Does Sanderson count as hopepunk?

[lacrossedeamon]

Reading a bit about this emerging (at least in the sense of recently becoming codified) genre made me think about Sanderson. I am only familiar with his cosmere work but assume similar themes generally show up across his works. Curious to see if people think he qualifies or is it not central enough to his stories?

[Treamayne]

21 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Reading a bit about this emerging (at least in the sense of recently becoming codified) genre made me think about Sanderson. I am only familiar with his cosmere work but assume similar themes generally show up across his works. Curious to see if people think he qualifies or is it not central enough to his stories?

I would say there may be elements of HopePunk, even some characters may qualify; but overall I would not classify most Cosmere works as HopePunk. 

Wikipedia Extracts:

Spoiler

The various "-punk" subgenres are connected by the idea of social disruption. Hopepunk in speculative fiction explores resistance, rebellion, and resilience as counters to apathy and cynicism. Hopepunk describes works such as books, movies, and television shows, that reveal hope in the face of challenges and act as a counter to pessimism. Scholar Elin Kelsey describes it as "a narrative of positive resistance" and contrasts it with noblebright, which takes as its premise that not only are there good fights worth fighting, but that they are also winnable and result in a happy ending. Where noblebright is the narrative of the hero, hopepunk instead celebrates the collective response.

Rowland has pointed out that anger is also a part of hopepunk, saying "sometimes the kindest thing you can do for someone is to stand up to a bully on their behalf, and that takes guts and rage." Initially describing a subgenre, its use has extended to refer to motivations, narrative tone, outlook. The editors of Uncanny Magazine define it as "radical empathy" and "radical kindness", contrasting it to the hopelessness of grimdark. Rowland wrote that "Hopepunk isn’t pristine and spotless. Hopepunk is grubby, because that’s what happens when you fight." Although they may include horrible events, injustice, and inequality, hopepunk stories have characters who choose to act, rejecting pessimism and passivity. Positive human traits and community contribute to solutions.

Stories in the hopepunk subgenre reject the fatalism and cynicism of grimdark. Hopepunk characters persevere, believing in the possibility of something better in the face of difficult realities. Hopepunk is an approach in which characters choose to fight to make things better, and are motivated by noble motives. Some critics and fans considered the awards of both the Hugo Award and Nebula Award to The Calculating Stars by Mary Robinette Kowal as industry recognition of hopepunk literature. Hopepunk, a reaction to decades of dystopian, nihilistic fiction, explores how goodness and optimism can be acts of rebellion. A hopepunk narrative is driven by fierce caring and the will to fight for something. The worlds described in hopepunk works are not utopian or even necessarily hopeful; the genre is expressed in the ways characters approach issues.

So, for example, I would say Raoden is a HopePunk Character, but I would not classify Elantris as a HopePunk story. 

Just my 20yen.

[lacrossedeamon]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

So, for example, I would say Raoden is a HopePunk Character, but I would not classify Elantris as a HopePunk story. 

Would not the whole plot surrounding creating a new community in exile be HopePunk? Similarly wouldn't Sarene working to show the lords that there is a better way be HopePunk (sorta it still is feudal in the end). I could even see an argument for Hrathen's arc being HopePunk as he struggles with his religion but comes to the conclusion that it is not inherently flawed or doomed to fail.

If you agree with those, then all three main POV characters would be HopePunk. Would it not follow that the whole story is HopePunk?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

I would say that Sanderson is about averting the very worst outcome by human action. That his stories show change for the better is a bold proposition. That guy routinely kills over 95% of a population.

[Treamayne]

9 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Would not the whole plot surrounding creating a new community in exile be HopePunk? Similarly wouldn't Sarene working to show the lords that there is a better way be HopePunk (sorta it still is feudal in the end). I could even see an argument for Hrathen's arc being HopePunk as he struggles with his religion but comes to the conclusion that it is not inherently flawed or doomed to fail.

To me, HopePunk is, at least, as much about Motive as it is about Actions. (Elantris Spoilers):

Spoiler

• Serene is not working to to help the Arelenes so much as she wants to be in politics, prove how smart and savvy she is and one-up the misogynistic King. Helping the Lords Sharecrop to improve productivity is barely a by-product of "how can I solve the puzzle to prove Iadon's system is bad."
  • To me, her primary motivations are boredom, a desire to be involved in what Raoden was working on when he "died," and first and foremost - prove herself to herself and everybody else.
• Hrathen starts his actions out of Duty, modulates the plan out of Guilt, and ultimately turns his back on Wyrn out of Betrayal. Again, what good he accomplish is undeniably good, but I do not see the motives behind the actions as particularly in-line with HopePunk.

Neither expresses the sense of community response or rejection of pessimism that seems integral to HopePunk, and not in the way that Raoden does. 

[lacrossedeamon]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

To me, HopePunk is, at least, as much about Motive as it is about Actions.

Neither expresses the sense of community response or rejection of pessimism that seems integral to HopePunk, and not in the way that Raoden does. 

I can accept your criteria and agree that with Sarene it was guided by ulterior motives. But Hrathen while not maybe a rejection of pessimism I would describe as overcoming cynicism which might be close enough.

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I would say that Sanderson is about averting the very worst outcome by human action. That his stories show change for the better is a bold proposition. That guy routinely kills over 95% of a population.

I guess that then would be depending on how you frame it.

[Lord Stormer]

I think it's not the most suitable perspective to think Sanderson's works as "hopepunk" or with any of the contemporary terms. I've read Steelheart, Skyward (the whole series), and the whole Stormlight with some others, and I am aware positive resistance is a recurring theme. What you must know is that Sanderson admitted (I think it's around 2016) that he can't write grimdark stories as it would conflict with his religious convictions.

The story is inseparable from the author's soul. My spiritual convictions are very much like him. The themes of love and faith overcoming corruption have been with us since time unknown, and I believe they make a difference in the sea of history. Protagonists acting out of love and passion makes powerful storytelling. I remembered a passage from Tress about this, but I can't find it.

Modern fantasy authors with positive outlooks on life are bit hard to find nowadays. I say some of his popularity owes to how he executes this theme along with deep character building. So, for your question, it is central, but often moral questions have no easy answers, so expect characters to break a lot.