Magic vanishing in era 4?

[Cosmer]

Fairly certain we will just see more and more “skill” difference between folks with access to the same power. Wax and Wayne felt like a tease for this as they both had extreme skill and nuance with their powers (and it advanced throughout the series)…so raw power and abilities become less important in era 4, but mastery becomes even moreso. The only differentiator available.

 

Kelsier vs Inquisitor another example of skill trumping “taken” powers of equal or greater value.  

[Shadeshadow227]

On 11/5/2025 at 6:40 AM, Cosmer said:

Fairly certain we will just see more and more “skill” difference between folks with access to the same power. Wax and Wayne felt like a tease for this as they both had extreme skill and nuance with their powers (and it advanced throughout the series)…so raw power and abilities become less important in era 4, but mastery becomes even moreso. The only differentiator available.

 

Kelsier vs Inquisitor another example of skill trumping “taken” powers of equal or greater value.  

Ngl this makes total sense, especially for a setting like Scadrial.

Allomancy and Feruchemy aren't particularly flashy, but they're subtle, versatile, and able to be used with incredible skill and even precision in a way other powers really aren't. Like, Radiants are flashy, their powers have these dramatic effects that are big and glowy and powerful, but I genuinely believe that in an area that would really enable a Coinshot or Lurcher to move, a skilled Coinshot/Lurcher is likely objectively a better flier than a skilled Gravitation user would be. "Nothing beats a Scadrian ship in a steelfield" probably applies to the people who can fly, too.

Interestingly enough, the power vs skill divide is also displayed in an interesting way with Radiants vs Fused, with the more-skilled yet more-limited Fused as the antagonists, while the more powerful Radiants got their butts handed to them until they could exploit their increased power and different limitations to secure victories.

Something also has to be said regarding Scadrian tech and how it interacts with the Metallic Arts. Roshar has fabrials, sure, but Scadrian tech is just built extremely well and often made to synergize directly with the powers somebody already has, and I 100% expect to see a ton more of that going forward because it is fascinating. I wanna see more stuff like the Coinshot grappling tech, hazekiller ammunition, or metalmind technology, I'd happily pay double-price for Ghostbloods if it has more of that.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 10/11/2025 at 9:33 PM, Treamayne said:

Basically, if everybody has Invested Tools; then Invested Protagonists will have their normal abilities Plus all the same tools as everybody else.

So, is it possible (likely even) to have an Antagonist who has some super Fabrial Collection that can make them (still continuing the Vin example) Mistborn-level Peer dangerous. Sure - how else would we have a Big Bad without that possibility. Will every "normal joe" have that amount of tech, and the skill to use it. Unlikely. 

Imagine what individuals can do if you have hemalurgy, artificial spikes, artificial sources of Investiture and an actual understanding how to edit a spirit web.

[listerfeend]

On 10/11/2025 at 9:15 PM, bmcclure7 said:

Well I hope you’re wrong as have characters with cool powers is what brought me to the cosmere his underpowered books are alright but don’t think I would be interested in cosmere where they were the norm

I feel this so much. Wax and Wayne is my least favorite cosmere series, and it's not even close. Mistborn drew me into the cosmere, and I've read everything I can get my hands on since then. Wax and Wayne felt so far removed from what I initially fell in love with as the Cosmere that it was a genuine struggle for me to get through. I have a ton of doubts about the Ghostbloods series, even more so after the readings we got a few months ago. I recognize that this was always Brandon's Plan™, but I read Epic and High Fantasy precisely because I enjoy magic and its creative application to specific problems, and not the "Sufficiently advanced science looks like magic" kind of settings. Which is where the Cosmere is headed, and it fills me with trepidation. Storming Mistborn don't even exist in the Mistborn series anymore.

[ChillPenguin]

I hear what you’re saying - it’s frustrating to not have mistborn at all but Sanderson’s books have to change or else it’s stale. He’s redistributed the power to get more longevity out of the magic system. Now that I think about it, something similar has happened in Stormlight. I think we will get mistborn back someday and this shift adds more depth while reducing the possibility of power creep. We see in Sunlit Man that Radiants and still feared but they’re now mixed in with regular people that have access to investiture tech. Making the Radiants and Mistborn take a step back gives the regular folks a chance to develop and have some impact.

Well this rosy outlook depends on how the future books go.

[Mage of Lirigon he/him]

The Cosmere was always heading in this direction, you could see it even in say Mistborn, look at how Vin changed how she operated and even commissioned experiments once she learned new truths about Allomancy. 

Once you have a magic system in use by people, they're going to experiment to focus out how things work, that's simply human nature. It's something you rarely see in fantasy novels and something I appreciate with the Cosmere. 

[listerfeend]

On 1/16/2026 at 12:38 PM, Mage of Lirigon said:

The Cosmere was always heading in this direction

I recognize that fact, I even stated that in my post. That doesn't mean it doesn't feel like a bait and switch in many ways. He's changing the entire genre of the cosmere. Again, I recognize that that has been his plan all along, I just didn't know that when I started these and fell in love with the entire concept of the cosmere and what he had going on. I am sure that these books are going to be good. I'm just not sure I'm going to like love (edited, I will certainly like them)  them. And that's heartbreaking. 

 

On 1/16/2026 at 12:34 PM, ChillPenguin said:

I hear what you’re saying - it’s frustrating to not have mistborn at all but Sanderson’s books have to change or else it’s stale. He’s redistributed the power to get more longevity out of the magic system. Now that I think about it, something similar has happened in Stormlight. I think we will get mistborn back someday and this shift adds more depth while reducing the possibility of power creep.

I know you know this, but it's not just the lack of Mistborn in the Mistborn series. It's that we've replaced Mistborn, and to a lesser extent Mistings, Feruchemists, and everything else, with what? Computers, guns, and grenades? We're going from Skyrim to Cyberpunk 2077 here, and while that still leaves the door open for compelling stories, obviously, it feels like it sucks the magic out of it all. Sure, there are super clever applications of the same concepts going on, and it's neat that we can use Awakening to make multifunction AI whiteboards and the like, but I can go down the hall here at work and see largely the same thing. I can't go down the hall and see Kelsier juggling hundreds of metal fragments with his mind in an attempt to make the God King bleed.

I'm honestly trying not to be super pessimistic about this, I can't wait to get more lore and figure out what the endgame is here. It's exciting, for sure. But it feels more and more like I'll be looking forward to flashbacks and lore dumps, rather than the actual setting or characters.

Edited January 19 by listerfeend

[Qianweilian He/him]

On 1/16/2026 at 12:13 PM, listerfeend said:

the Mistborn series. It's that we've replaced Mistborn, and to a lesser extent Mistings, Feruchemists, and everything else, with what?

This is kinda related:

Quote

Questioner

Now that there are no mistborn in the Mistborn series and there's no stormlight in the Stormlight series, should we expect the city of Elantris to be destroyed next?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a good question. You can get a RAFO. You shouldn't expect... I didn't imagine this was the theme.

Are there still mistborn? The truth is, there are some Mistborn, because I think Marsh still counts. He's a hemalurgic mistborn. Marsh still counts. Other than that, I guess if you don't count hemalurgically made Mistborn, there aren't any. It's still possible, as someone has said; it's very, very difficult, and there aren't any right now, but it's possible.

Oh, you're right, Wax is a mistborn, you're right. So there you go. Wax is a mistborn, Hoid is a mistborn. They both had lerasium beads. As long as Hoid is there and Wax is still around, you still have mistborn. And Wax kind of knows, but he doesn't tell anybody.

*sarcastically* Oh, yes, I forgot about the Ghostblood Kelsier, who's totally a mistborn. Totally hasn't lost all his powers.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/551/#e17080

 

 

[listerfeend]

18 hours ago, Qianweilian said:

This is kinda related:

I had seen that WoB and it really stuck out to me that Brandon said he hadn't realized that was a theme. How did he not see that? He's nerfing magic across the board, it seems, in the universe all about interesting MoI...

I LOVE the Cosmere. Some of it is certainly "better" than others (MB era 1, hello?), but I've truly enjoyed everything up till now, even if Wax and Wayne was difficult for me to get through, I still enjoyed where we ended up. I've even been defensive and offended that so many people had so many complaints about KWaT. I point that out because I realize I'm coming across quite negative in my outlook here. I'm sure I'm going to like Ghostbloods, and whatever Era 4 is going to be called. I can't WAIT for the back half of SA, especially since the time jump for them is only supposed to be a few years, instead of the hundreds we had between Era 1 and 2. I can't WAIT for Dragonsteel to actually come out and get all those juicy details of Hoid and the Shattering. However, I can't help but feel like the best is already behind us, and I'm sticking it out to get to the destination, and the journey is no longer as magical an experience (literally and figuratively).

[Isilel]

On 1/19/2026 at 3:43 PM, listerfeend said:

He's nerfing magic across the board, it seems, in the universe all about interesting MoI...

 

I was disappointed by the lack of personal magic among the Scadrians in IotE. I thought that cosmere was moving towards democratisation of magic and it's widespread availability through gadgets and maybe synthetic, victimless hemalurgy hinted at in TLM, but there was nothing of that in the book. Hopefully, because Sanderson was keeping things back for intervening eras in a somewhat contrived fashion, but it has me worried.

At the same time I do think that both Mistborn and Radiants were rather overpowered and the former would be even more so with additional metals. 

I also would really like some golden middle. Like, maybe a handful of abilities combined in interesting ways, rather than all 16, and at least somewhat achievable without winning a genetic lottery, or being a mass murderer. 

As to the Radiants, I would have wished  them to be less unkillable to begin with. At this point I can only wonder how Odium's forces were ever a significant threat to them in the past, leave alone to the Heralds. I guess that now availability of the investiture will become the hard limiter. 

P.S. Speaking of Era 2, I was surprised and disappointed that 16% of everyone getting mist-snapped didn't result in every tenth northern Scadrian in Era 2  being a misting. I'd really like to see a society with widespread use of investiture in daily life. I am more interested in creative and skilled use of magic, rather than superheroes and supervillains just overpowering everyone except each other by default. But that's what we got again with Wax and Wayne, only at a lower power level, sigh. 

 

 

[listerfeend]

20 hours ago, Isilel said:

At the same time I do think that both Mistborn and Radiants were rather overpowered and the former would be even more so with additional metals. 

This is a fair point, and I'm hoping this is kind of like normal video game logic (eg. many games start you as OP to get you into it, and then nerf the heck out of you so you can build back up again). Once Radiants got some light in them, they pretty much became un-killable, until basic RoW when we started getting the anti-light/Raysium weapons. Now they can't even get Light outside the Tower.

 

20 hours ago, Isilel said:

As to the Radiants, I would have wished  them to be less unkillable to begin with. At this point I can only wonder how Odium's forces were ever a significant threat to them in the past, leave alone to the Heralds. I guess that now availability of the investiture will become the hard limiter. 

Exactly. Taln, with no Honorblade, took on enough Fused and Singers to create a literal hill to die on. How did he ever actually die during the Desolations? Especially given that they were connected directly to Honor, and therefore had unlimited Stormlight... Still, it feels like the nerfs went way too far, especially in W&W. That felt to me like batman in the old west more than Mistborn anything.... And I think that is the main issue I'm running into with all the nerfs and the era changes in general. I love Epic Fantasy, specifically set in Pre-Modern times. Now we are getting more to kind of generic fantasy, set in essentially modern times, and turning everything that is cool about magic into "science".