Copperclouds and Shardblades

[Conure1243 He/Him]

Me and my siblings were debating possible answers to the question:

Could a Coppercloud block a Shardblade?

My initial response was probably not block one, but stop one from being summoned? Possibly something like the Suppression Fabrials in Rhythm of War? Perhaps Living Blades are able to exist inside a Cloud?

Or maybe none of those.

I figured I'd bring this to the Sharders to get more input. Let me know what you think!

[Treamayne]

On 12/21/2025 at 8:52 PM, Conure1243 said:

Could a Coppercloud block a Shardblade?

Well, part of that depends on what is meant by "block a shardblade."

Block, as in Parry?
Unlikely. Copperclouds exist in Shadesmar and interact with kinetic investiture operating in the Cognitive Realm and trainsition to/from the Cognitive Realm. 

Block, as in "prevent summoning" - then the follow on quesiton becomes is it a Living blade or a Dead blade? A Living Shardblade, the spren is already in the Physical Realm and is just undergoing a state change from incorpreal investiture into physical matter investiture (godmetal) - but is not crossing realms. However, a Deadblade, the spren is in the Cognitive Realm and the Bond process links the Shardbearer's life (heartbeat) to the BladeSpren to help it cross into the Physical Realm and manifest as a Shardblade. It may be possible for a Coppercloud to interact with this process, but we do not have any definitive WoBs on the subject. The WoBs we do have:

Spoiler

Quote

Rasarr

Could a Seeker detect a Shardbearer? For example, could Vin detect Adolin's Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

That detects Kinetic Investiture, Investiture that's being used actively, so in the summoning process, you'd probably get a blip on that, but not just looking at someone and seeing it.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

So, if Bronze is able to detect a Shardblade Summoning, and we know Copper can affect Bronze, then it may be possible that a Coppercloud may inpact or prevent summing a Blade inside the Coppercloud

Quote

Keeper Exile

Would a Coppercloud at all affect how spren act?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

If a Coppercloud impacts how Spren behave inside the cloud, that adds t othe argument that it may interact with summoning a Shardblade.

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory
Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

Likewise, if a Coppercloud can prevent a Singer from hearing Rhythms, then it may also hinder a Shardblade Summoning. 

Hope that helps

Edited December 23, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Frustration]

It definitely could not block a shardblade, copper is way too low power.

 

Now could it stop a shardblade from being summoned? I don't think so, and the reason is that Copper doesn't stop someone from using Allomancy, just from being able to detect what happens inside of it, only the coppercloud themselves has protection against emotional allomancy.

[bmcclure7]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

It definitely could not block a shardblade, copper is way too low power.

 

Now could it stop a shardblade from being summoned? I don't think so, and the reason is that Copper doesn't stop someone from using Allomancy, just from being able to detect what happens inside of it, only the coppercloud themselves has protection against emotional allomancy.

You have no proof of this you just asserting it as if it were true we have no reason to believe that you need a lot of power to block a shard blade summoning

[DoctaDajman]

20 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

You have no proof of this you just asserting it as if it were true we have no reason to believe that you need a lot of power to block a shard blade summoning

He has as much proof as there is to assert that a coppercloud could stop it. There is a lot of proof that copperclouds hide things and dont stop or block them.  Heck copperclouds dont even stop the use of bronze. You can seek as much as you want while a coppercloud is going. You just wont hear anything. 

I think @Treamayne answered with some solid reasoning to what could or could not be blocked. I agree with him that the deadeye blade may not be able to hear the summoning attempt where a living blade is already on the same realm and it would have less effect. 

In fact I think that Syl shows us that she has a ton of control over her blade forms and states in WoR. She seems to be calling out what she needs to become as Kaladin is needing it. 

In the case of an Unoathed... if the spren recognizes the users need I am sure they will just do it. 

 

[bmcclure7]

Just now, DoctaDajman said:

He has as much proof as there is to assert that a coppercloud could stop it. There is a lot of proof that copperclouds hide things and dont stop or block them.  Heck copperclouds dont even stop the use of bronze. You can seek as much as you want while a coppercloud is going. You just wont hear anything. 

I think @Treamayne answered with some solid reasoning to what could or could not be blocked. I agree with him that the deadeye blade may not be able to hear the summoning attempt where a living blade is already on the same realm and it would have less effect. 

In fact I think that Syl shows us that she has a ton of control over her blade forms and states in WoR. She seems to be calling out what she needs to become as Kaladin is needing it. 

In the case of an Unoathed... if the spren recognizes the users need I am sure they will just do it. 

 

1. If they just block things then they wouldn’t have an effect on spren . But we have wobs that’s say otherwise.

 

2. Based on what we can see of the technology and era 4 via emberdark there seems to be a strong indication that it does a lot more than just hide.

 

3. Even if we’re going by the information alone from Mistborn Weecee copper clouds block emotional alomancy that’s got nothing to do with hiding

[DoctaDajman]

15 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. If they just block things then they wouldn’t have an effect on spren . But we have wobs that’s say otherwise.

 

2. Based on what we can see of the technology and era 4 via emberdark there seems to be a strong indication that it does a lot more than just hide.

 

3. Even if we’re going by the information alone from Mistborn Weecee copper clouds block emotional alomancy that’s got nothing to do with hiding

I believe we have seen copperclouds block it for the user... not projected outwardly to block it for others. 

And with living plate and blade it likely doesnt matter because the spren is in the physical realm. It would be like saying a coppercloud stops a squad of hazekillers from communicating and being effective at working together. 

The spren is already in the physical. 

[bmcclure7]

1 minute ago, DoctaDajman said:

I believe we have seen copperclouds block it for the user... not projected outwardly to block it for others. 

And with living plate and blade it likely doesnt matter because the spren is in the physical realm. It would be like saying a coppercloud stops a squad of hazekillers from communicating and being effective at working together. 

The spren is already in the physical. 

1. What are you talking about? They create bubbles that protect other people that’s demonstrated several times, including when they’re trying to fight against the Lord rulers alomancy

 

2. Again, they would only be in the physical if they are already summoned

Edited December 23, 2025 by bmcclure7

[DoctaDajman]

3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. What are you talking about? They create bubbles that protect other people that’s demonstrated several times, including when they’re trying to fight against the Lord rulers alomancy

 

2. Again, they would only be in the physical if they are already summoned

Living blades are just spren who are chilling in the physical realm all the time and have the ability to turn into a blade. Syl isnt just chilling in the cognitive whispering to Kaladin's mind. She is all over the map and can appear instantly into his hand when needed. 

Could you provide any quotes of copperclouds being used?  We are remembering copperclouds quite differently. Remember the basic coppercloud can already be pierced by a misting with hemalurgy. Spren are far more invested than that. 

This shows that a very skilled coppercloud may be able to shield others from zinc and brass but it is not the normal user. 

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Also speaking of continutiy...

Brandon Sanderson

Uh oh. 

Questioner

This is a very very minor spoiler. It's just a statement that was made in Alloy of Law, that Smokers could...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah, that was just a typo

Questioner

Is that going to change things?

Brandon Sanderson

Wait, go ahead and say it.

Questioner

Can Copperclouds shield others' emotions?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh okay. Did we put that in Alloy of Law in the Ars Arcanum? Is that where you read it?

Questioner

I forget. I don't remember where it is.

Brandon Sanderson

I believe it’s in the Ars Arcanum, which in Alloy of Law was put together by Peter. And that’s mostly a mistake, though the thing is the Role Playing Game came to me and said “Is it feasible that this could happen?” And I said “It’s perhaps feasible, but only a very rare individual could make this work if they knew exactly what they were doing.” And so I said “Yeah, go ahead, but make it a power that someone really has to know what they’re doing to make it work.” And so they put it in, and so Peter assumed that it was canon, that anyone can do it, but that’s not what I intended.

Questioner

So would it be easier to say that somebody discovered they could do it and now they are training copperclouds to do it?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that it is viable that someone could figure it out, but it would be a very difficult thing to train, and it is not a common Coppercloud—A common Coppercloud isn’t going to be able to be doing it, and almost no Mistborn will ever be capable of doing it, they just don’t focus on that metal enough to learn it. Of course, there aren’t Mistborn around anymore. So it is a possible power, it is plausible, but it is not the standard. Perhaps I will allow it to become the standard eventually, but it’s not right now. It would be much easier to wear a tinfoil hat. (laughter) Aluminum, aluminum. Which does work.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/233/#e6884

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bmcclure7]

22 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

Living blades are just spren who are chilling in the physical realm all the time and have the ability to turn into a blade. Syl isnt just chilling in the cognitive whispering to Kaladin's mind. She is all over the map and can appear instantly into his hand when needed. 

Could you provide any quotes of copperclouds being used?  We are remembering copperclouds quite differently. Remember the basic coppercloud can already be pierced by a misting with hemalurgy. Spren are far more invested than that. 

This shows that a very skilled coppercloud may be able to shield others from zinc and brass but it is not the normal user. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Also speaking of continutiy...

Brandon Sanderson

Uh oh. 

Questioner

This is a very very minor spoiler. It's just a statement that was made in Alloy of Law, that Smokers could...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah, that was just a typo

Questioner

Is that going to change things?

Brandon Sanderson

Wait, go ahead and say it.

Questioner

Can Copperclouds shield others' emotions?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh okay. Did we put that in Alloy of Law in the Ars Arcanum? Is that where you read it?

Questioner

I forget. I don't remember where it is.

Brandon Sanderson

I believe it’s in the Ars Arcanum, which in Alloy of Law was put together by Peter. And that’s mostly a mistake, though the thing is the Role Playing Game came to me and said “Is it feasible that this could happen?” And I said “It’s perhaps feasible, but only a very rare individual could make this work if they knew exactly what they were doing.” And so I said “Yeah, go ahead, but make it a power that someone really has to know what they’re doing to make it work.” And so they put it in, and so Peter assumed that it was canon, that anyone can do it, but that’s not what I intended.

Questioner

So would it be easier to say that somebody discovered they could do it and now they are training copperclouds to do it?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that it is viable that someone could figure it out, but it would be a very difficult thing to train, and it is not a common Coppercloud—A common Coppercloud isn’t going to be able to be doing it, and almost no Mistborn will ever be capable of doing it, they just don’t focus on that metal enough to learn it. Of course, there aren’t Mistborn around anymore. So it is a possible power, it is plausible, but it is not the standard. Perhaps I will allow it to become the standard eventually, but it’s not right now. It would be much easier to wear a tinfoil hat. (laughter) Aluminum, aluminum. Which does work.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/233/#e6884

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The spren can do that because of their bond, but unoathed have a completely different type of bond. We have never seen a unoathed spren in the physical realm except for as a shard blade or plate.

 

The very fact, though that they can do it demonstrate that copper does more than just hide

Edited December 23, 2025 by bmcclure7

[DoctaDajman]

2 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

The spren can do that because of their bond, but unoathed have a completely different type of bond. We have never seen a unoathed spren in the physical realm except for as a shard blade or plate.

 

The very fact, though that they can do it demonstrate that copper does more than just hide

Perhaps this should be taken more to the unoathed vs mistborn. I would say, however that speculation works both ways when looking at these things. Unfortunately, speculation can rather quickly spiral out of control and turn into not kind ways of examining these theoretical vs battles. 

I haven't read the scenes with unoathed. All I know about them is what I have read here. That is that the shards are living again.  

I assume that the 10 seconds necessary for summoning is the spren passing from the cognitive to physical. Living blades summon instantly because they already exist in the realm.

That could be wrong but it is as speculative as assuming a coppercloud can stop a blade from summoning in the first place. Speculation alone. 

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

You have no proof of this you just asserting it as if it were true we have no reason to believe that you need a lot of power to block a shard blade summoning

If you would ask for my citations I am more than happy to provide.

Copper is the weakest of all Allomantic metals

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

The longest lasting of the Allomantic metals is actually copper, which is used by Smokers to hide Allomancy. Tin is second, however. Steel and Iron are actually rather quick, but since they're generally used in bursts, it's hard to notice. Both brass and zinc are medium, as is bronze. Pewter burns the fastest of the basic eight, though atium and gold both burn faster than it does.

In my mind, it's related to how much 'work' the metal has to do. That's why pewter, steel, and iron burn so quickly. A lot of weight and power is getting thrown around, while copper only has to do something simple. However, I never really set any of these things hard-fast.

And, only atium is really all that rare. Because of the value of the metals, the noble houses expended a lot of resources finding and exploiting mines to produce the metals. This resulted in a slightly higher value for most of them as opposed to our world, but not really noticeably so, because Allomancers really don't need that much metal. Even fast burning metals, like pewter, are generally only swallowed in very small amounts. (i.e. A small bit goes a long way.)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291/#e7820

 

 

 

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. If they just block things then they wouldn’t have an effect on spren . But we have wobs that’s say otherwise.

Spren can hear the pure tones of Roshar, copperclouds would stop that. That's an affect.

We can see this even with the tuning forks, the spren in Gemstones are attracted to them, that's an affect.

Neither of those however would stop a shardblade from being summoned.

Edited December 23, 2025 by Frustration

[Immortal Platypus]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

via emberdark

careful using info from emberdark, it's not allowed here without spoilers. (at least, I don't think the spoiler period is up yet)

[bmcclure7]

30 minutes ago, Immortal Platypus said:

careful using info from emberdark, it's not allowed here without spoilers. (at least, I don't think the spoiler period is up yet)

Wasn’t certain which is why I didn’t elaborate

 

 

 

[DoctaDajman]

12 hours ago, Frustration said:

If you would ask for my citations I am more than happy to provide.

Copper is the weakest of all Allomantic metals

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

The longest lasting of the Allomantic metals is actually copper, which is used by Smokers to hide Allomancy. Tin is second, however. Steel and Iron are actually rather quick, but since they're generally used in bursts, it's hard to notice. Both brass and zinc are medium, as is bronze. Pewter burns the fastest of the basic eight, though atium and gold both burn faster than it does.

In my mind, it's related to how much 'work' the metal has to do. That's why pewter, steel, and iron burn so quickly. A lot of weight and power is getting thrown around, while copper only has to do something simple. However, I never really set any of these things hard-fast.

And, only atium is really all that rare. Because of the value of the metals, the noble houses expended a lot of resources finding and exploiting mines to produce the metals. This resulted in a slightly higher value for most of them as opposed to our world, but not really noticeably so, because Allomancers really don't need that much metal. Even fast burning metals, like pewter, are generally only swallowed in very small amounts. (i.e. A small bit goes a long way.)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291/#e7820

 

 

 

Spren can hear the pure tones of Roshar, copperclouds would stop that. That's an affect.

We can see this even with the tuning forks, the spren in Gemstones are attracted to them, that's an affect.

Neither of those however would stop a shardblade from being summoned.

 

13 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

The spren can do that because of their bond, but unoathed have a completely different type of bond. We have never seen a unoathed spren in the physical realm except for as a shard blade or plate.

 

The very fact, though that they can do it demonstrate that copper does more than just hide

I am not sure of this but just heard on the Shardcast for Unoathed that Adolin summoned his plate while in an aluminum box, being the throne room.  

 

If this is true then I would say that absolutely dispells any idea that a coppercloud could stop it.  If aluminum doesnt stop the summoning of shards I cant imagine the weakest of allomantic metal uses would. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

Question, what do we think about Allomantic copper hiding a Mistborn from the senses of an Unoathed/Radiant's Plate and Blade Spren?

[Treamayne]

35 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

I am not sure of this but just heard on the Shardcast for Unoathed that Adolin summoned his plate while in an aluminum box, being the throne room.  

Adolin "summoned" his plate that was in the same metal box with him - because it was being worn by Abidi when Adolin took it back. Yes, the throne room was surrounded by Aluminum, but the plate was not separated from Adolin by Aluminum. . . 

[DoctaDajman]

9 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Adolin "summoned" his plate that was in the same metal box with him - because it was being worn by Abidi when Adolin took it back. Yes, the throne room was surrounded by Aluminum, but the plate was not separated from Adolin by Aluminum. . . 

I see. Thanks for that. 

Another thought, if there is a bonding of some kind between shards and the user how close is it to other bonds? 

I am sure that Vin, Zane, Wax, or even Marsh were able to maintain the ability to hear ruin through a spike while in a coppercloud as well. 

I know ruin is a Shard and significantly invested as such but I wonder if the bond exists it would probably still exist within a coppercloud no? 

Do we see any radiants or unoathed, or any shardbearer for that matter summon a blade at all from within the room? 

I dont think that not being able to summon from within an aluminum box necessarily equates to mean you cant within a coppercloud but if it happened I would say it absolutely shows you can within a coppercloud. 

[Treamayne]

On 12/23/2025 at 9:59 AM, DoctaDajman said:

I am sure that Vin, Zane, Wax, or even Marsh were able to maintain the ability to hear ruin through a spike while in a coppercloud as well. 

Coppercloud has no bearing on this - Ruin is in the Spiritual Realm and is "talking" to the Cracks in the Spiritweb, also in the Spiritual Realm. The Cognitive Realm (where Brass, Bronze, Zinc and Copper take effect) has no part in it. 

Edit: The known WoBs I could find are here - but the answer has not changed. We do not know and Brandon expects to cover interactions like this in Mistborn Era 3. Speculation is speculation; there is no definitive answer yet. 

Edited December 28, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG, Clarification

[Immortal Platypus]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Question, what do we think about Allomantic copper hiding a Mistborn from the senses of an Unoathed/Radiant's Plate and Blade Spren?

I like that idea, it's something I could absolutely see Brandon doing. Does it fit perfectly, mechanically? I don't think so, but I'm no coppercloud expert.

[Conure1243 He/Him]

9 hours ago, DoctaDajman said:

I am not sure of this but just heard on the Shardcast for Unoathed that Adolin summoned his plate while in an aluminum box, being the throne room.  

 

If this is true then I would say that absolutely dispells any idea that a coppercloud could stop it.  If aluminum doesnt stop the summoning of shards I cant imagine the weakest of allomantic metal uses would. 

Makes sense, except Aluminum has its own effects on allomancy, so while this example could be relevant, it may not be the same as copper.

A coppercloud doesn't exactly prevent allomancy, but it does hide signals of it, meaning it could hide the fact that a Shardblade has been summoned, (As previously mentioned). Somebody who is burning copper is immune to emotional allomancy, does that mean they can't be affected by a shardblade? Can prevent their limbs from being killed by a Blade? (I don't think either of those are the case.)

Somebody who has easier access to RoW, could you remind me which metal is used in the suppression fabrial? (Assuming it specifies?) Is it aluminum or something else?

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Conure1243 said:

Somebody who has easier access to RoW, could you remind me which metal is used in the suppression fabrial? (Assuming it specifies?) Is it aluminum or something else?

RoW Epigraphs - Ch 10:

Spoiler

"A tin cage will cause the fabrial to diminish nearby attributes. A painrial, for example, can numb pain. Note that advanced designs of cages can use both steel and iron as well, changing the fabrial’s polarity depending on which metals are pushed to touch the gemstone."

 

2 hours ago, Conure1243 said:

A coppercloud doesn't exactly prevent allomancy, but it does hide signals of it, meaning it could hide the fact that a Shardblade has been summoned, (As previously mentioned). Somebody who is burning copper is immune to emotional allomancy, does that mean they can't be affected by a shardblade? Can prevent their limbs from being killed by a Blade? (I don't think either of those are the case.)

Unlikely. Shardblades cut in the Spiritual Realm, Copper protects your Cognitive Identity in Shadesmar. WoB:

Spoiler

Edited for Length and Relevance

Phantine

Does that 'inside a body' thing work on most magics?

For instance, if Han stuck Luke into a Mistborn Tauntaun (a distant and unlucky relative of the mistborn llama), would Luke be protected from both the cold and emotional allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

He'd have to get him inside a living one.

It does work on most magics, though the interactions can be odd unless you know a lot about the workings. Emotional Allomancy, for example, works by lapping against the outsides of someone's cognitive self, influencing you the way music might stir your soul. So being inside a living body wouldn't necessarily stop it--you'd just have more interference. Kind of like how you can still hear music outside if it's loud enough.

Actual mind control in the cosmere requires you to get INSIDE the soul, which you've seen happen frequently enough. There has to be a gap or an opening.

Or, conversely, you just have to be so powerful that you can push through the interference.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

Hope that helps

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Conure1243 said:

Somebody who has easier access to RoW, could you remind me which metal is used in the suppression fabrial? (Assuming it specifies?) Is it aluminum or something else?

The metal in suppression fabrials are made from spren, it doesn't map to any Allomantic metal

[Aliroz-The-Confused]

I know that copperclouds don't disperse Shardblades and Shardplate, but it would be really cool if they did.  It would also be cool if emotional allomancy wasn't blocked by shardplate.  It would also be really cool if tin allowed you to see through lightweaving illusions.

Unfortunately, allomancy isn't allowed to be cool and every update since 2009 has made it less cool.

I'm honestly worried for the sequel to Elantris, and how it might diminish the Dor.

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said:

Unfortunately, allomancy isn't allowed to be cool and every update since 2009 has made it less cool.

Hey the W.a-T balance patch nerfed the Rosharan builds into the ground, and the Gb1 update looks to massively overhaul the Scadrian toolkit.