which were suitable to accomplish the things Sazed wanted accomplished even without direct control/guidance/constant interference, but was free of the internal conflict that prevented Sazed from acting on his own.

Given that his inability to act seems pretty encompassing for Sazed, such that an independent sword (no, not that independent sword!) was necessary, I wonder if he even could from an avatar in the manner of Autonomy and Telsin. I also think that Wax was pretty used up, emotionally and psychologically, in his work for Sazed. That degradation is what led him to turn away from the role and, I personally think, one of the core elements which made him suitable to the task in the first place.

Edited January 8 by Returned

[Cosmer]

Yeah I just never got the sense Harmony invested him at all. Always preferred nudges and hints and whatnot - possibly because his balance issues mean he can’t grant investiture that easy. Or it would be too much direct involvement for the powers to let it work. 
 

I do think we see this happen in Ghostbloods though…he’s going to find a way to share power with someone (or be bullied into it by a very convincing talker) so action can be taken to protect Scadrial. 

[Sophrosyne he/him]

I think Harmony COULD have invested Wax to make him into something that was more or less an avatar, but I don't think that was necessarily the plan, even Wax (Spoiler for end of Lost Metal)

Spoiler

becoming mistborn

was accidental. So, I concur with others. I think it's somewhat likely though that this is abit of set up for Harmony eventually doing something like this.
A) splitting off chunks of ruin and investing people to Insite change and destruction. 
B) Respliting his shard into two more manageable and aligned intents. 

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Cosmer said:

Yeah I just never got the sense Harmony invested him at all.

Technically, we see this happen in every Era 2 book - just not in the "Build an Avatar sense."

Being Harmony's chosen sword allowed (WoB):

Spoiler

be attuned to the Mists

Quote

Questioner

Has Wax drawn on the mists at some point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

Quote

stargeak

In Mistborn 5, Shadows of Self, Wax chases Bleeder into the mist after the party where she was speaking in his mind to taunt him. As Wax jumps into the mist to follow, he has an internal monologue thinking about Vin. He says he can see her vaguely within the mist.

"Slight of frame, short hair splayed out as she moved, mistcloak fluttering behind her. It was a fancy, wasn't it?"

Has the mist become a self aware Splinter of Harmony similar to how the Stormfather operated with Honor? Also, since the mist "tuned" Vin to be able to take the Shard of Preservation, does the mist remember Vin in some form? And is it still connected to her similar to how a Returned is connected to their former self?

Brandon Sanderson

You're making some excellent theories here; I'm not sure if I want to stamp any of them out. I like where you're going on this. I will say that this is related to where, if you read in Words of Radiance, you will see odd things sometimes happen with Investiture. There is a scene (that I don't think a lot of people pick up on) where Syl is responding to Connection threads being built and is looking different than she should look and things like this. We're looking more at the Spiritual Realm and Spirit Webs and Connections and things like that. Not to stamp out any of your theories, but also to kind of direct you—often times when I'm writing pure Investiture or beings of Investiture, they respond to echoes in the Spiritual Realm. And like I said, you'll see this in Syl sometimes.

I'll leave it there. Continue theorizing but go that direction.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

Quote

WhiteKyu

Will Wax find out that he is a Mistborn during his lifetime? This is assuming we won't see him again.

Brandon Sanderson

Wax suspects it already. There's a piece of him that knows by the end of this book. He will know pretty soon. He's a detective, right? 

Wax is used to getting a little extra help from the mists, which is clouding his ability to put his finger exactly on what's happening, but there's a piece of him that expects [suspects]. And you can anticipate that even in the year between, in the prologue [epilogue], soon after his recovery, he went and tested and found out what's going on, and is keeping his lips sealed about what that implies.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

 

[Cosmer]

@Treamayne true! Kinda forgot about Wax and the mists. Still rarely happens and only a little bit of investiture. 

[Treamayne]

32 minutes ago, Cosmer said:

@Treamayne true! Kinda forgot about Wax and the mists. Still rarely happens and only a little bit of investiture. 

Exactly my point. Sazed is investing Wax - but Scadrial is a low-investiture world and it is only small sips - nothing even close to Telsin/Autonomy (and we likely would not want soemthing like that (White Sand Spoilers)

Spoiler

Just look at what Autonomy's Avatar to Dayside (The Sand Lord) did in White Sand. . . 

WoB:

Spoiler

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

[WitAdjacent]

On 1/7/2026 at 11:23 PM, Trusk'our said:

I don't know why I didn't consider this before (or maybe I did and just forgot), but if Wax had continued working for Sazed and being his agent, do we think he would have been Invested to become an Avatar similar to what Telsin was becoming for Autonomy?

I guess it would be a good way to dump his excess Ruin and simultaneously put it to good use protecting Scadrial, at least until Wax was too corrupted by its Intent. Though he could switch it up every now and then, giving the power to a new Sword to protect Scadrial and keep its bearer fresh.

Is Sazed already the "avatar" for Preservation and Ruin? Like Rayze, then Taravangian, is for Odium? Its my understanding that Autonomy is unique in how the power is shared to individuals, not making them full avatars, but "splinters" of the shard while still connected to the main shard? I dunno if that makes sense.

23 hours ago, Returned said:

I wonder how much of Wax's "employment" by Sazed involved any real transfer of Investiture, as opposed to ideological alignment and converging goals. My general impression of Wax and Sazed's relationship, and the concept of being a sword at all, was that it was mostly the latter two. Wax had a temperament and personality which were suitable to accomplish the things Sazed wanted accomplished even without direct control/guidance/constant interference, but was free of the internal conflict that prevented Sazed from acting on his own.

Given that his inability to act seems pretty encompassing for Sazed, such that an independent sword (no, not that independent sword!) was necessary, I wonder if he even could from an avatar in the manner of Autonomy and Telsin. I also think that Wax was pretty used up, emotionally and psychologically, in his work for Sazed. That degradation is what led him to turn away from the role and, I personally think, one of the core elements which made him suitable to the task in the first place.

You think there was a little more to it than him just being aligned though? Like didn't Wax inhale some of the harmonium leading to him hearing voices and seeing things? He also had like enhanced coinshot abilities far and away from what others had been able to achieve, save Ole Iron Eyes.

[Returned he/him]

1 hour ago, WitAdjacent said:

Is Sazed already the "avatar" for Preservation and Ruin? Like Rayze, then Taravangian, is for Odium? Its my understanding that Autonomy is unique in how the power is shared to individuals, not making them full avatars, but "splinters" of the shard while still connected to the main shard? I dunno if that makes sense.

Cosmere terminology can get fussy. Sazed and Rayse are not avatars, they are vessels-- they personally hold the Shards. Avatars are a different thing. Autonomy isn't unique in being able to create avatars, though it is probably unique in its enthusiasm for them.

1 hour ago, WitAdjacent said:

You think there was a little more to it than him just being aligned though? Like didn't Wax inhale some of the harmonium leading to him hearing voices and seeing things? He also had like enhanced coinshot abilities far and away from what others had been able to achieve, save Ole Iron Eyes.

Wax was Harmony's sword before his experiments with Harmonium. I think so at least, I'm sure arguments can be made for some specific point at which he became that instead of just some guy. I don't think that his being a coinshot savant is related, though again there is probably an argument that they are related. Harmony saw Wax as having the characteristics which would make him a suitable agent for Harmony's designs and then cultivated him to actually fill that role. What we see from Alloy of Law through Lost Metal are largely Wax's activities in that mode. Maybe we're defining things differently from each other, though. What does a title or designation like "Harmony's sword" suggest to you?

Edited January 9 by Returned

[WitAdjacent]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know the terminology can get twisted easily. Like the idea of someone becoming a "sliver" or a "bearer" or "vessel". Goodness im already confused.

I think what you're saying makes sense now that you've clarified terminology for me. Harmony is a conflicted being that cannot act due to Rules applied to him from the Shards he carries. If we thought Preservation or Ruin were limited by their Shard's Traits, then Harmony must be practically immobilized. I can see how, and its coming back to me as I type this, that Wax could be an arm of Harmony (and Wayne as well in his explosive way) by preserving as they ruined. If Harmony were to act as purely interested in Ruin or Preservation he would cancel himself out, as Ruin and Preservation often did in Era 1.

5 hours ago, Cosmer said:

@Treamayne true! Kinda forgot about Wax and the mists. Still rarely happens and only a little bit of investiture. 

Doesn't he make the comment, almost every time he enters the mists, that his pain goes away or he feels invigorated? He must be pulling on them subconsciously.

Edited January 9 by WitAdjacent

[Trusk'our he/him]

51 minutes ago, WitAdjacent said:

Is Sazed already the "avatar" for Preservation and Ruin? Like Rayze, then Taravangian, is for Odium? Its my understanding that Autonomy is unique in how the power is shared to individuals, not making them full avatars, but "splinters" of the shard while still connected to the main shard? I dunno if that makes sense.

20 minutes ago, Returned said:

Cosmere terminology can get fussy. Sazed, Rayse, and Taravangian are not avatars, they are vessels-- they personally hold the Shards. Avatars are a different thing. Autonomy isn't unique in being able to create avatars, though it is probably unique in its enthusiasm for them.

Please note that this is the Mistborn Forum, not the Cosmere Forum. Spoilers for Stormlight Archive stuff are best put in spoiler boxes.

[WitAdjacent]

31 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Please note that this is the Mistborn Forum, not the Cosmere Forum. Spoilers for Stormlight Archive stuff are best put in spoiler boxes.

Sorry about that! New around here. I'll do better!

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, WitAdjacent said:

Is Sazed already the "avatar" for Preservation and Ruin? Like Rayze, then Taravangian, is for Odium? Its my understanding that Autonomy is unique in how the power is shared to individuals, not making them full avatars, but "splinters" of the shard while still connected to the main shard? I dunno if that makes sense.

Sazed is a Vessel (Like Rayse and Leras). Avatars are portions of a Shard's power that are not separated from the power of a Shard (unlike a Splinter). An Avatar may have a Vessel (e. g. Telsin/Trell) or may not ( Spoilers for SotD/White Sand e. g. Sand Lord, Patji). Bavadin (Autonomy's Vessel) prefers to work with Avatars because her (alleged) goal is to "out-religion" the other Shards (TLM Ch 20). 

WoB:

Spoiler

emailanimal

[Brandon] must have had enough of chuckles every time someone referred to Bavadin as a "he" over the past few years.....

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Edited for Length and Relevance

General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 28, 2016)

 

Edited January 10 by Treamayne
SPAG/Reference

[Usseewa ✾ She♡Her ✾]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Spoilers for SotD/White Sand e. g. Sand Lord, Patji).

Your spoiler text is the default grey, not black, so it can still be seen pretty easily (I made it black in the quote).

Edited January 9 by Theory