Would the U.S. Army be able to take over Era 1 Scadrial

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

Ok I got this idea from @TheFlatScadrian’s  post about whether the U.S. could take over Roshar. 
 

Anyways for this discussion we will be assuming that everyone including the inquisitors and kolossos and all the “bad guys” are working together to fight off the U.S. we will also be assuming that the lord ruler decides not to share his knowledge of all the metals so people can use the fourteen metals known at the end of book 3 of era one minus the two god metals. For the sake of this discussion the U.S. will “spawn” (via a conventional portal) in the southern depths also no nukes and no shards.

Edited November 30, 2025 by Ookla The Vessel Of Honor

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

1 hour ago, Ookla The Vessel Of Honor said:

Ok I got this idea from @TheFlatScadrian’s  post about whether the U.S. could take over Roshar. 
 

Anyways for this discussion we will be assuming that everyone including the inquisitors and kolossos and all the “bad guys” are working together to fight off the U.S. we will also be assuming that the lord ruler decides not to share his knowledge of all the metals so people can use the fourteen metals known at the end of book 3 of era one minus lerasium and malatium. For the sake of this discussion the U.S. will “spawn” (via a conventional portal) in the southern depths also no nukes and no shards.

Push back the missiles and bullets.

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

26 minutes ago, Ookla the Hoppy said:

Push back the missiles and bullets.

Coat the outsides with aluminum

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

1 hour ago, Ookla The Vessel Of Honor said:

Coat the outsides with aluminum

Atium dodge all the bullets.

Or, Soothe the army's feelings of determination and/or anger. Riot their fear and hunger. 

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Hoppy said:

Atium dodge all the bullets.

Or, Soothe the army's feelings of determination and/or anger. Riot their fear and hunger. 

I feel like the Lord Ruler alone could stop the entire army, if they spawned in a single area

Just duralumin Soothe everyone, then tap steel and pewter and burn atium, Scadrians win.

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Hoppy said:

Atium dodge all the bullets.

Or, Soothe the army's feelings of determination and/or anger. Riot their fear and hunger. 

Sorry wait lemme edit the original post I meant to say no god metals bc like if they had atium or lerasium it would be entirely unfair 

but yes the soothing and rioting would work rly well i think

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

37 minutes ago, Ookla The Vessel Of Honor said:

Sorry wait lemme edit the original post I meant to say no god metals bc like if they had atium or lerasium it would be entirely unfair 

but yes the soothing and rioting would work rly well i think

What would duralumin rioting fear do?

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Just now, Ookla the Hoppy said:

What would duralumin rioting fear do?

The entire army runs back through the portal

Scadrians Win

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

yahhh lol I think it’d be harder for the scadrians to lose honestly loll

[Argenti he/him]

26 minutes ago, Ookla the Tachyon said:

The entire army runs back through the portal

Scadrians Win

So yet again, the giant aluminum hulls of the boats and planes would likely cause some issues. 
not to say the average foot soldier wouldn't run in terror, but when it only effects people not indoors, the US military would be rather suspect. 

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

1 minute ago, Ookla The Silver said:

So yet again, the giant aluminum hulls of the boats and planes would likely cause some issues. 
not to say the average foot soldier wouldn't run in terror, but when it only effects people not indoors, the US military would be rather suspect. 

But everyone else would run first

And some folk's first instinct would be to go outside to see what's going on, so they too will run

TLR can solo everyone left with compound steel, pewter and tin

[Argenti he/him]

13 minutes ago, Ookla the Tachyon said:

But everyone else would run first

And some folk's first instinct would be to go outside to see what's going on, so they too will run

TLR can solo everyone left with compound steel, pewter and tin

Possibly- but the lord ruler might also let them win. 

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Just now, Ookla The Silver said:

Possibly- but the lord ruler might also let them win. 

But he'll still want an Empire

Wait until the last possible moment, then sit in Kredik Shaw while the Inquisitors do all the work

All the soldiers just get sent to plantations

OR he waits till the US wins

Then kill all their leadership

Takes control of the armies

Walks through the portal and names himself Lord Ruler of both Scadrial and Earth

[Argenti he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Tachyon said:

But he'll still want an Empire

Wait until the last possible moment, then sit in Kredik Shaw while the Inquisitors do all the work

All the soldiers just get sent to plantations

OR he waits till the US wins

Then kill all their leadership

Takes control of the armies

Walks through the portal and names himself Lord Ruler of both Scadrial and Earth

I mean he let Vin kill him. 

 

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

Just now, Ookla the Tachyon said:

But he'll still want an Empire

Wait until the last possible moment, then sit in Kredik Shaw while the Inquisitors do all the work

All the soldiers just get sent to plantations

OR he waits till the US wins

Then kill all their leadership

Takes control of the armies

Walks through the portal and names himself Lord Ruler of both Scadrial and Earth

"So... You're the 'Supreme Ruler of the Earth's and you want me to...sell you tin?"

"Indeed...and Atium"

"Uh huh"

[Returned he/him]

Should we be more specific in what we mean by "take over"?

I think that, in contrast to the Rosharan version of this idea, era 1 Scadrial has some much more severe limitations. Their industrial capacity is extremely limited (by design), their military seems relatively inexperienced (so not just low-tech but also maybe not flexible in responding to the invaders), the geography seems more compact and the terrain less forbidding even as food production requires a lot more land and labor (so it's easier for invaders to move around and they can dynamically choose weak points in the Scadrian economic production chain), the feudal power structure provides for a lot of weak links and potential traitors, and the entire socio-economic-political structure of Scadrial is based on bureaucracy (which does an awful lot of the day-to-day work of ruling and can be commandeered) and oppression (so one ruling group imposed on everyone is similar to any other).

For all of the metallic arts' potential I don't think that they have much ability to imitate, frustrate, or counter a contemporary military as some other magic systems. Especially in era 1 they are primarily about "deluxe" individuals: the innate nature of being an Allomancer/Feruchemist makes them impossible to replace but their powers don't seem to me that they'd give all that devastating an advantage against guns and missiles. Soothing and rioting might be effective, but it seems hard to me: the allomancers have a range problem, broad emotions seem difficult to use to any effect, and aluminum helmets would be very practical and effective for such a narrow risk (if the invaders learned about their efficacy). Feruchemy is amazing but storing sufficient amounts of attributes takes a long time. Mistborn are dangerous but very rare and can be outthought (like Yomen with Vin) or eventually overwhelmed. Hemalurgy probably isn't much help against non-Cosmere people since it's the same as just stabbing them.

Koloss are devastating but killable even by regular people, if not easily. I think they're not going to fare well against sustained gunfire. Kandra would make amazing infiltrators but what would they be able to accomplish? Stealing materiel to outfit Scadrians might be good and help even the scales a bit, assassinating leaders might be effective, and they could get excellent (perfect?) intelligence on invader movements and plans, even subverting them. I think that the Kandra would be Scadrial's greatest edge.

So I think that Scadrial is uniquely vulnerable to invasion and devastation, has limited ability to respond to a modern military, has a competitive power structure that makes collaborators easy to find, and already has an impersonal system that keeps the masses oppressed by leadership. Scadrial's assets seem ill-suited to counter soldiers in the field but could probably cripple the invaders through disinformation, intelligence-gathering, impersonation, and assassination of leaders. If Scadrial can win I would think it would come down to the Kandra.

As others have noted above, the Lord Ruler changes this situation entirely. With compounding he can devastate the invaders more quickly than they can react, and can personally achieve brilliance and insight eclipsing anything the invaders could muster while recording every detail of his thinking flawlessly down to the most minute details.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

6 minutes ago, Returned said:

Should we be more specific in what we mean by "take over"?

I think that, in contrast to the Rosharan version of this idea, era 1 Scadrial has some much more severe limitations. Their industrial capacity is extremely limited (by design), their military seems relatively inexperienced (so not just low-tech but also maybe not flexible in responding to the invaders), the geography seems more compact and the terrain less forbidding even as food production requires a lot more land and labor (so it's easier for invaders to move around and they can dynamically choose weak points in the Scadrian economic production chain), the feudal power structure provides for a lot of weak links and potential traitors, and the entire socio-economic-political structure of Scadrial is based on bureaucracy (which does an awful lot of the day-to-day work of ruling and can be commandeered) and oppression (so one ruling group imposed on everyone is similar to any other).

For all of the metallic arts' potential I don't think that they have much ability to imitate, frustrate, or counter a contemporary military as some other magic systems. Especially in era 1 they are primarily about "deluxe" individuals: the innate nature of being an Allomancer/Feruchemist makes them impossible to replace but their powers don't seem to me that they'd give all that devastating an advantage against guns and missiles. Soothing and rioting might be effective, but it seems hard to me: the allomancers have a range problem, broad emotions seem difficult to use to any effect, and aluminum helmets would be very practical and effective for such a narrow risk (if the invaders learned about their efficacy). Feruchemy is amazing but storing sufficient amounts of attributes takes a long time. Mistborn are dangerous but very rare and can be outthought (like Yomen with Vin) or eventually overwhelmed. Hemalurgy probably isn't much help against non-Cosmere people since it's the same as just stabbing them.

Koloss are devastating but killable even by regular people, if not easily. I think they're not going to fare well against sustained gunfire. Kandra would make amazing infiltrators but what would they be able to accomplish? Stealing materiel to outfit Scadrians might be good and help even the scales a bit, assassinating leaders might be effective, and they could get excellent (perfect?) intelligence on invader movements and plans, even subverting them. I think that the Kandra would be Scadrial's greatest edge.

So I think that Scadrial is uniquely vulnerable to invasion and devastation, has limited ability to respond to a modern military, has a competitive power structure that makes collaborators easy to find, and already has an impersonal system that keeps the masses oppressed by leadership. Scadrial's assets seem ill-suited to counter soldiers in the field but could probably cripple the invaders through disinformation, intelligence-gathering, impersonation, and assassination of leaders. If Scadrial can win I would think it would come down to the Kandra.

As others have noted above, the Lord Ruler changes this situation entirely. With compounding he can devastate the invaders more quickly than they can react, and can personally achieve brilliance and insight eclipsing anything the invaders could muster while recording every detail of his thinking flawlessly down to the most minute details.

It is worth to note that those with no investiture can still be spiked with such, and some hemalurgy doesn't require investiture, only an attribute it turns into investiture.

TL;DR 5 kidnapped US Army soldiers + some metal = 1 more koloss

Edited November 30, 2025 by Ookla the Dokja

[TheFlatScadrian]

Or we just send a single GBU-43/B "MOAB" in on a MC-130 and wipe Luthadel off the map. And airstrike or artillery barrage the Koloss and Allomancers from so far away the little blue line created by an F/A-18 doesn't even appear in their vision. Even Atium can't predict a bullet fast enough to dodge it.

I actually did some math once. An Allomancer steel-pushing a tank round, if they could even generate enough force to do so, would kill them instantly, because of force transfer.

And @Ookla The Vessel Of Honor, thank you for perpetuating my crazy ideas! 

(Here's that math: 

Quote

F = (M x V) / T so...

(10kg x 1555m/s) / ~0.1sec ("Near-instantaneous" as described in-world, smaller times yield bigger results. 0.01 seconds is slightly more accurate, but also... insane.) = 155,500N.

Assuming a human is 80kg, that's a = F/M or...

155,500 / 80 = 1943.75 m/s squared, or (a/9.8, which is gravity) 198.31 G's. 

That's like having the entire weight of an aircraft carrier anchor dropped on a single point, or, you know, an Allomancer's gut.

This is where the term "Pink Mist" comes into play. Besides, that sudden stop sends the kinetic forces (approx. 12 MJ, for an M829A3 tank round) into the surrounding air and into the round itself... which happens to be made of depleted uranium (DU), causing a "dirty-bomb" explosion approximating a little under 3kg of C4.

Or in other words, the Allomancer becomes truly born on the mist, the tank round goes full Honor, and everyone nearby is concussed/blinded/deafened/coated in radioactive dust (cancer, the real killer) or human detritus. And if that Allomancer used an anchor, like a building, well, that building doesn't exist anymore.

 

Edited December 1, 2025 by TheFlatScadrian

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

5 hours ago, TheFlatScadrian said:

Or we just send a single GBU-43/B "MOAB" in on a MC-130 and wipe Luthadel off the map. And airstrike or artillery barrage the Koloss and Allomancers from so far away the little blue line created by an F/A-18 doesn't even appear in their vision. Even Atium can't predict a bullet fast enough to dodge it.

I actually did some math once. An Allomancer steel-pushing a tank round, if they could even generate enough force to do so, would kill them instantly, because of force transfer.

And @Ookla The Vessel Of Honor, thank you for perpetuating my crazy ideas! 

(Here's that math: 

 

But TLR would live

Right?

Maybe?

He can duralumin-steelpush whilst tapping weight, strength, balance and healing

[TheFlatScadrian]

Possibly. But TLR using a duralumin steelpush could actually generate even more force than I calculated was necessary (with the maximum "instant" time-frame of 0.1 seconds)... and duralumin doesn't negate force transfer. And the other stuff? That's assuming his bands aren't annihilated, or at least ripped off. He might survive the initial impact, but he'd suddenly be under 155,500 Newtons without duralumin, which is a speed of... 

Dang. Assuming he's 160kg, about 98m/s without duralumin. With it? Who knows? And without his metals, I assume his landing to be, you know, a sudden and devastating stop at similar or greater G's, which would be... bad.

Have you ever heard the term "massive catastrophic failure"? Apply that to a human body.

Or, of course, we could just use incendiary bombs (or way to much C4), which would melt the metal right off and then kill him.

Edited December 1, 2025 by TheFlatScadrian

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

3 minutes ago, TheFlatScadrian said:

Possibly. But TLR using a duralumin steelpush could actually generate even more force than I calculated was necessary (with the maximum "instant" time-frame of 0.1 seconds)... and duralumin doesn't negate force transfer. And the other stuff? That's assuming his bands aren't annihilated, or at least ripped off. He might survive the initial impact, but he'd suddenly be under 198 G's without duralumin, which is a speed of... 

Dang. Assuming he's 80kg, about 194 meters a second without duralumin. With it? Who knows? And without his metals, I assume his landing to be, you know, a sudden and devastating stop at similar or greater G's, which would be... bad.

Have you ever heard the term "massive catastrophic failure"? Apply that to a human body.

Or, of course, we could just use incendiary bombs (or way to much C4), which would melt the metal right off and then kill him.

Quote

I don't think the physics of steelpushing actually hold up. I mean, almost any standard coin would sublimate before generating the force necessary to lift a person into the air, simply because of large the difference in mass. 

 

[TheFlatScadrian]

True. So either you die spectacularly because the tank round impacts and turns you into an aerosol, or you die spectacularly because the tank round doesn't impact and you still get turned into an aerosol. 

Because of mass difference, a steel-pusher could theoretically change the speed and stop a tank round (They're only about 10kg), but I seriously doubt it'd be possible through any conventional means, outside of maybe Elend burning duralumin after swallowing a brick of steel. It's just funny to imagine somebody exploding because they steel-pushed a tank round, and frankly, it's always my biggest argument against "Steel-push/Iron-pull against X projectile". It's really not that powerful in the face of such tremendous forces.

[Returned he/him]

1 hour ago, TheFlatScadrian said:

It's just funny to imagine somebody exploding because they steel-pushed a tank round, and frankly, it's always my biggest argument against "Steel-push/Iron-pull against X projectile". It's really not that powerful in the face of such tremendous forces.

Unless they have Feruchemical iron...

[TheFlatScadrian]

How heavy can you actually get? It’d have to be under 200%, right?

[Myst He/Him]

5 minutes ago, TheFlatScadrian said:

How heavy can you actually get? It’d have to be under 200%, right?

Well, if the ground can no longer support you and it’s starts cracking, I’d say that’s a sign of the upper limit. It doesn’t matter if yuu out could theoretically tap infinite weight if it would turn you into a black hole for doing so