Cusicesh Entity Type

[teknopathetic he/him]

Does anyone else think Cusicesh is suspiciously like a non-corrupt non-anti-investiture splinter of Ambition?

Cusicesh is a large spren-like being with constantly shifting and changing aspect of its body (in this case its faces)? It obviously isn’t anti-investiture and doesn’t move with a strobe effect, but it is how I might imagine a normal Ambition splinter behaving. Perhaps Ambition had at one point made a splinter being before she was destroyed, and Cusichesh lived on much like honour-based spren have? As a last idea, maybe this splinter was re-made completely somehow because of the Iriali?

Alternatively, could Cusicesh be a member of the actual non-ambition Dakwara legend group? Perhaps the Iriali managed to defeat one and it agreed to be a guide for their journey off of Roshar? Dusk's people also had run into these creatures and brought the legends about them with their migration?

Just some thoughts seeing as the Iriali come up here and there in this book 

Edited July 15, 2025 by teknopathetic

[ChipsAHoid He/Him]

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

Does anyone else think Cusicesh is suspiciously like a non-corrupt splinter of ambition? A large spren-like being with constantly shifting and changing aspect of its body (in this case its faces)? It obviously isn’t anti-investiture and doesn’t move with a strobe effect, but it is how I might imagine a healed ambition splinter behaving. Perhaps Ambition had made a pointer before she was destroyed, and this one lived on? Or maybe this splinter was re-made?

Alternatively, could Cusicesh be a member of the actual non-ambition Dakwara legend group? Perhaps the Iriali managed to defeat one and it agreed to be a guide for their journey off of Roshar? 

Just some thoughts seeing as the Iriali come up here and there in this book 

Ohhh I like that. I think it makes sense. The evil wasn’t kind that before, so perhaps this one wasn’t warped by the clash.

[lacrossedeamon]

Cakoban was applying the name of something from their culture to something they newly encountered per Jope's dialogue in Dusk's vision.

But I do believe that Cusicesh could be like the Dakwara as a Type 1-6 Threnodite Invested entity that got locked into shape somehow.

[Nitpicking]

Cusicesh seems way too passive to be Ambition. By definition, Ambition is about wanting to constantly change your circumstances and/or yourself.

[Ninth of the Night]

I had the same impression when first reading the description of the entity, it evoked similarities to Cusicesh. Now that I'm more fully thinking about it, I believe it's likely that it's a splinter of Ambition. One that has long been "domesticated" so to speak, much like the Dakwara. The Iriali, long long ago, shaped the entity into what they now know as their guardian or guide.

10 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

Cusicesh seems way too passive to be Ambition. By definition, Ambition is about wanting to constantly change your circumstances and/or yourself.

Not the Shard itself, a splinter. A bound entity. And your description fits considering the Iriali are known for changing location a lot.

There's also no indication that it isn't anti-Investiture. We haven't seen anyone get close to the thing to tell. But if it is indeed a splinter of Ambition then it's most certainly made of anti-Investiture.

[lacrossedeamon]

We also don't really know enough about Cusicesh to really judge it.

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

Oooh I like this. Cusicesh description from Axies Interlude in WoK

Quote

The column sprouted four long arms that came down around the bay, forming fingers and thumbs

Emberdark chapter 25:

Quote

—a towering white mass of Investiture, translucent but not fully transparent, the size of a large building. It had a head and body, vaguely, and dozens of long, many-elbowed arms.

And from Cakoban vision in chapter 52

Quote

It was a many-armed horror, rising from the unsea on two spindly legs, bearing a hollow face full of pits.

All have a bunch of weird spindly arms, seems suspicious.

[Eahlendell]

Doesn’t gain life haven’t sets of arms. Why would Cusicesh share theirs feature? When I was reading this book my mind also connected Both types of these entities.

[Moirne she/her]

1 hour ago, Eahlendell said:

Doesn’t gain life haven’t sets of arms. Why would Cusicesh share theirs feature? When I was reading this book my mind also connected Both types of these entities.

My pet theory has been that the Iriali initially came from Yolen and Cusicech is modeled after the fainlife they remember - shaped into that form by their collective mythology like the Dakwara.

[TheoreticalMagic]

Well Uli Da, the Vessel of Ambition, was a Sho Del, and that species is a form of fainlife, right? So it would make sense for Splinters of Ambition to have fainlife characteristics like the one and only Vessel to ever actually hold Ambition.....

[Elegy he/him]

I'm still skeptical that the Iriali are associated with any specific Shard. Their mythology sounds an awful lot like Adonalsium's story (the One being separated into different experiences), and if Cusicesh guides them on the Trial to the One, it seems probable to me that it's older than the Shards and was an original splinter of Adonalsium. (Maybe formed after Adonalsium saw what was coming and wanted to give the Iriali directions, presuming that the Iriali are Yolish.)

[lacrossedeamon]

On 8/14/2025 at 6:15 AM, Elegy said:

I'm still skeptical that the Iriali are associated with any specific Shard. Their mythology sounds an awful lot like Adonalsium's story (the One being separated into different experiences), and if Cusicesh guides them on the Trial to the One, it seems probable to me that it's older than the Shards and was an original splinter of Adonalsium. (Maybe formed after Adonalsium saw what was coming and wanted to give the Iriali directions, presuming that the Iriali are Yolish.)

There are some hints that Iriali could be connected to Autonomy although a WoB does seemingly contradict that but 7 is most likely Autonomy's number and gold could be her color. It's possible they were also the original builders of the Diem fortress on Taldain.

[Elegy he/him]

1 hour ago, lacrossedeamon said:

There are some hints that Iriali could be connected to Autonomy although a WoB does seemingly contradict that but 7 is most likely Autonomy's number and gold could be her color. It's possible they were also the original builders of the Diem fortress on Taldain.

I mean, it's possible. Lost Metal's Trellium experiments suggested that Autonomy's color would be red. Gold is mostly associated with Odium when it comes to Shards. Not sure about Autonomy's number. I never noticed many 7s in White Sand tho, mostly 8s

Autonomy really fits with the "One became Many" theme! On the other hand, she doesn't seem like she'd want to put the One back together.

Edited August 17, 2025 by Elegy

[lacrossedeamon]

6 minutes ago, Elegy said:

I never noticed many 7s in White Sand tho, mostly 8s

7 orbits between pulses from the Eye of Ridos, 7 denominations of the currency, 7 sandmaster ranks, implied 7 colors of starmarks; the only 8 is guild professions

18 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Lost Metal's Trellium experiments suggested that Autonomy's color would be red. Gold is mostly associated with Odium when it comes to Shards.

Colors are weird. Odium also has the ultraviolet stuff going on. But Cakoban glowed gold while invested and red seems to be described as suborned Investiture rather than the native color so I take the gold from the phrase "men of gold and red" to be what it connected to Trell.

21 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Autonomy really fits with the "One became Many" theme! On the other hand, she doesn't seem like she'd want to put the One back together.

 Yeah I think it aligns well with the many avatars thing she's got going on. Unfortunately there is this WoB:

Spoiler

Solfor (paraphrased)

So the Iriali, their religion, the whole the One breaking themselves into the many to experience the universe. You also have Autonomy breaking themselves into many avatars. So I was wondering is Autonomy connected to the Iriali in any meaningful way.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So are the Iriali connected to Autonomy in a meaningful way? 

I'd say no. I mean they're slightly connected, but in a meaningful way, no, they're not connected.

Autonomy did not start the Iriali religion.

DragonCon 2019 (Sept. 2, 2019)

But everything else seems to line up so perfectly I'm wondering if Brandon has changed his mind.

[Elegy he/him]

I mean, I definitely agree that it might be the case.

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

7 orbits between pulses from the Eye of Ridos, 7 denominations of the currency, 7 sandmaster ranks, implied 7 colors of starmarks; the only 8 is guild professions

Fair!

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Odium also has the ultraviolet stuff going on.

Yeah but the Well of Control was golden, which for all we know seems to be the most definitive representation of a Shard's color. At the very, very least, golden is much more associated with Odium than with anything about Autonomy we've seen.

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

But Cakoban glowed gold while invested

Yes, but we have no real idea what kind of Investiture he consumed, and the glow of Invested people doesn't always indicate the Shard's color, given that the Elantrians have a silver glow but the perpendicularity of Elantris is blue.

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

seems to be described as suborned Investiture rather than the native color

It can function as both - after all, it is the color that gets filtered from Trellium, which is Autonomy's God Metal (not one she hijacked), so there is good reason to believe that it's actually her color.

I'm not trying to disprove your point though! Colors in the Cosmere are weird and partly seemingly nonsensical, so everything goes. But for the same reason, it's hard to really argue for anything based on color attributions. And for example, while I believe that golden is Odium's color, I don't think that the Iriali are actually connected to Odium. I think they prooobably predate any Shard colors. (Maybe that's the reason why Shard colors are weird? Because there were principles in place before the Shards, then the colors got re-assigned via the Shards and now both co-exist? I have no idea, it's just extremely confusing.)

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Yeah I think it aligns well with the many avatars thing she's got going on.

Yep! But  like I said, I don't think it lines up with how the Many want to morph back into the One. To me it seems like that philosophy encapsules both Autonomy and something opposite to it. Which to me feels like Adonalsium would be a good pick, since it includes Autonomy, but also the aspect that values unity (Honor, Devotion, etc.). Although I don't want this to sound like I'm super convinced that it's an Adonalsium thing. I am mostly super convinced that we can't really have a firm idea of it yet 

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

But everything else seems to line up so perfectly I'm wondering if Brandon has changed his mind.

Meh, the WOB is from 2019 - most of the things you say line up perfectly already did when he said that. If anything, what he released since then seems more and more aligned with the WOB imo (like the golden Well of Control or the red Trellium in the experiment).