MR74: The Politics of Gods

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

- Willshaper: None but since I'm the only one left, it would have to be me.

You said it, not me. But I actually think your methodology is flawed. How does spreading the elims evenly assist the game balance? Docs only last a cycle, and shuffle around quite a bit. Also, who breaths go to is determined by seniority unless two priests vote together, which seems unlikely in most circumstances. Similar with the returned votes.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

16 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

were the starting Courts randomized or did you pick them specifically?

Honestly not sure what you're asking.

So I'll answer every possible variety.

First off, I chose the seniority of the gods, before I even posted signups. Then I determined that only the seniormost gods would have priests. There's never going to be a seniormost god with zero priests.

Second, once everyone had signed up, I ordered the priests by 17th Shard join date to determine Seniority.

Then I determined non randomly how many priests would be in each court, then non randomly how many elims would be in each court. Effectively I had something like LightSong: (7 loyal priests, 2 Elim priests)    Blushweaver: (3 Loyal Priests, 1 Elim Priests)    SharkBait: (5 Loyal Priests, 0 Elim Priests) Then I randomized the ordering of those priests and put the Priest Seniority List in that.

If this didn't answer your question, then Play and Find out.

[Amanuensis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

You said it, not me. But I actually think your methodology is flawed. How does spreading the elims evenly assist the game balance? Docs only last a cycle, and shuffle around quite a bit. Also, who breaths go to is determined by seniority unless two priests vote together, which seems unlikely in most circumstances. Similar with the returned votes.

Is it really an SE game with Araris and Aman if we don't end up in a mid / end game thread brawl

All this post really tells me is that you have thought about the rules a lot more than me, which I do think is another indication of your evilhood  tell me your expectation on C1 elim distribution then? Pure RNG?

Edited September 7, 2025 by Amanuensis

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

18 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Alright thank you, that is helpful. Interesting that Elsecallers started with 4; I forgot the starting player count so assumed it was 3x4=12

Obviously I don't expect anyone to take the Willshaper doc starting clean with anything more than a grain of salt until I flip, but since I am the last one left, let's maybe list who we think the elim from each Court is mostly likely. Try not to give an easy answer though, deeply consider each one if you can

 

I will go:

- Bondsmith: Araris

- Elsecaller: BBB or Coder

- Stoneward: Penguin or Doc

- Willshaper: None but since I'm the only one left, it would have to be me.

 

This is based off my current worldview but I will try to do a full reread and multiple ISOs tonight or tomorrow, since I finally have a day off

Ngl, all these questions are striking me as a little weird

So long as you reveal all you've got while we've still got time to act on it, though, I'm gonna let you cook

16 minutes ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

Because its TOW

Quite the accusation there, buddy

Care to elaborate on this?

9 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

Honestly not sure what you're asking.

So I'll answer every possible variety.

First off, I chose the seniority of the gods, before I even posted signups. Then I determined that only the seniormost gods would have priests. There's never going to be a seniormost god with zero priests.

Second, once everyone had signed up, I ordered the priests by 17th Shard join date to determine Seniority.

Then I determined non randomly how many priests would be in each court, then non randomly how many elims would be in each court. Effectively I had something like LightSong: (7 loyal priests, 2 Elim priests)    Blushweaver: (3 Loyal Priests, 1 Elim Priests)    SharkBait: (5 Loyal Priests, 0 Elim Priests) Then I randomized the ordering of those priests and put the Priest Seniority List in that.

If this didn't answer your question, then Play and Find out.

Huh...

So @Amanuensis, maybe you are onto something

I still wouldn't spend too much time obsessing over that

Aman, you've popped in quite suddenly and become obsessed with some quite specific stuff

What do you think of BBB?

Of Araris?

Also, @ThatOneWorldhopper, I know you're online, so...

TOW

Let's hear it

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

1 minute ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Care to elaborate on this?

11 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

no

[Araris Valerian he/him]

2 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

All this post really tells me is that you have thought about the rules a lot more than me, which I do think is another indication of your evilhood  tell me what your expectation on C1 elim distribution then? Pure RNG?

Well, I just went through a minor panic attack related to CD being an elim and getting Windrunner's Breath, so I think my focus on the rules is justified.

Honestly, I'm not sure. If it wasn't RNG, then I would have taken seniority into account, such that elims had seniority in 1 doc, and maybe 2 members in another doc where they were lower seniority, so that if they voted together they'd have the option to control that returned vote as well. I just think there are a lot of valid ways to set this up and I'm not confident in my ability to get in Joe's head to guess. Not to mention that I don't really want to brawl you right now, and I feel like your methodology makes that inevitable.

My skeptical brain is telling me that your posts today are an effort to wrest thread control away from Hoid and myself (but mostly away from me, because I think Hoid dies tonight in most worlds)

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Well, I just went through a minor panic attack related to CD being an elim and getting Windrunner's Breath, so I think my focus on the rules is justified.

Honestly, I'm not sure. If it wasn't RNG, then I would have taken seniority into account, such that elims had seniority in 1 doc, and maybe 2 members in another doc where they were lower seniority, so that if they voted together they'd have the option to control that returned vote as well. I just think there are a lot of valid ways to set this up and I'm not confident in my ability to get in Joe's head to guess. Not to mention that I don't really want to brawl you right now, and I feel like your methodology makes that inevitable.

My skeptical brain is telling me that your posts today are an effort to wrest thread control away from Hoid and myself (but mostly away from me, because I think Hoid dies tonight in most worlds)

Let's pretend for a couple hours we are both village (I have been operating under the assumption you were evil since C1, sadly you killed both of my original doc mates who can confirm I had a plan to pocket you and feel out your allies instead of thread brawling). The cat is out of the bag now, though, so I am willing to entertain a worldview that both of the most experienced elims rolled village this game

Is that a factor at all in your Doc read? I genuinely want to understand your sus of him better, since it feels to me like it only popped up after he had a reason to be inactive

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

8 minutes ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

no

Ooooookay

Can't support you, then

Do you have any reason, literally any at all, why you think TOW is more suspicious than Doc?

9 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

My skeptical brain is telling me that your posts today are an effort to wrest thread control away from Hoid and myself (but mostly away from me, because I think Hoid dies tonight in most worlds)

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out why I didn't die last night

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Let's pretend for a couple hours we are both village (I have been operating under the assumption you were evil since C1, sadly you killed both of my original doc mates who can confirm I had a plan to pocket you and feel out your allies instead of thread brawling). The cat is out of the bag now, though, so I am willing to entertain a worldview that both of the most experienced elims rolled village this game

Is that a factor at all in your Doc read? I genuinely want to understand your sus of him better, since it feels to me like it only popped up after he had a reason to be inactive

Aman, what makes you see Araris as elim?

And how do you feel about BBB, who right now is on the slate to die today?

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, Hoid Slayer said:

Ooooookay

Can't support you, then

Do you have any reason, literally any at all, why you think TOW is more suspicious than Doc?

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out why I didn't die last night

Aman, what makes you see Araris as elim?

And how do you feel about BBB, who right now is on the slate to die today?

The reason you didn't die is because the NKs are Araris' NK profile to a T

It began as a meta thing of me assuming 1 of Araris or Doc would be elim since I'm not, which could have led to confirmation bias so I am willing to be talked down.

That said, as noted above, that Polly kill reeked of Araris to me from the jump, especially with his response post.

I am not super interested in defending myself tbh, so if people think I am worth voting, bring it.

There is no world in which I am on a team with a Gaia C1 kill though, whoever did that is brutal

Just now, Hoid Slayer said:

Ooooookay

Can't support you, then

Do you have any reason, literally any at all, why you think TOW is more suspicious than Doc?

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out why I didn't die last night

Aman, what makes you see Araris as elim?

And how do you feel about BBB, who right now is on the slate to die today?

The reason you didn't die is because the NKs are Araris' NK profile to a T

It began as a meta thing of me assuming 1 of Araris or Doc would be elim since I'm not, which could have led to confirmation bias so I am willing to be talked down.

That said, as noted above, that Polly kill reeked of Araris to me from the jump, especially with his response post.

I am not super interested in defending myself tbh, so if people think I am worth voting, bring it.

There is no world in which I am on a team with a Gaia C1 kill though, whoever did that is brutal

[Araris Valerian he/him]

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Let's pretend for a couple hours we are both village (I have been operating under the assumption you were evil since C1, sadly you killed both of my original doc mates who can confirm I had a plan to pocket you and feel out your allies instead of thread brawling). The cat is out of the bag now, though, so I am willing to entertain a worldview that both of the most experienced elims rolled village this game

I'm slightly injured that you thought you could pull something like that on me

My Doc read comes from his votes. It's basically a guaranteed that at least one C1 vote on TwinStorm was elim, just by the numbers. 

Quote

Araris Valerian (2): The Unknown Hammerer and IcedOut Penguin
BigBadBagsworth (2): Twinstorm and Bondsmith the Pious
Doc12 (2): ThatOneWorldhopper and Stoneward the Resourceful
The Unknown Hammerer (5): Araris Valerian, xxGaea, Amanuensis, Hoid Slayer and Willshaper the Resolute
TwinStorm (4): BigBadBagsworth, CoderDrag0n8, Doc12 and Elsecaller the Careful

During C2, I would assume elims would want to avoid a TwinStorm exe if possible, or at least to distance themselves from it. Doc is the only person (other than myself) that fits in that category.

Also, I'm now thinking that if you are village then one of Penguin, TOW, or Hoid is elim.

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

7 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

Do you have any reason, literally any at all, why you think TOW is more suspicious than Doc?

18 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

TOW has been inactive

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

The reason you didn't die is because the NKs are Araris' NK profile to a T

It began as a meta thing of me assuming 1 of Araris or Doc would be elim since I'm not, which could have led to confirmation bias so I am willing to be talked down.

That said, as noted above, that Polly kill reeked of Araris to me from the jump, especially with his response post.

I am not super interested in defending myself tbh, so if people think I am worth voting, bring it.

There is no world in which I am on a team with a Gaia C1 kill though, whoever did that is brutal

I don't think you're quite worth voting

However, I know the elims probably want some thread control, unless there's a thread inactive elim team on our hands and they are just standing back and watching us all at our throats

So I tentatively think there is most probably at least one elim between Me, You, Araris and CD

Vibes and past experience tell me Araris, but those vibes are contradictory and the truth is I have little idea what I'm doing

CD is also somewhat sus, and I don't know what to think about you

We'll have to wait for Doc to come back for a read on him, and Penguin reads village to me despite all his oddities

Also, anyone else notice how BBB is fading into the background...

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 minute ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

TOW has been inactive

Given the way the thread is playing out right now, do you think it's a winning move for the elims to sit back as inactives?

6 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

The reason you didn't die is because the NKs are Araris' NK profile to a T

There is no world in which I am on a team with a Gaia C1 kill though, whoever did that is brutal

I'm pretty sure I don't kill Gaia C1 either. It's bad precedent if the mods kill returning players C1. Though I will admit to being brutal regardless of alignment.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Sorry for that double post, I lost service and had to restart my phone, apparently it sent

I do think BBB is a decent shot an elim. I liked his C1 but he fell off fast (and tbh it might have been cause I enjoyed his RP). I unfortunately spilled in today's doc before I caught up on C2 that I was sus of Araris and Hoid Slayer (my initial thought was you had arranged you two to be in Windrunners to gain the Thug ability), but your C2 posting was ridiculously pure

The main thing holding me back on BBB is that Araris is pushing him before Doc, and as stated before, I have been operating under an E!Araris world since C1

4 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I'm pretty sure I don't kill Gaia C1 either. It's bad precedent if the mods kill returning players C1. Though I will admit to being brutal regardless of alignment.

My first thought was maybe a team of less culturally embedded players, but I generally think it's good game theory to have at least one carry on an elim team rather than a full roster of newer players / unknowns, which meant my immediate second thought as you

At least in my case I would be confident in my ability to pocket Gaia and would spare her for that.

I would definitely consider Polly on C2 as I detest inactives but not after killing Gaia and especially not while being inactive that cycle myself

Edited September 7, 2025 by Amanuensis

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

The main thing holding me back on BBB is that Araris is pushing him before Doc, and as stated before, I have been operation under an E!Araris world since C1

But this is just because Doc wouldn't respond to votes this cycle.

I think there are 2 possible approaches to the exe today. Either you and I brawl (fits with your doc distro proposal and the C1 votes on TUH), or we exe in BBB/Doc/CD. I challenge anyone to say that the latter group of 3 is clean.

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

But this is just because Doc wouldn't respond to votes this cycle.

I think there are 2 possible approaches to the exe today. Either you and I brawl (fits with your doc distro proposal and the C1 votes on TUH), or we exe in BBB/Doc/CD. I challenge anyone to say that the latter group of 3 is clean.

Nah we don't have to brawl, I'd rather not, which is why I was following your votes C1 and putting you higher in my reads than you were.

I would rather us discuss the other 5 candidates and choose the one that has the most potential, we can always hash this out at Lylo since you are also one of the few players to intentionally keep me alive for late game fear trains

Edited September 7, 2025 by Amanuensis

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

since you are also one of the few players to intentionally keep me alive for late game fear trains

Just for the record, I don't think I've ever actually pulled a late game fear train (feel free to correct me if I have).

I'm going to switch from BBB to CD. Mostly because I don't think anyone has actually voted on CD today but I've really been rubbed wrong by his posts.

[Amanuensis he/him]

My main thing tbh is I want Hoid to be very careful with how much they trust Araris. I am not saying you need to vote him any time soon, but he is definitely one of our best and most reliable deep wolves, so maybe don't let him decide who gets the Windrunner ability just in case

Ed1t:

I keep forgetting that only one God's power is in play at a time, ignore this until later I guess

Ed2t: 

Actually that is another good case for maybe why Hoid was spared, since they got the Elsecaller power to create a new Court and the elims might've hoped to get in first

Ed3t:

Is there anyone else under Hoid that we collectively think is most likely village?

Ed4t:

Okay I should really stop hiding in corners to write these posts, we have an extra staff member today and my boss has been working me to the bone lately, so I've been slacking  the guilt is starting to creep up so I will suppress my untimely hyperfixation for another 3 hoursish

Edited September 7, 2025 by Amanuensis

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

21 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I think there are 2 possible approaches to the exe today. Either you and I brawl (fits with your doc distro proposal and the C1 votes on TUH), or we exe in BBB/Doc/CD. I challenge anyone to say that the latter group of 3 is clean.

While I highly suspect both BBB and CD, I do see a world with an elim team of Araris/Aman, KSauce, and TOW

Just saying, it's possible, and we shouldn't tunnel too much

16 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Is there anyone else under Hoid that we collectively think is most likely village?

I like Penguin

28 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Given the way the thread is playing out right now, do you think it's a winning move for the elims to sit back as inactives?

I do

I don't know how to feel about recent events, but regardless of who is village and who is not, the elims are the ones who benefit the most from our fighting

I also don't particularly like the moral conflict you and Aman seem to be having over the NKs

I'm glad that we all seem to agree on BBB for now, and want to run that as far as we can

Normally, I try to make some plot to find elims - but without special abilities or PMs in this game, that's hard

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 minute ago, Hoid Slayer said:

I also don't particularly like the moral conflict you and Aman seem to be having over the NKs

Hmm, I can’t speak to Aman, but my read of him improved when he brought up the Gaia kill. I think both of us would be unlikely to make that choice but either of us would have been happy to take out Polly last cycle.

3 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

 

I don't know how to feel about recent events, but regardless of who is village and who is not, the elims are the ones who benefit the most from our fighting

See, I disagree (and I think Aman would too). We both respect each other’s abilities enough to hold off on a final judgement, but we aren’t going to derail the thread over our suspicions. Between the three of us, we could pick basically anyone and get them exed. I don’t see that as a winning scenario for the elims.

[Amanuensis he/him]

14 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said:

While I highly suspect both BBB and CD, I do see a world with an elim team of Araris/Aman, KSauce, and TOW

Just saying, it's possible, and we shouldn't tunnel too much

I like Penguin

I do

I don't know how to feel about recent events, but regardless of who is village and who is not, the elims are the ones who benefit the most from our fighting

I also don't particularly like the moral conflict you and Aman seem to be having over the NKs

I'm glad that we all seem to agree on BBB for now, and want to run that as far as we can

Normally, I try to make some plot to find elims - but without special abilities or PMs in this game, that's hard

I had to use the bathroom so I am back for a minute lol

 

I do try to avoid meta cases and prefer finding more tangible evidence, but at this point we don't have a ton to work with other than PoE (process of elimination). It probably is a bad thing that I would never let Gaia get C1'd, but between me not playing a game with them in ages and having a good rapport with them in our doc, I'd have definitely kept her around a bit longer if I had any say in the matter. There is always a possibility I went hands off with the kills for this exact defense, but that's social deduction games for you

 

Both her and I revealed we were in a doc together, and assuming people believe I am village, it does make a lot of sense for them to try to split up a potential town core being formed early

8 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Hmm, I can’t speak to Aman, but my read of him improved when he brought up the Gaia kill. I think both of us would be unlikely to make that choice but either of us would have been happy to take out Polly last cycle.

See, I disagree (and I think Aman would too). We both respect each other’s abilities enough to hold off on a final judgement, but we aren’t going to derail the thread over our suspicions. Between the three of us, we could pick basically anyone and get them exed. I don’t see that as a winning scenario for the elims.

Also this ^ Araris is my homie but sometimes homies got to be enhomies. Even if we have reasons to not trust each other that doesn't mean we have to shut each other out of discussion or escalate into a Thunderdome. Unless we are E/E and playing mind games with y'all, I think all discussion is a net benefit for the village

ED1T: One last post before I go, sorry.

Honestly I could see Penguin/BBB being teamed regardless of their third so I am pretty comfy with either kill. Might hedge our bets by picking the one Araris doesn't though

Edited September 7, 2025 by Amanuensis

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Sorry folks, I was busy sleeping.

Don't have much time right now.

I will try to respond sometime later

 

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

Given the way the thread is playing out right now, do you think it's a winning move for the elims to sit back as inactives?

Yes

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 minute ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

Yes

Please elaborate, or otherwise I'll assume you mean that everyone Aman, Hoid, and myself have named as a potential elim is actually a villager.

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Please elaborate, or otherwise I'll assume you mean that everyone Aman, Hoid, and myself have named as a potential elim is actually a villager.

I think that if the Elims don't do anything* they could very comfortably win the game, they've almost no doubt selected someone to kill, and we are probably going to vote out a villager