M***h Rant (General SA spoilers)

[NerdSandwich she/her]

Here's what I think of M***h

he is:

A guy who couldn't handle his emotions, so he let a god take them away instead of going to therapy.

He's basically the high-school friend who decides your choices are dumb and tries to talk you into making bad ones, only with a much higher body count.

A former soldier who is really, really mad about having to be a soldier, and who holds grudges for a long, long time.

A "rebel" who eventually gives up on his principles and just becomes an obedient minion to a new, evil boss.

He's the ultimate contrarian, so committed to doing the opposite of his friend that he joined the enemy army just to prove a point.

He's a guy who wanted a promotion at work but was passed over for a more qualified colleague. He eventually got his way, but only after siding with the competition and hurting the colleague who helped him.

The 5 Main Reasons I Hate M***h:

He betrayed Kaladin and Bridge Four: Moash betrayed Kaladin multiple times, leading to Kaladin's deep personal pain and ultimately the deaths of several close friends, including Teft, as he pushed Kaladin to the breaking point.

He murdered Elhokar and Teft: Moash was responsible for the deaths of Elhokar and Teft, two characters that many readers cared about. He murdered them in cold blood to further his own goals, actions that many consider irredeemable.

He inflicted psychological torture on Kaladin: Moash actively sought to break Kaladin by psychologically torturing him, pushing him to suicide, and trying to force him to give his pain to Odium. He does not seem to care that he is making Kaladin suffer in this way, even when it is a direct result of their past friendship.

He joined Odium and renounced his conscience: Moash chose to join Odium, a being of pure hatred, and have his pain and guilt removed. This action is seen as a conscious choice to become evil and to no longer feel any remorse for his actions, even as he continues to hurt people.

He refuses to take responsibility for his actions: Moash continually blames others for his own choices and refuses to take responsibility for his actions, which is a major reason many readers dislike him. He would rather ask Odium to remove his pain than to face it himself, and he seeks to inflict the same pain on others.

 

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

Personally I thought he was a really good character in  Rhythm of War, if a detectable human being

Spoiler

I didn't like him nearly as much in Wind and Truth

Spoiler

YOU'RE ALREADY KALADIN'S NARRATIVE FOIL, YOU CAN'T BE SIGZIL'S TOO!!!

 

 

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

9 minutes ago, Ink and Embers said:

Personally I thought he was a really good character in  Rhythm of War, if a detectable human being

  Hide contents

I didn't like him nearly as much in Wind and Truth

  Hide contents

YOU'RE ALREADY KALADIN'S NARRATIVE FOIL, YOU CAN'T BE SIGZIL'S TOO!!!

 

 

Mmm, I didn't see it that way. I think just Moash needed action and Sigzil needed to fight someone in that way and so they went together. Sigzil is never like "It's that traitor how dare he be like this," he's more just of "Frick I gotta fight this guy." If that was comprehensible at all. 

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

3 hours ago, YouCantHaveMySandwich said:

Here's what I think of M***h

he is:

A guy who couldn't handle his emotions, so he let a god take them away instead of going to therapy.

He's basically the high-school friend who decides your choices are dumb and tries to talk you into making bad ones, only with a much higher body count.

A former soldier who is really, really mad about having to be a soldier, and who holds grudges for a long, long time.

A "rebel" who eventually gives up on his principles and just becomes an obedient minion to a new, evil boss.

He's the ultimate contrarian, so committed to doing the opposite of his friend that he joined the enemy army just to prove a point.

He's a guy who wanted a promotion at work but was passed over for a more qualified colleague. He eventually got his way, but only after siding with the competition and hurting the colleague who helped him.

The 5 Main Reasons I Hate M***h:

He betrayed Kaladin and Bridge Four: Moash betrayed Kaladin multiple times, leading to Kaladin's deep personal pain and ultimately the deaths of several close friends, including Teft, as he pushed Kaladin to the breaking point.

He murdered Elhokar and Teft: Moash was responsible for the deaths of Elhokar and Teft, two characters that many readers cared about. He murdered them in cold blood to further his own goals, actions that many consider irredeemable.

He inflicted psychological torture on Kaladin: Moash actively sought to break Kaladin by psychologically torturing him, pushing him to suicide, and trying to force him to give his pain to Odium. He does not seem to care that he is making Kaladin suffer in this way, even when it is a direct result of their past friendship.

He joined Odium and renounced his conscience: Moash chose to join Odium, a being of pure hatred, and have his pain and guilt removed. This action is seen as a conscious choice to become evil and to no longer feel any remorse for his actions, even as he continues to hurt people.

He refuses to take responsibility for his actions: Moash continually blames others for his own choices and refuses to take responsibility for his actions, which is a major reason many readers dislike him. He would rather ask Odium to remove his pain than to face it himself, and he seeks to inflict the same pain on others.

 

As a character I love him but as a person I hate him and the reason I love him as a character is bc I think Brandon intended for us to hate him and he succeeded 

[NerdSandwich she/her]

yeah!

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, YouCantHaveMySandwich said:

Here's what I think of M***h

Common sentiments. Please see:

• I Hate Moash [Support]
• Moash and the fans who hate him
• Moash and Kaladin
• The great Moash controversy
• Moash's Point of No Return
• Moash redemption arc
• Would you kill Moash?
• Why do we debate Moash?
• etc.

Hope that helps

[Nitpicking]

6 hours ago, Honors ghost said:

As a character I love him but as a person I hate him and the reason I love him as a character is bc I think Brandon intended for us to hate him and he succeeded 

Not so much, with me. I just wish he'd stop interrupting the story to fail again. (Hi, Rayse! I found you a playmate.)

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Common sentiments. Please see:

• I Hate Moash [Support]
• Moash and the fans who hate him
• Moash and Kaladin
• The great Moash controversy
• Moash's Point of No Return
• Moash redemption arc
• Would you kill Moash?
• Why do we debate Moash?
• etc.

Hope that helps

Lol, we've got a real list going now.

Which I find funny since, if I'm being honest, I don't really hate Moash all that much.

I don't really like him, but I tend to find him either forgettable or annoying rather than truly detestable.

I do find it annoying and somewhat unbelievable that he managed to get to his current rank, skill, and power though. I can't help but feel that he's a deadly threat to characters while most millenia old Fused aren't not because he's actually endowed with such abilities, but because the author is pushing a bit too hard for Kaladin to have a foil.

But that's just my two rusty Clips.

[alder24]

For me Moash crossed a point of no return as a redeemable character when he tried to convince Kaladin to kill himself in the beginning of RoW. That moment sent shivers down my spine. To tell someone you call a friend to kill themself, who you know suffers from extreme depression and suicidal thoughts, is the most evil thing you can do to them. He's a well written character though and I like the conflict and contrast he provides, but I don't like him as a person and I don't want to see him getting redemption after that.