Merry Christmas

[Chaos he/him]

Hi all, just a note: your height has nothing to do with the topic at hand and so I have removed the irrelevant posts that are off topic. Please feel free to make a topic in General Discussion, I suppose, but stay on topic in book discussion. This is not the same as a chat room.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

21 minutes ago, Returned said:

Permanently by losing an object that Breath is stored in, by misplacing it or possibly it being destroyed. Temporarily by having enough Awakened objects at once that you lose that Heightening. At 1,000 Breaths using even one to Awaken something will cost you your life sense until you reclaim it. Otherwise you're right and if you got the Breath gift and chose never to Awaken anything you'd securely have your aura recognition and perfect pitch, color recognition, and life sense indefinitely.

How would you loose life sense when awakening something once with 1000 breaths? And most of the time, you would only have one or 2 things awakened, meaning the smallest amount of breaths lost.

22 minutes ago, Returned said:

A modern person could easily afford to have Vin's buffs available to them, I think. But more broadly I'm not thinking of only combat potential-- I would rather have the ability to do other things besides (or in addition to, if we're imagining an action-packed setting) fighting and killing, so that's not as big a draw for me as the primary value in one of the powers. And even then the metals would be useful in a fight, if not as much as Plate in many situations, and unless you're facing someone in Plate themselves Allomancy is pretty great.

I don't fully get what you're saying here, can you please rephrase?

[Returned he/him]

1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

How would you loose life sense when awakening something once with 1000 breaths? And most of the time, you would only have one or 2 things awakened, meaning the smallest amount of breaths lost.

Because it's a threshold system. You reach the 4th Heightening, perfect life sense, at 1,000 Breaths (technically, X Breaths since it's not a precise map but approximately 1,000). So at 1,000 Breaths you get the powers up to the 4th threshold. If you Awaken anything you then have 1,000 minus at least one Breath, so at most you then have 999, which is below the 4th Heightening threshold and so you then lose that power. Most Awakenings take more than one Breath but I don't think we have a good sense of the scale. I think the only Awakener we see put a number of Breaths to their Awakenings is Vasher, and even that's hard because he's among the best Awakeners doing the most difficult and intricate things. We also know there is variation based on your Command, visualization, Intent, skill, etc., so the "smallest amount" of Breaths used may be greater than the Awakener prefers, in addition to a number of Breaths they don't know precisely.

If your goal is to maintain at least the 3rd Heightening I think you'd be able to achieve that while also doing a good deal of Awakening for all kinds of purposes, though permanent loss should still be a concern because they could add up quickly. If you want to have the 4th Heightening and also Awaken things you might have a harder time.

1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

I don't fully get what you're saying here, can you please rephrase?

A couple of things: you had said that Vin's Allomancy wasn't disappointing because she needed and could afford the Allomantic buffs she had. A modern person could easily afford unlimited amounts (on the Allomantic scale, measured mostly in flakes) of the metals and so could afford those buffs even more easily than Vin could.

The rest was a response to your comment "When will any combat abilities be useful to us when Plate is just so much better?", which seems to define out any non-combat use of Allomancy. I'm interested in a lot of the non-combat things that Allomancy can do which Plate cannot, and so even though Plate is better for most fighting situations that's not what I value. Even if I were to get the lerasium and also get into a fight, the Allomancy is probably going to be a massive advantage for me, such as when Vin clears out Cett's tower in WoA. Even if we agree that Plate is often better in a fight than Allomancy, Allomancy is still amazingly better than mundane fighting.

And to reiterate, I'm not dunking on the Unoathed Plate and Blade choice. They're awesome, and my childhood dream of being able to shout that it's morphin' time and have super armor appear is very appealing. I'm just explaining why my personal hierarchy of preferences places lerasium above it.

Edited December 25, 2025 by Returned

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

3 hours ago, Returned said:

Because it's a threshold system. You reach the 4th Heightening, perfect life sense, at 1,000 Breaths (technically, X Breaths since it's not a precise map but approximately 1,000). So at 1,000 Breaths you get the powers up to the 4th threshold. If you Awaken anything you then have 1,000 minus at least one Breath, so at most you then have 999, which is below the 4th Heightening threshold and so you then lose that power. Most Awakenings take more than one Breath but I don't think we have a good sense of the scale. I think the only Awakener we see put a number of Breaths to their Awakenings is Vasher, and even that's hard because he's among the best Awakeners doing the most difficult and intricate things. We also know there is variation based on your Command, visualization, Intent, skill, etc., so the "smallest amount" of Breaths used may be greater than the Awakener prefers, in addition to a number of Breaths they don't know precisely.

If your goal is to maintain at least the 3rd Heightening I think you'd be able to achieve that while also doing a good deal of Awakening for all kinds of purposes, though permanent loss should still be a concern because they could add up quickly. If you want to have the 4th Heightening and also Awaken things you might have a harder time.

A couple of things: you had said that Vin's Allomancy wasn't disappointing because she needed and could afford the Allomantic buffs she had. A modern person could easily afford unlimited amounts (on the Allomantic scale, measured mostly in flakes) of the metals and so could afford those buffs even more easily than Vin could.

The rest was a response to your comment "When will any combat abilities be useful to us when Plate is just so much better?", which seems to define out any non-combat use of Allomancy. I'm interested in a lot of the non-combat things that Allomancy can do which Plate cannot, and so even though Plate is better for most fighting situations that's not what I value. Even if I were to get the lerasium and also get into a fight, the Allomancy is probably going to be a massive advantage for me, such as when Vin clears out Cett's tower in WoA. Even if we agree that Plate is often better in a fight than Allomancy, Allomancy is still amazingly better than mundane fighting.

And to reiterate, I'm not dunking on the Unoathed Plate and Blade choice. They're awesome, and my childhood dream of being able to shout that it's morphin' time and have super armor appear is very appealing. I'm just explaining why my personal hierarchy of preferences places lerasium above it.

Mmmm yes, but what other things would mistborns be able to do?

And yes, awakening has its problems, but i feel like perma loss isn't that big a deal if your careful, and i would mostly only use it as a copper mind, or smth

[Qianweilian He/him]

12 hours ago, Returned said:

You reach the 4th Heightening, perfect life sense, at 1,000 Breaths (technically, X Breaths since it's not a precise map but approximately 1,000). So at 1,000 Breaths you get the powers up to the 4th threshold.

Oh, I forgot the heightening thresholds, I thought 1k was the Fifth. I would switch my vote to lerasium so I can have stuff like Pewter and Tin.

12 hours ago, Returned said:

even though Plate is better for most fighting situations that's not what I value.

I agree. Mistborn powers would be so much more convenient for general life. Plus, I already have a heron marked blade, so while the Shardblade would be cool (really cool), I don't need a second cool sword.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

I agree. Mistborn powers would be so much more convenient for general life.

How so?

Other than being able to pull things to you I can't think of anything.

With Plate I can easily pick up my car and put it somewhere else.

With plate cutting myself a Christmas tree would take seconds.

Also imagine the jokes I could play by walking up to my friends car, picking it up and moving it.

[DoctaDajman]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

How so?

Other than being able to pull things to you I can't think of anything.

With Plate I can easily pick up my car and put it somewhere else.

With plate cutting myself a Christmas tree would take seconds.

Also imagine the jokes I could play by walking up to my friends car, picking it up and moving it.

Plate was my favorite part of this. But then I thought of a living blade that (in my opinion) is going to be able to shape shift. Oh man. As I ran around looking for a cutter to cut a deck of cards with yesterday (made the kid a magic deck) and just came up snake eyes every time. I have to say having a tiny shardknife would have been so freaking handy in that moment. 

I really want to get into bow making this next year with fiberglass and thinking how much safer my lungs would be if I could cut it with a shardknife instead of saying it and creating fiberglass powder. 

Or when my wife inevitably wants upgrades to the chicken coop... another perfect use for a spren buddy that can shape into whatever tool I need and cut perfectly everytime. As long as I am not working with aluminum it should all be good!  

Did I forget a hammer? Nope. Did I misplace the pliers? Nope. Do I have to carry a Tool bag or have a Tool shed at all? Nope. Got my dope spren pal who will make me what I need when I need it. Do I need extra hands to hoist around that last load of concrete? Nope. Shardplate to the rescue. 

Edited December 25, 2025 by DoctaDajman

[alder24]

On 12/25/2025 at 3:32 AM, Returned said:

Because it's a threshold system. You reach the 4th Heightening, perfect life sense, at 1,000 Breaths (technically, X Breaths since it's not a precise map but approximately 1,000). So at 1,000 Breaths you get the powers up to the 4th threshold. If you Awaken anything you then have 1,000 minus at least one Breath, so at most you then have 999, which is below the 4th Heightening threshold and so you then lose that power

Except the fact that the passive powers granted by Breaths scale up with the amount of Breaths. Sure, at 1000 Breaths you get perfect life sense, but you're not losing your life sense if give up 1 Breath, you're losing just your perfect life sense but you still have like 99.9% of it anyway. Vivenna was able to sense Vasher staring at her even with 600 Breaths. Losing perfect senses is not that big of a downside, you still have most of them.

 

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

With Plate I can easily pick up my car and put it somewhere else.

You will probably damage your car if you try to pick it up and hold its entire mass with just your hands. That's the problem with a Shardplate, you get extreme strength but you also have to be super careful as some things are not strong enough to hold its own weight with such a small contact area of just your hands. Not to mention that a Shardplate weights 600 kg so you can't wear it at home or in a car, even outside the soil might get compressed and leave small holes as you walk, ruining your backyard or cracking your pavement or concrete etc. Shardplate is an amazing tool for physical labor but it has big limitations of which you have to be wary all the time.

[Qianweilian He/him]

18 hours ago, Frustration said:

How so?

Other than being able to pull things to you I can't think of anything.

Pewter and Tin would be nice for everyday life, for obvious reasons. Depending on how you view them ethically, brass and zinc are also invaluable. You wouldn't have to pay for gas nearly as often due to steelpushing. Cadmium is helpful if you are bored and waiting for something. If you can make bendalloy, you could become extremely productive.

[Returned he/him]

On 12/25/2025 at 12:15 AM, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Mmmm yes, but what other things would mistborns be able to do?

And yes, awakening has its problems, but i feel like perma loss isn't that big a deal if your careful, and i would mostly only use it as a copper mind, or smth

Tons! On-demand superior balance, poise, strength, resilience, and healing are all pretty nice, especially when they're non-obvious and have low collateral impact (if I slip on some stairs and burn pewter I'm fine, but if I summon Plate I'm going to be uninjured but also demolish those stairs). I'd be able to move quickly, on the ground or through the air, without destroying the streets/walls/roofs around me to do so. Pewter lets you sprint for longer than Plate will, and also lets you deal with inadequate sleep (if you have to, I wouldn't endorse Vin's mode of use). If I were injured in any way, pewter helps a lot to recover. Sharper senses are handy in a wide variety of situations. If I wanted or needed to sneak around somewhere, or even just not draw attention while doing something, Allomancy offers options while Plate is... less helpful. If I wanted to maintain a "secret identity", or at least not have lots of people know about my super-powered Christmas gift any time I want to use it, Plate presents some difficulties. Iron and steel would be really helpful, or at least convenient, in a lot of tasks, if not critically useful very often. The mobility alone is nice, and is three dimensional. Zinc and brass could certainly be used in unethical ways (and very easily), but I don't think that their use is inherently unethical.

And, importantly, the Allomancy seems a lot more flexible not just in in the spread of powers it offers but the ability to combine and control the intensity or specific effect they have. Creativity and imagination seem like they expand Allomancy more than Unoathed gear to me, though maybe I'm just not being creative nor imaginative enough about the Plate. Living Plate has a lot of potential as well (powered armor that can change shape to suit your needs? Amazing!), but summoning the Plate is an all-or-nothing proposition.

I agree with you that permanent loss of Breaths isn't an especially acute problem, just a risk that the other powers don't have. Especially if you imagine doing superhero-like activities the risk of damage or loss seems like it would increase. If your interest in the Breaths is something that doesn't Invest them in other objects, such as to store memories, then the power looks a lot more valuable-- it costs nothing (as far as we know), risks little, and none of the other powers can imitate it.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Except the fact that the passive powers granted by Breaths scale up with the amount of Breaths. Sure, at 1000 Breaths you get perfect life sense, but you're not losing your life sense if give up 1 Breath, you're losing just your perfect life sense but you still have like 99.9% of it anyway. Vivenna was able to sense Vasher staring at her even with 600 Breaths. Losing perfect senses is not that big of a downside, you still have most of them.

The point of the thresholds is that you lose something, which is the use-of-one-Breath example was meant to highlight, though I'll agree that the first four Heightenings don't suggest such an intense loss from dropping below a given value. The marginal loss view makes the Investment of Breaths even more of an issue because it always costs you something from the passive powers to do any Awakening (no "freebies" between thresholds). More information on the scale of Breaths Awakeners have to use would really help, but I can easily imagine a couple of Awakenings at once using hundreds of Breaths and making the marginal cost much higher than the one-Breath example suggest. Whether or not that loss is a big deal to you is a personal preference around how much you like having the passive powers. I wouldn't turn my nose up at the Breaths, much like the Unoathed gear. But my ordered preference includes this aspect of the Breaths as well, which may not impact others' preferences as much.

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

You will probably damage your car if you try to pick it up and hold its entire mass with just your hands. That's the problem with a Shardplate, you get extreme strength but you also have to be super careful as some things are not strong enough to hold its own weight with such a small contact area of just your hands. Not to mention that a Shardplate weights 600 kg so you can't wear it at home or in a car, even outside the soil might get compressed and leave small holes as you walk, ruining your backyard or cracking your pavement or concrete etc. Shardplate is an amazing tool for physical labor but it has big limitations of which you have to be wary all the time.

My cars frame is pretty solid, you can pull the whole thing by putting a single hook through it. It's not something I can do without being careful that's for sure, but by holding the correct places it would be fine.

As for the weight, yes it's very heavy, not a lot of places where I can use the whole thing. As Kaladin showed however at least Windrunner plate can protect the user even when not fully summoned. And concrete should be just fine. I can give the plate instructions to make the boots wider and distribute my weight over a larger area.