Do you think Taln could've resisted Ruin?

[Highprince645343]

If Taln had been been spiked and left in the same situation as Marsh, do you think his will could've overcome Ruin? He never broke to Odium's torture which makes me think he could, but for how long and to what extent?

[Treamayne]

13 hours ago, Highprince645343 said:

If Taln had been been spiked and left in the same situation as Marsh, do you think his will could've overcome Ruin? He never broke to Odium's torture which makes me think he could, but for how long and to what extent?

There are more pieces to the puzzle than just Taln and Marsh though. Taln is a Cognitive Shadow Connected to a Splinter of Honor (his Honorblade). Also, you say "spiked" but do you mean as many Spikes as Marsh had? A full set of Inquisitor Spikes? Keep in mind that more spikes means deeper control is possible too. The question cannot really be answered based on so little information, because we don't know how being a CS would affect the situation and we don't know how the Splinter affects it either (or, even, if it does affect anything).   

So, on the surface - could mortal Taln before his first death or becoming a Herald have resisted Ruin with a full set of inquisitor spikes? Unlikely. It's not about willpower it's about the number and kind of cracks in the spiritweb caused by the Hemalurgy and I think what we saw from Marsh is a best-case scenario. 

Edited November 24, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Highprince645343]

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

There are more pieces to the puzzle than just Taln and Marsh though. Taln is a Cognitive Shadow Connected to a Splinter of Honor (his Honorblade). Also, you say "spiked" but do you mean as many Spikes as Marsh had? A full set of Inquisitor Spikes? Keep in mind that more spikes means deeper control is possible too. The question cannot really be answered based on so little information, because we don't know how being a CS would affect the situation and we don't know how the Splinter affects it either (or, even, if it does affect anything). 

Yeah, I should've clarified that this is pre Cognitive Shadow Taln and this would be with the full inquisitor spikes

[AnAirSickFool]

My guess is probably not. with that many spikes I do not think anyone could resist for more then a few moments. 

We see that as a Cognitive Shadow he could only resist whatever was happening to the Harald's for a short amount of time so I would think that as a human it would be to much even for him. Now saying all that I do think he would last longer then Marsh did and be able to do more but only for a limited amount of time maybe a minute or two at most. 

[First of the Tide He/him]

It's a very complicated question. The two situations are pretty different. the way i understand it, Taln was tortured externally, whereas Marsh was controlled internally. Even though taln stood up against the torture for thousands of years without breaking, WaT Spoilers:

Spoiler

He still never broke, Chanaranach died and then broke (Shallan's Mom)

That is more a matter of guarding the sanctity of your mind against outside forces, whereas Marsh had to guard his own mind against his own mind (which I think he did by not thinking abt what he was doing but I don't know for sure) Also, marsh's main drive to resist, in this situation imo was his connection to all the relevant things (He doesn't want vin to die, if he resists the world of the peeps he loves keeps going, etc) taln wouldn't have that personal connection automatically to Scadrial. Both exhibit incredible will power, but beside individual skills as well. I think Taln could def. do the willpower part, and could prob. pull off the connection bit, since he kinda did that anyway in SA, even tho he didn't know those peeps, but  I don't think he's clever in the way that would be required to subvert his own mind

[Xanpheon]

6 hours ago, First of the Tide said:

It's a very complicated question. The two situations are pretty different. the way i understand it, Taln was tortured externally, whereas Marsh was controlled internally. Even though taln stood up against the torture for thousands of years without breaking, WaT Spoilers:

  Hide contents

He still never broke, Chanaranach died and then broke (Shallan's Mom)

That is more a matter of guarding the sanctity of your mind against outside forces, whereas Marsh had to guard his own mind against his own mind (which I think he did by not thinking abt what he was doing but I don't know for sure) Also, marsh's main drive to resist, in this situation imo was his connection to all the relevant things (He doesn't want vin to die, if he resists the world of the peeps he loves keeps going, etc) taln wouldn't have that personal connection automatically to Scadrial. Both exhibit incredible will power, but beside individual skills as well. I think Taln could def. do the willpower part, and could prob. pull off the connection bit, since he kinda did that anyway in SA, even tho he didn't know those peeps, but  I don't think he's clever in the way that would be required to subvert his own mind

It's not even torture, per se. Marsh wasn't "tortured" mentally by the spikes, Ruin was literally overriding his thoughts - making him take perverse glee in the act of carnage, of spiking, or murder.

The issue is that the spikes, as stated earlier, both crack the spiritweb (making holes for power to seep in, and thus making the sufferer more "controllable"), but they're also a direct feedback instrument to Ruin. Ruin's "side" of the power to communicate comes from being able to push at the cracks in someone's soul and let his voice be heard, in opposition to Preservation's ability to hear everything. It's why madmen can hear his voice - or the voice of cognitive shadows in general.

Taln's willpower is supremely strong, but this isn't torture. This is the force of a Shardic mind paying attention to someone and directly overriding their iown mind. Taln is incredible, but even he couldn't stand up to a shard forever.

[First of the Tide He/him]

4 hours ago, Xanpheon said:

It's not even torture, per se. Marsh wasn't "tortured" mentally by the spikes, Ruin was literally overriding his thoughts - making him take perverse glee in the act of carnage, of spiking, or murde

Absolutely! I didn't intend to say Marsh was tortured; That's part of the contrast I was trying to highlight.