World Guide Lore: Ghostbloods

[RedBlue]

I decided that the Ghostbloods info in the World Guide merits a lore post because it’s not often we get reliable info about them or their goals that isn’t filtered through an untrustworthy source.

As expected, the primary goal of the Ghostbloods overall is to protect Scadrial. The goals of the Rosharan branch are:

• Deliver a lot of Stormlight to Thaidakar (this is the main thing they are supposed to do)
• Find way for Thaidakar to leave the Scadrian subastral and to avoid Cognitive Shadow mental issues (they don’t seem to have invested much effort into this one)
• Gain control of the Oathgates (presumably for strategic purposes)
• Acquire perfect gemstones (for transporting Stormlight)
• Find Ba-Ado-Mishram and recruit Sja-anat (to empower themselves)
• Imprison Heralds (to gain information and ‘eliminate potential adversaries’)
• Assassinate Jasnah (still very unclear why they’re targeting her)
• Oppose Sons of Honor (also unclear why they care about this local power struggle)

Other information of note: the organisation as a whole has a ‘strict hierarchy,’ and that the Scadrian Ghostbloods consider the Rosharan branch to be ‘chaotic.’

To me, this says that Kelsier did have significant concerns about Iyatil and her behaviour before Shallan’s report. Maybe he suspected all along that Iyatil was planning to go rogue, or maybe he didn’t like how she prioritised her activities. Under her leadership, the Rosharan branch seems to have focused heavily on goals that don’t benefit Kelsier or Scadrial in a clear, direct way.

I also infer that the Ghostbloods’ approach to Roshar will have to change significantly in the future, not only because the current branch there is (apparently) defunct, but because their original goal — to secure and deliver Stormlight to Scadrial — is now moot, as there is no more Stormlight. Perhaps the next iteration of the Rosharan branch will be after Voidlight instead?

My main question now is: why are the Rosharan Ghostbloods so hostile? Why are they picking fights with Jasnah and the Sons of Honor? Jasnah in particular could have been a helpful resource, and would have been eager to trade intel or favours back in the WoK era. The Sons of Honor and their petty machinations are irrelevant to the Ghostbloods’ main goals. Even the Heralds would make better allies or contacts than prisoners, as they are not a credible threat to Scadrial in their current state.

I expect the Ghostblood plotline to pick up again in the back half, as there are things here that really don’t feel resolved.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

4 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I decided that the Ghostbloods info in the World Guide merits a lore post because it’s not often we get reliable info about them or their goals that isn’t filtered through an untrustworthy source.

As expected, the primary goal of the Ghostbloods overall is to protect Scadrial. The goals of the Rosharan branch are:

• Deliver a lot of Stormlight to Thaidakar (this is the main thing they are supposed to do)
• Find way for Thaidakar to leave the Scadrian subastral and to avoid Cognitive Shadow mental issues (they don’t seem to have invested much effort into this one)
• Gain control of the Oathgates (presumably for strategic purposes)
• Acquire perfect gemstones (for transporting Stormlight)
• Find Ba-Ado-Mishram and recruit Sja-anat (to empower themselves)
• Imprison Heralds (to gain information and ‘eliminate potential adversaries’)
• Assassinate Jasnah (still very unclear why they’re targeting her)
• Oppose Sons of Honor (also unclear why they care about this local power struggle)

Other information of note: the organisation as a whole has a ‘strict hierarchy,’ and that the Scadrian Ghostbloods consider the Rosharan branch to be ‘chaotic.’

To me, this says that Kelsier did have significant concerns about Iyatil and her behaviour before Shallan’s report. Maybe he suspected all along that Iyatil was planning to go rogue, or maybe he didn’t like how she prioritised her activities. Under her leadership, the Rosharan branch seems to have focused heavily on goals that don’t benefit Kelsier or Scadrial in a clear, direct way.

I also infer that the Ghostbloods’ approach to Roshar will have to change significantly in the future, not only because the current branch there is (apparently) defunct, but because their original goal — to secure and deliver Stormlight to Scadrial — is now moot, as there is no more Stormlight. Perhaps the next iteration of the Rosharan branch will be after Voidlight instead?

My main question now is: why are the Rosharan Ghostbloods so hostile? Why are they picking fights with Jasnah and the Sons of Honor? Jasnah in particular could have been a helpful resource, and would have been eager to trade intel or favours back in the WoK era. The Sons of Honor and their petty machinations are irrelevant to the Ghostbloods’ main goals. Even the Heralds would make better allies or contacts than prisoners, as they are not a credible threat to Scadrial in their current state.

I expect the Ghostblood plotline to pick up again in the back half, as there are things here that really don’t feel resolved.

Honestly, I don't think the Ghostbloods will be coming back in nearly as much prominence in the back half, since the center of power was effectively destroyed and things are going down on Scadrial.

[RedBlue]

52 minutes ago, TwinStorm said:

Honestly, I don't think the Ghostbloods will be coming back in nearly as much prominence in the back half, since the center of power was effectively destroyed and things are going down on Scadrial.

Iyatil and her cronies have been effectively destroyed, but there’s much more to the Ghostbloods than just Iyatil’s faction. And yes, things are about to go down on Scadrial, but there’s no reason that should prevent another dangerous Ghostblood agent from absconding to Roshar.

And given how Shallan’s plot thread concludes in WaT, I would be surprised if the Ghostbloods don’t have a major resurgence in the back half.

Thaidakar makes a point of saying that, while he personally is cool with Shallan, his organisation is not. Then he warns her that Iyatil’s brother and associates may turn up on Roshar, and they will be her enemy. That would be a weird plot hook not to follow up on, in addition to the lingering unanswered questions.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

7 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Find way for Thaidakar to leave the Scadrian subastral and to avoid Cognitive Shadow mental issues (they don’t seem to have invested much effort into this one)

Felt have 10 days to interrogate Kalak, so maybe there was some progress on that end, though likely despite Iyatil, not because. Felt reported his findings directly to Kel, and did not use the Raysium Dagger on Kalak as he was told to by Iyatil.

7 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Gain control of the Oathgates (presumably for strategic purposes)

More convenience, since the other known stable Perpendicularity is in the Horneater Peaks, which involves a weeks journey up and down the mountains to access. Also, likely because the Horneaters are loose ends who could end up blabbing about them to other Worldhoppers if they aren't careful.

But also strategy since every Worldhopper uses that one and not the Oathgates. Exclusive access would be a massive advantage.

7 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Oppose Sons of Honor (also unclear why they care about this local power struggle)

Because their leader is Restares, aka Kalak a Herald. They are led by a target they're hunting, and also know things that the Ghostbloods want to know, like how to move Stormlight between planets.

7 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I also infer that the Ghostbloods’ approach to Roshar will have to change significantly in the future, not only because the current branch there is (apparently) defunct, but because their original goal — to secure and deliver Stormlight to Scadrial — is now moot, as there is no more Stormlight. Perhaps the next iteration of the Rosharan branch will be after Voidlight instead?

Warlight, but probably. They already know how to 'Unkey' Stormlight to get it to others worlds by WaT, all they really needed were a bunch of coatinaers (Perfect Gemstones which they already gathered) and a means of Realmatic Transition that they can privatize for their own use (They tried to claim te Oathgates, but failed. And now Cultivation's Perpendicularity is gone and they don't know about the Well of Control).

When Roshar becomes open to Worldhoppers again through both the time bubble going down and the Perpendicularity becoming known, they will try again. Though likely with even more caution, since there is now a very hostile Shard as powerful as Harmony and far more willing and able to act lurking around.

7 hours ago, RedBlue said:

My main question now is: why are the Rosharan Ghostbloods so hostile? Why are they picking fights with Jasnah and the Sons of Honor? Jasnah in particular could have been a helpful resource, and would have been eager to trade intel or favours back in the WoK era. The Sons of Honor and their petty machinations are irrelevant to the Ghostbloods’ main goals. Even the Heralds would make better allies or contacts than prisoners, as they are not a credible threat to Scadrial in their current state.

Because they didn't come to Roshar looking for allies, they came looking for a way to exploit their abundant natural Investiture and gather up all the secrets they can to empower themselves and rid themselves of anyone who would be Cosmere-Aware enough to stop them. Everyone who isn't a member of theirs is just a tool to get what they want, or an obstacle to be removed.

The results of an organization holding so tightly to secrets, that working in the open with others is anathema to them. At least for Iyatil's group.

[RedBlue]

7 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Felt have 10 days to interrogate Kalak, so maybe there was some progress on that end, though likely despite Iyatil, not because. Felt reported his findings directly to Kel, and did not use the Raysium Dagger on Kalak as he was told to by Iyatil.

I doubt Felt made much progress with interrogating Kalak, because Kalak doesn’t have the info Thaidakar most wants. Kalak doesn’t know how to get a Herald away from the Rosharan subastral, and he doesn’t know how to prevent or cure Mad Herald Syndrome. The most useful info Kalak can provide is an account of Rosharan history and maybe some pointers about how to store memories.

But I agree that Felt represents a different faction within the Ghostbloods. His association with Iyatil is minimal.

7 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Because their leader is Restares, aka Kalak a Herald. They are led by a target they're hunting, and also know things that the Ghostbloods want to know, like how to move Stormlight between planets.

The Sons of Honor have fractured over time, starting with Gavilar’s death and fracturing further with Amaram’s death. The faction that ends up running amok in the Alethi warcamps is not functionally led by Restares and is not aware of important secrets. They’re mostly concerned with empowering themselves and the Vorin church and researching questions that Kalak already knows the answers to, like the Voidbringers and Urithiru.

The Ghostbloods’ interest in Kalak makes sense, but doesn’t explain why they’re getting into it with the likes of Ialai, Vamah and Thanadal.

7 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Because they didn't come to Roshar looking for allies, they came looking for a way to exploit their abundant natural Investiture and gather up all the secrets they can to empower themselves and rid themselves of anyone who would be Cosmere-Aware enough to stop them. Everyone who isn't a member of theirs is just a tool to get what they want, or an obstacle to be removed.

The level and direction of hostility seen from Iyatil’s group does not match these goals. She’s supposed to tap into a natural resource and investigate anything that looks like it could yield useful info. How does that turn into assassinating an Alethi princess who is not obstructing these goals and is not a threat to the organisation? And it wasn’t just the one attempt, either. Why is Iyatil so determined to kill Jasnah specifically? Similarly, what’s with the feud with the Vorin extremist faction of the Sons of Honor?

In short: Iyatil’s group’s actions don’t add up, and I think we’re still missing part of the puzzle.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I doubt Felt made much progress with interrogating Kalak, because Kalak doesn’t have the info Thaidakar most wants. Kalak doesn’t know how to get a Herald away from the Rosharan subastral, and he doesn’t know how to prevent or cure Mad Herald Syndrome. The most useful info Kalak can provide is an account of Rosharan history and maybe some pointers about how to store memories.

Thats a good point. Also, funny thing, the answer to this, besides "Don't drink Investiture if you don't know where it came from" is probably just 'Therapy'.

I'm not sure if there's a shrink qualified enough for the Survivor.

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

But I agree that Felt represents a different faction within the Ghostbloods. His association with Iyatil is minimal.

Has anyone else noticed that most of the more 'problematic' members have strong ties to the Malwish (Iyatil and Dlavil being descendants) or have strong ties with such people?

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

The Sons of Honor have fractured over time, starting with Gavilar’s death and fracturing further with Amaram’s death. The faction that ends up running amok in the Alethi warcamps is not functionally led by Restares and is not aware of important secrets. They’re mostly concerned with empowering themselves and the Vorin church and researching questions that Kalak already knows the answers to, like the Voidbringers and Urithiru.

The Ghostbloods’ interest in Kalak makes sense, but doesn’t explain why they’re getting into it with the likes of Ialai, Vamah and Thanadal.

Maybe they're just playing it safe and are assuming that these scattered remnants know enough secrets to be dangerous to them and are just trying to stamp them out for their own safety? Ialai did say to Shallan that the Ghostbloods wouldn't let her learn secrets that could hurt them, implying that she's familiar with the Ghostbloods and how they work, which a shadow group like the Ghostbloods would see as a loose end better left tied.

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

The level and direction of hostility seen from Iyatil’s group does not match these goals. She’s supposed to tap into a natural resource and investigate anything that looks like it could yield useful info. How does that turn into assassinating an Alethi princess who is not obstructing these goals and is not a threat to the organisation? And it wasn’t just the one attempt, either. Why is Iyatil so determined to kill Jasnah specifically? Similarly, what’s with the feud with the Vorin extremist faction of the Sons of Honor?

In short: Iyatil’s group’s actions don’t add up, and I think we’re still missing part of the puzzle.

Allegedly, Jasnah had several members of their assassinated, but I don't think we have confirmation on that from Jasnah.

Maybe they tried to kill her because she was one of the only people who was actively trying to stop the True Desolation and was actually making a bit of progress to that goal. The Ghostbloods wanted the True Desolation to happen, or at least Kelsier confirmed that they helped make it happen, maybe even directly if Axindweth, the Terriswoman who gave Ulim to Venli, was actually a Ghostblood Agent the whole time.

I do agree that there's something we aren't seeing here, but with Iyatil and Mraize's deaths, I doubt we'll be seeing what exactly their angle was anytime soon.

[Kfish]

Honestly im not sure that the heralds are stuck on roshar anymore. Spren are able to leave the subastral now 

[lacrossedeamon]

14 minutes ago, Kfish said:

Honestly im not sure that the heralds are stuck on roshar anymore. Spren are able to leave the subastral now 

I could see Heralds still being stuck due to the oathpact.

[Knuti]

An anyway, that does not solve Kelsier's problems.

[Qianweilian He/him]

On 8/1/2025 at 8:22 AM, JustQuestin2004 said:

I'm not sure if there's a shrink qualified enough for the Survivor.

I'm not sure if there is any shrink period. The Industrial Revolution is not known for mental health advances.

[DSCrankshaw]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shallan showed up in the Ghostbloods book. It occurred to me that might be the story reason she's trapped in Shadesmar. And while Kelsier warned her against leaving Roshar if she doesn't want to out-age her friends and family, that's a significantly bigger concern going the other way--spending a few years on Scadrial while a few months passed on Roshar wouldn't put her too out of sync. Since she's six years younger than Adolin, they'd probably just end up closer in age.

On 8/1/2025 at 6:45 AM, RedBlue said:

The level and direction of hostility seen from Iyatil’s group does not match these goals. She’s supposed to tap into a natural resource and investigate anything that looks like it could yield useful info. How does that turn into assassinating an Alethi princess who is not obstructing these goals and is not a threat to the organisation? And it wasn’t just the one attempt, either. Why is Iyatil so determined to kill Jasnah specifically? Similarly, what’s with the feud with the Vorin extremist faction of the Sons of Honor?

In short: Iyatil’s group’s actions don’t add up, and I think we’re still missing part of the puzzle.

It's possible that they just wanted exclusive access to the Oathgates, and since Jasnah was also in search of the Oathgates, that put them in conflict. Also, Mraize hints that Jasnah targeted the Ghostbloods as well, so it's not hard to imagine that she started the fight. Jasnah was not above using assassination against her enemies, and Wind and Truth showed us that she would take out preliminary contracts even on possible enemies. If the Ghostbloods discovered such a contract, they may have been less understanding than Fen, and taken a somewhat justified preemptive strike approach.