How did Kelsier make the bands of mourning without allomancy?

[king of nowhere]

supposedly, kelsier could make the bands of mourning because he had all powers.

attempts by people with a single power to create more elaborate medalions failed.

however, we later learn that kelsier never recovered his powers after death.

so, how did he make the bands?

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

supposedly, kelsier could make the bands of mourning because he had all powers.

attempts by people with a single power to create more elaborate medalions failed.

however, we later learn that kelsier never recovered his powers after death.

so, how did he make the bands?

Short answer is we don't actually know that Kelsier made them (only that the Malwish credit the Sovereign, who was later implied to be Kelsier) and we don't know how they were made.

We do have these short WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

So I've always wondered, the Bands of Mourning, the actual spearhead that Wax uses. Was that made by the Lord Ruler or the Sovereign, or--

Brandon Sanderson

No. It was not made by the Lord Ruler. The Sovereign was involved.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

Quote

CannotHaveMyPain

Did Kelsier create the Bands of Mourning? Does he want them back and did he get them back?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! There's stuff going on there for sure.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

It's all meant to be RAFO because the next Era will (hopefully) answer some of these questions. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

There is a very high possibility that Spook was the one to actually make them, considering the epilogue of Secret History with Kelsier recruiting Spook, who was turned into a Mistborn by Harmony and thus had half of the powers, with Kelsier making plans to get him Feruchemy via Hemalurgy.

We also know that Kel saved the Malwish as the Sovereign 10 years after the Catacendre, so he and Spook both figured out Unsealed Metalminds, the Bands of Mourning and how to give himself a physical body all within a decade. 

Not bad for a guy who knew basically rust all about the Cosmere and Investiture just 11 years beforehand.

[Duxredux he/him]

Hypothesis time. Spook is the Bands of Mourning. More specifically, Spook followed his own philosophy that at the end of life for a Metalborn, they would offer themselves up as a Hemalurgic donor to enhance future generations. If it takes the death of a natural Mistborn to make the Bands that addresses the power creep issue of a manufactured TLR. It may also explain why Kelsier didn't just keep the Bands with him if it took the sacrifice of one of his oldest friends to make. It also recontextualizes the name "Bands of Mourning" when we know that it a spearhead made of bands of each of the metals.

As for mechanics, we still don't know how Unsealed Metalminds are made, but then the Bands may have used an alternative method. That may explain how in Era 2 I think we only see Feruchemical abilities granted by the Medallions while the Bands grant Allomancy. Maybe Marsh and Kelsier (and maybe some of those dead Malwish at the Sovereign's temple) gave Spook access to Unkeyed Metalminds of the various attributes which he burned to give him massive stores of Feruchemical power just before he was ??? and ??? thus becoming the Bands.

Yes, there is a lot of speculation and unknowns, but if a Mistborn can be made into the Bands of Mourning with the proper knowledge and equipment, that is exactly the kind of secret Kelsier would take to other people's graves.

 

My other guess would be Marsh as the manufacturer. He had 22 spikes at last count, both Allomancy and Feruchemy, a much more in-depth knowledge of Hemalurgy than anyone living (excluding Sazed), and we know that he cracked the Identity contamination issue with Hemalurgy-based Compounding as that is how he has extended his life for 300 years. Depending on how long it took for Ruin to become subservient to Preservation and limit the maximum number of powers gained through Hemalurgy, it's quite possible that Marsh has the most powers possible for anyone without resorting to Lerasium, which certainly wasn't available between the Catacendre and TLM. Or making the Bands could have a collaboration, which seems pretty likely regardless.

Edited May 30, 2025 by Duxredux

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

12 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Hypothesis time. Spook is the Bands of Mourning. More specifically, Spook followed his own philosophy that at the end of life for a Metalborn, they would offer themselves up as a Hemalurgic donor to enhance future generations. If it takes the death of a natural Mistborn to make the Bands that addresses the power creep issue of a manufactured TLR. It may also explain why Kelsier didn't just keep the Bands with him if it took the sacrifice of one of his oldest friends to make. It also recontextualizes the name "Bands of Mourning" when we know that it a spearhead made of bands of each of the metals.

Interesting theory.

We know that Spook ruled the Basin as the Lord Mistborn for a century before stepping down and vanishing, his death is neither confirmed nor denied by Brandon. We also know that Kelsier ruled over the Southerners for a time as the Sovereign, though we have no idea for how long, only that it was long enough to help rebuild their civilizations, and to build a massive stone temple to hide the Bands, which would have to have been created beforehand otherwise why bother building the temple to hide the Bands if they weren't made?

So, the only way this theory works is if Kelsier spent nearly a century ruling the Southern Scadrians before making the Bands with Spook and hiding them, or maybe he made the temple first, then hid the Bands there after he made them?

I dunno, looking this from a timeline perspective makes it seem a bit less likely to me.

And if Spook's Allomancy was put into the Bands, then why are they just a tappable feruchemical attribute instead of like the Medallions where you touch them and have the power without being able to tap more or less of it, which WOB states is "like a Coppermind", which isn't how the Bands work, as they act like a regular Metalmind where they have a certain amount of power stored up and that's it.

If the method to create the Bands is so costly, then it makes sense why they never made more than one, especially if the Main Component is the sacrifice of a natural Mistborn, which don't exist anymore without more Lerasium. So, I dunno, maybe your theory has some things right.

[Denissimo He/him]

Theoretically, Spook could still be alive and I hope he shows up in Era 3.
Spook is, in all likelyhood, Kelsier's greatest ally at the moment; I believe Spook worked for Kelsier the same way Wax worked for Harmony; Kind of like the "Sword of Kelsier" kind of thing, at least while Kel didn't have a physical form.

I am also unsure about the creation of the bands of mourning, however. It was stated that they would grant ALL allomantic and Feruchemical powers, so says the coppermind,
I have some confusion about this: only HEMALURGY can grant Feruchemical and Allomantic power, while the coppermind implies it is a METALMIND, and feruchemy cannot grant other powers.

This, I think, implies there is some other manifestation of Investiture on Scadrial, or at least some unknown metal or way you can use feruchemy.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 hour ago, Denisimo said:

Theoretically, Spook could still be alive and I hope he shows up in Era 3.
Spook is, in all likelyhood, Kelsier's greatest ally at the moment; I believe Spook worked for Kelsier the same way Wax worked for Harmony; Kind of like the "Sword of Kelsier" kind of thing, at least while Kel didn't have a physical form.

I am also unsure about the creation of the bands of mourning, however. It was stated that they would grant ALL allomantic and Feruchemical powers, so says the coppermind,
I have some confusion about this: only HEMALURGY can grant Feruchemical and Allomantic power, while the coppermind implies it is a METALMIND, and feruchemy cannot grant other powers.

This, I think, implies there is some other manifestation of Investiture on Scadrial, or at least some unknown metal or way you can use feruchemy.

NICROSIL

[Denissimo He/him]

1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

NICROSIL

I STAND CORRECTED: So the bands DEFINITELY contain Nicrosil, or at least probably. Some way or another.

[Born of Mist He/Him]

Wait, don't the Bands Grant you feruchemy? Then how did Kelsier/Spook get feruchemy?

[Nitpicking]

1 hour ago, Born of Mist said:

Wait, don't the Bands Grant you feruchemy? Then how did Kelsier/Spook get feruchemy?

What makes you think Spook ever had feruchemy?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

On 6/11/2025 at 11:07 PM, Denisimo said:

I STAND CORRECTED: So the bands DEFINITELY contain Nicrosil, or at least probably. Some way or another.

YES

ALL HAIL THE NICROSIL METAL MIND

3 hours ago, Born of Mist said:

Wait, don't the Bands Grant you feruchemy? Then how did Kelsier/Spook get feruchemy?

NICROSIL

[Born of Mist He/Him]

On 6/15/2025 at 10:50 PM, Nitpicking said:

What makes you think Spook ever had feruchemy?

Because the bands grant feruchemy, someone had to be both a allomancer and a feruchemist to make the bands grant both.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

12 minutes ago, Born of Mist said:

Because the bands grant feruchemy, someone had to be both a allomancer and a feruchemist to make the bands grant both.

NICROSIL

[Born of Mist He/Him]

23 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

NICROSIL

I GOT THAT.

[clowncarcrash]

On 5/30/2025 at 12:11 PM, Duxredux said:

Hypothesis time. Spook is the Bands of Mourning. More specifically, Spook followed his own philosophy that at the end of life for a Metalborn, they would offer themselves up as a Hemalurgic donor to enhance future generations. If it takes the death of a natural Mistborn to make the Bands that addresses the power creep issue of a manufactured TLR. It may also explain why Kelsier didn't just keep the Bands with him if it took the sacrifice of one of his oldest friends to make. It also recontextualizes the name "Bands of Mourning" when we know that it a spearhead made of bands of each of the metals.

 

oh man that is so morbid and metal (pun intended), its like kelsier is the real kandra utilizing spook's body to the extreme degree. 

[Duxredux he/him]

On 6/17/2025 at 12:31 PM, CoderDrag0n8 said:

NICROSIL

So... if my understanding is right, that by itself wouldn't get Spook Feruchemy. A-Nicrosil enhances a target's burn and H-Nicrosil harvests raw Investiture, which is separate from the power granting metals. F-Nicrosil with an Unsealed Metalmind can bestow Feruchemy... but in this case it's a chicken and egg problem. Someone has to have the Feruchemical power to store into the Nicrosilmind in the first place in addition to someway to manipulate or otherwise blank the Identity of the storage. At this point, Sazed was the last Feruchemist and he's Ascended, and I believe all other Steel Inquisitors are dead. They have no Lerasium either, Hoid and Elend used the last known samples on Scadrial until Wax accidentally manufactures some in TLM. The only one with any Feruchemical abilities at all directly after the Catacendre is Marsh - though they do have a pile of Inquisitor spikes to experiment with along with all the complications of Hemalurgic granted powers. Unless the South has access to metalborn, that's what they've got.

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

So... if my understanding is right, that by itself wouldn't get Spook Feruchemy. A-Nicrosil enhances a target's burn and H-Nicrosil harvests raw Investiture, which is separate from the power granting metals. F-Nicrosil with an Unsealed Metalmind can bestow Feruchemy... but in this case it's a chicken and egg problem. Someone has to have the Feruchemical power to store into the Nicrosilmind in the first place in addition to someway to manipulate or otherwise blank the Identity of the storage. At this point, Sazed was the last Feruchemist and he's Ascended, and I believe all other Steel Inquisitors are dead. They have no Lerasium either, Hoid and Elend used the last known samples on Scadrial until Wax accidentally manufactures some in TLM. The only one with any Feruchemical abilities at all directly after the Catacendre is Marsh - though they do have a pile of Inquisitor spikes to experiment with along with all the complications of Hemalurgic granted powers. Unless the South has access to metalborn, that's what they've got.

Feruchemists would start popping up, because we know the terrismen still have it in their sDNA, and we know that Kelsier knew about unsealed metalminds before he went to the south.

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, Duxredux said:

The only one with any Feruchemical abilities at all directly after the Catacendre is Marsh - though they do have a pile of Inquisitor spikes to experiment with along with all the complications of Hemalurgic granted powers. Unless the South has access to metalborn, that's what they've got.

Correction - The only person with access to Feruchemy during the Catacendre was Marsh. The Terris Refugees nearly all made it hidden in the Kandra Homeland, so full Feruchemists would have continued to be born (to two Terris parents) post-Catacendre until the Allomantic and Ferchemical heredity lines mixed enough to create Ferrings instead of Full Feruchemists.