The Story of Cakoban

[Atlas333]

The story of Cakoban has clearly been changed through the ages, but the general story is true. I'm trying to match up the figures of the myth with what we know really happened.

Figures from the myth

-Cakoban - real person, a Navigator

- Winged statue - the dragon 

- The two great giants of Epelli - no clue

- The shooting star they followed - the Current

- Dakwara - splinter of Ambition, now the real Dakwara

- blinding the dakwara with light - being greatly invested

- Tying the Dakwara into knots and pulling the islands from the sea - likely purely mythological.


We seem to know most of what really happened, except for the two giants. These could either be fictitious additions or perhaps represent an earlier part of the story we didn't get to see.

Edited July 3, 2025 by Atlas333

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

3 minutes ago, Atlas333 said:

The two great giants of Epelli - no clue

Could it be Odium and Ambition fighting? The next line is he made them attack each other and rode the resulting wave across the sea? This doesn't feel right I'll admit because it seems like they have familiarity with the Nephilim. Maybe Odium and Honor clashing we know it created the shattered plains but what effect would it have had in the cognitive realm. Maybe the people of first of the sun are the sailors on the infinite sea mentioned in one of the stories we hear in Stormlight Archive.

[RedBlue]

6 hours ago, Atlas333 said:

Winged statue - the dragon 

Notably, the dragon is Frost.

Which raises a bunch of questions about how and why Frost came to be involved, and why he later became so opposed to interfering with the outside world.

Also: how accurate is the myth when it says Cakoban ‘made a deal’ with the dragon? Was there a formal deal, or is this just a misremembering of a friendship? If there was a deal, is it still in effect?

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

45 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

Notably, the dragon is Frost.

The same Frost behind the in cosmere 17th shard. Who's constantly giving Hoid a hard time for involving himself in planetary problems, turns out he was involved directly in a societies relocation however many thousands of years ago.

[Treamayne]

20 hours ago, Atlas333 said:

- Winged statue - the dragon 

- The two great giants of Epelli - no clue

Let's look at the exact section - IED Ch 3:

Spoiler

 “After Cakoban made a deal with the great winged statue, who promised to come to him when next he needed help, he escaped by sailing between the legs of the great giants of Epelli! First one, then the other, so they attacked each other in their confusion! 

I took this to mean making a deal with Frost on the Spirit Shores by the Dragon Statue-Corpses we see  in Starling's vision. Which would make the Epelli have something to do with how they left Yolen rather than how they found First of the Sun. Perhaps there are/were guardians at the edges of Yolen's Shadesmar (SA Spoilers)

Spoiler

Similar to the Oathgate Spren

 

Edited July 4, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[lacrossedeamon]

On 7/3/2025 at 2:39 PM, VersatileThrenodite said:

Could it be Odium and Ambition fighting? The next line is he made them attack each other and rode the resulting wave across the sea? This doesn't feel right I'll admit because it seems like they have familiarity with the Nephilim. Maybe Odium and Honor clashing we know it created the shattered plains but what effect would it have had in the cognitive realm. Maybe the people of first of the sun are the sailors on the infinite sea mentioned in one of the stories we hear in Stormlight Archive.

I think it's Aona and Skai (although that seemingly contradicts the timeline given in a wob). Alternatively its a different clash between Vessels but those also have issues: Rayse and Tanavast didn't both die; Vin and Ati seem to late in the timeline. Least helpful would be if its just some unknown other contest of champions and the fact these are called "giants" while Ambition is referred to as "a distant god" could imply that. I think the bit about Cakoban making them fight is him as a cultural hero being attributed some stuff he wasn't actual the cause of.

Edited July 6, 2025 by lacrossedeamon

[Brgst13]

Another alternative explanation is that the "two giants" are two large societies, where one chased him into the other's territory and he escaped when the second attacked the first.

[lacrossedeamon]

12 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

Another alternative explanation is that the "two giants" are two large societies, where one chased him into the other's territory and he escaped when the second attacked the first.

Also a possibility. If so I could see it being reference to trune and fainlife but that might be too early.

[Wallaby]

I feel like there's a lot more to untangle in Cakoban's story!

First, re: whether it's worth digging into the details and interpreting them carefully, I suspect it is. Some of the details may have gotten fuzzier over time, but the Loremothers' oral tradition sound quite rigorous. Brandon goes out of his way to write about this detail, and a big theme of Emberdark is not overlooking the traditional wisdom of pre-industrial societies. As Dusk says in Chapter 57:

Quote

“The loremothers are forced to be impartial. The words they memorize? They are overseen and tested by the covens, as it has always been. They meet every year to repeat the stories and check for inaccuracies. Just because something is oral, and done an older way, does not make it untrustworthy.”

I would actually guess that inaccuracies are mostly due to (1) misunderstandings of what was going on from the eyewitnesses in Cakoban's time, or (2) maybe intentional obfuscation, like how Cakoban said to Jope:

Quote

“Tell them I knew I could defeat it.” He tossed the jar of light up a foot and caught it as it fell. “Tell them I did defeat it. And then I sailed on, for new adventures, eh? My children will like that.”

With this in mind, here the full story from chapter 3 of Emberdark as told by Loremother Frond. After each quote, I'll highlight a few things that stood out to me that haven't been discussed yet in this thread.

Quote

“After Cakoban made a deal with the great winged statue, who promised to come to him when next he needed help, he escaped by sailing between the legs of the great giants of Epelli! First one, then the other, so they attacked each other in their confusion! He rode the waves of their falling clubs. And when their great bodies crashed to the ocean—dead—he had the grandest wave of all, which carried him three days across the endless sea!”

• The conflict between giants created waves in the cognitive realm
• Those waves physically transported Cakoban (so they're much stronger than the current pulses from the Knell)
• Both giants crashed to the ocean, dead 
• The death created the biggest wave of all, carrying Cakoban's ship for 3 days

This part suggests to me that the giants are shard-level powers. The present-day Knell is probably a lot weaker than it once was, and Cakoban was closer to the source, but the death carrying him for 3 days suggests that proximity can't be the only explanation. My guess is that the giants were major parts (but not all) of Odium and Ambition. When they died, Odium was severely weakened, and Ambition perhaps more so (to the point where Mercy finished him off).

Quote

“Cakoban,” she whispered, “followed a brilliant shooting star, which led him past the cave of the terrible Dakwara, the monster child of a distant god. Cakoban valiantly defeated that beast, for the monster would have swallowed all the world. He blinded it with the light of a torch, as light was a thing the monster knew not, then tricked the giant serpent into tying itself in knots.

• The shooting star was described as "brilliant" (which suggests that it's a light source in the otherwise pitch black Emberdark) 
• The Dakwara is not described as the child of one of the giants, but instead as the "child of a distant god"
• Light can "blind" the Dakwara, and is a thing that the Dakwara "knew not"

A few things here:

• We see presumably Invested light in both the shooting star and the "torch" that Cakoban uses against the Dakwara (which might be from the same source as the jar of light that he holds -- see the last quote in this post). Given that the Type 1-6 entity that chases Starling's ship eats an entire cargo hold worth of unkeyed Light, I'm guessing that Cakoban did not have enough in his jar to physically blind the Dakwara. But he could maybe metaphorically "blind" it by getting it to chase him in circles until it somehow gets stuck. A jar of light could be just the right tool for that.
   
• This one is going out on a bit of a limb, but one of the places where we've see Invested light is Taldain, where Autonomy has Invested the blue supergiant star and rains down this light on the entire planet. Given that Patji is an avatar of Autonomy, I wonder if the Eelakin were originally from Taldain, and the shooting star was some manifestation of Autonomy guiding their people to a new planet where they can seek freedom for themselves... 
   
• The Dakwara is strongly implied to be a splinter of Ambition, so it being described as the child of a distant god instead of one of the giants seems to go against my theory from earlier about the giants being big parts of Ambition and Odium. Not quite sure what to make of this — it could be that I'm making something out of nothing, or maybe there's something more complicated going on here. 
   

Quote

“The Dakwara was forced to acknowledge it was defeated—for with great monsters, you do not beat them by killing them, but by surviving. When Cakoban untied it, he sent it to protect his daughter and his kin for a hundred years. With a respect gained for people, when it came to our land, it served Patji—and created the islands. But that was not yet, and our story is not of those tales.”

• The Dakwara was forced to acknowledge it was defeated (which suggests that it was already bound by some kind of rules / honor)
• The Dakwara was involved in creating the islands

Rules seem to be an important check on several Cosmere antagonists, including Odium's promises and the Simple Rules from Shadows for Silence. I wonder if there's a more general Cosmere principle at work here. Also, given the Dakwara's involvement, I wonder if the murderous creatures on Patji are the result of parts of the Evil interfacing with Autonomy? 

Quote

“After defeating the Dakwara, Cakoban searched long in that region, until nearly dying of starvation, for he knew that a beast such as the Dakwara must be guarding a sight truly grand! Then Patji—honoring Cakoban’s courage—rose from the ocean and erupted with blazing red light, leading the way to life. A thrown ember became the sun, and Cakoban found Patji’s shores. He returned to his kind, and led them to this new land, where Patji had ordered islands created. There, he found home—for all of us.”

• Patji "rose from the ocean" with blazing red light, and only later "ordered islands created"
• An ember of this light became the sun

This makes me wonder whether the shooting star was actually just Patji (the avatar of Autonomy, not the island), and whether "rising from the ocean" meant creating the entire solar system + perpendicularity out of the the unsea. The way Brandon wrote this, it makes it sound like it was a volcanic eruption that created the main island that is now called Patji. But an ember of a volcanic eruption becoming the sun? And the islands were created by the Dakwara under Patji's instruction, not by this eruption.

Anyways, this post is already far too long and parts of it really go out on a limb. But I think quite a bit of it is reasonable, and if true, there are some pretty big lore implications here! Would love to hear your thoughts.
 

[lacrossedeamon]

14 hours ago, Wallaby said:

• The conflict between giants created waves in the cognitive realm
• Those waves physically transported Cakoban (so they're much stronger than the current pulses from the Knell)
• Both giants crashed to the ocean, dead 
• The death created the biggest wave of all, carrying Cakoban's ship for 3 days

This part suggests to me that the giants are shard-level powers. The present-day Knell is probably a lot weaker than it once was, and Cakoban was closer to the source, but the death carrying him for 3 days suggests that proximity can't be the only explanation. My guess is that the giants were major parts (but not all) of Odium and Ambition. When they died, Odium was severely weakened, and Ambition perhaps more so (to the point where Mercy finished him off).

 

• The Dakwara is not described as the child of one of the giants, but instead as the "child of a distant god"

 

• The Dakwara is strongly implied to be a splinter of Ambition, so it being described as the child of a distant god instead of one of the giants seems to go against my theory from earlier about the giants being big parts of Ambition and Odium. Not quite sure what to make of this — it could be that I'm making something out of nothing, or maybe there's something more complicated going on here. 

Apparently the term "Epelli" has been used in some of his trunked Yolen novels. So either Yolish or Shardic related. If not for the WoB stating Aona and Skai died before Ambition I would say they are the most likely candidates. But I could see it being a previous contest of champions or more metaphorically as two societies or cultures fighting.

 

14 hours ago, Wallaby said:

• This one is going out on a bit of a limb, but one of the places where we've see Invested light is Taldain, where Autonomy has Invested the blue supergiant star and rains down this light on the entire planet. Given that Patji is an avatar of Autonomy, I wonder if the Eelakin were originally from Taldain, and the shooting star was some manifestation of Autonomy guiding their people to a new planet where they can seek freedom for themselves... 

I want to point out that we know of two formerly abandoned cities: the Diem on Taldain and Elantris on Sel. The Eelakin could be from either of these before the now current residents found them empty and moved in. Another option for both though is the Iriali. Additionally we have a WoB about Autonomous influence on Sel.
 

14 hours ago, Wallaby said:

• Patji "rose from the ocean" with blazing red light, and only later "ordered islands created"
• An ember of this light became the sun

This makes me wonder whether the shooting star was actually just Patji (the avatar of Autonomy, not the island), and whether "rising from the ocean" meant creating the entire solar system + perpendicularity out of the the unsea. The way Brandon wrote this, it makes it sound like it was a volcanic eruption that created the main island that is now called Patji. But an ember of a volcanic eruption becoming the sun? And the islands were created by the Dakwara under Patji's instruction, not by this eruption.

Anyways, this post is already far too long and parts of it really go out on a limb. But I think quite a bit of it is reasonable, and if true, there are some pretty big lore implications here! Would love to hear your thoughts.
 

One thing to note here is that per Dusk's vision the loremothers got the order of events a bit mixed up. The Eelakin made it to Patji and had started settling before running into the Dakwara which they found while exploring the surrounding cognitive realm after arriving. This could have some implications to the whole myth.

One thing I think is possible is that the migration might have taken multiple generations with the myth Cakoban being a composite character of the historical Cakoban who was the last leader of the group and previous leaders whose names have been lost.

[Wallaby]

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Apparently the term "Epelli" has been used in some of his trunked Yolen novels. So either Yolish or Shardic related. If not for the WoB stating Aona and Skai died before Ambition I would say they are the most likely candidates. But I could see it being a previous contest of champions or more metaphorically as two societies or cultures fighting.

Oh interesting! I would bet Shardic related then, given the power level of the death. It did occur to me that it could be two societies fighting, but then the waves carrying Cakoban would also have to be metaphorical (fleeing conflict perhaps?), unless somehow there was far future technology or a huge amount of Investiture involved. Still, having a wave that carried him for 3 days seems oddly specific for a metaphorical wave.

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I want to point out that we know of two formerly abandoned cities: the Diem on Taldain and Elantris on Sel. The Eelakin could be from either of these before the now current residents found them empty and moved in. Another option for both though is the Iriali. Additionally we have a WoB about Autonomous influence on Sel.

Yeah Sel is definitely another possibility. The jar of "light" could be glowing just because it's concentrated Investiture, and could even be a kind we haven't seen yet. 

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

One thing to note here is that per Dusk's vision the loremothers got the order of events a bit mixed up. The Eelakin made it to Patji and had started settling before running into the Dakwara which they found while exploring the surrounding cognitive realm after arriving. This could have some implications to the whole myth.

One thing I think is possible is that the migration might have taken multiple generations with the myth Cakoban being a composite character of the historical Cakoban who was the last leader of the group and previous leaders whose names have been lost.

Ooh, good point. In Dusk's vision, right before Cakoban takes on the Dakwara, he is leading several people, including Jope (who is presumably his sister's lover) to the "place with the portal". Also, he drinks from the jar of Investiture, which does suggest that it's a new kind we haven't seen yet. 

Quote

“Cakoban gestured for the closer man to take the rudder. He did so, and Cakoban climbed along the ship to the center, where he took out a small glowing jar. Filled with worms? No…a thick golden liquid. He drank, then hit his chest—which released a sound, almost like that of a tuning fork.

In a moment, Dusk could hear the pulse coming from that distant place—the one that washed over this darkness, unheard by most. Cakoban’s eyes began to glow, and he hit his chest again, releasing a distinctive golden sound.”

A revision of the theory based on this might be:

• The shooting star first led Cakoban to the place in the unsea, where either it creates the system (embedding this into the Eelekin creation myth), or the system had already been created
• Cakoban goes through the perpendicularity and finds a land that he'd want to lead people to (not infested with deathants and nightmaws)
• He leads several waves of migration there, and on the trip where he takes Jope, they encounter a part of the Evil, which was attracted by the Investiture from him Navigating
• He then defeats the entity by sacrificing his own life (I somehow forgot this part despite finishing the book 3 days ago!)
• Some combination of Cakoban's sacrifice and Frost's subsequent actions causes the entity to be bound to his will. The entity is then trapped at the location of the island in the Cognitive realm.
• A byproduct of this (somehow) is the creation of the various monsters on Patji, which effectively cut off First of the Sun from outsiders (this could satisfy the Dakwara creating the islands bit -- it created not the land itself, but the islands as they currently are. This could even be an early system for planetary defense.)
• Finally, over millenia, the entity (which is originally described as having many arms), gets shaped into the Dakwara by the telling and retelling of the creation myth. Perhaps the way it's told was even an intentional choice (informed by Frost?) so that the entity would be shaped in this particular way. 

 

 

[Isilel]

16 hours ago, Wallaby said:

Still, having a wave that carried him for 3 days seems oddly specific for a metaphorical wave.

IMHO, while there is a lot of truth in the story, parts of it still aren't literally true, but only metaphorically, and the sequence of events is out of order.

We see the real origins of some of the aspects of the story in Dusk's vision of the past:

The 3-days storm happened to Cakoban and his companions when they went back to explore Shadesmar _after_  depositing the rest of their people on "the deadly islands".

He didn't know what caused it and the islands clearly pre-existed the arrival of Eelakin on the planet and had nothing to do with the Dakwara. Presumably, other  Eelakin explored the seas in the physical realm until they found the more congenial archipelago isles and lead the rest of their people to settle there. 

How the Eelakin survived on Patji long enough for the safe archipelago to be discovered is a bit of a puzzle, but they had invested abilities - Cakoban's companion Japo, for example, could produce a "mindshield", so that probably helped. Also, IIRC Dusk noted somewhere in his flashback that the Pantheon isles were slowly, but gradually becoming more deadly, IIRC, so maybe it wasn't quite that bad back in the day?

The "wave" is "the Current" that flows from the Knell. We saw in the vision that Cakoban's people had sails that could be pushed by it. 

The "torch" was Cakoban's shining investiture jar, that he used to attract the Entity's attention. He used this investiture to impose his own perception and belief on the Entity and bind it to the isle. That's something that they are particularly vulnerable to, because their original Intent had been torn out of them, as was explained in Starling's chapter. 

"the winged statue" was the dragon Frost.

What "the shooting star" was is currently unknown, unless it was just a flowery description of Cakoban's exceptionally strong navigation ability that let him detect the Patji Perpendicularity from far away.

 

Edited August 19, 2025 by Isilel

[Ihaven0taste]

Don't mean to raise a dead thread but is it possible in the timeline that the storm referred to on page 446 in chapter 52 is the everstorm? 

"In the dream, Dusk knew his ancestor’s mind. They’d dropped most of their people at the new land—the one with the deadly islands. Cakoban had left again on a long expedition, with three other ships, to search the darkness. They’d been separated during a strange storm, and when he’d used his senses to find one of the other ships, he found it wrecked on an island with no survivors. But something else had been watching it."

 

[iceblade44 he/him]

I don't think that's likely.  Until we get wob confirmation it shouldn't be the long since the events on Roshar. A couple centuries at most. Starling still says its been 10,000 years since the Shattering