Pewter... And Shardplate?

[Lopens Tenth Cousin he/him]

So I had an absolutely insane idea. Shardplate enhances the physical strength of the wearer, and both allomantic and feruchemic pewter provide enhanced strength within the user as well. There was a whole discussion of the strength of shardplate right here,

 

but I was wondering whether that was the limit of the shardplate, or if the shardplate was limited by the strength of the person. If someone was burning or tapping Pewter while wearing shardplate, what's the theoretical limit of what they could do? Dalinar leaped about 8ft in the air wearing shardplate (thanks @Green Hoodie Mistborn), and Allomantic Pewter also enhances how high you could jump - would you be able to do a hulk leap and smash? Could you lift up some ridiculously heavy objects? Or would the shardplate actually limit your jump height as a Pewterarm, but increase your natural strength? Some other combo?

 

Sorry I just had to barf this out of my head real quick before I went insane.

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

13 minutes ago, Lopens Tenth Cousin said:

So I had an absolutely insane idea. Shardplate enhances the physical strength of the wearer, and both allomantic and feruchemic pewter provide enhanced strength within the user as well. There was a whole discussion of the strength of shardplate right here,

 

but I was wondering whether that was the limit of the shardplate, or if the shardplate was limited by the strength of the person. If someone was burning or tapping Pewter while wearing shardplate, what's the theoretical limit of what they could do? Dalinar leaped about 8ft in the air wearing shardplate (thanks @Green Hoodie Mistborn), and Allomantic Pewter also enhances how high you could jump - would you be able to do a hulk leap and smash? Could you lift up some ridiculously heavy objects? Or would the shardplate actually limit your jump height as a Pewterarm, but increase your natural strength? Some other combo?

 

Sorry I just had to barf this out of my head real quick before I went insane.

This is basically my Cosmere RP character Carnee, he's a thug and full shardbearer. Pretty powerful if you ask me.  

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Lopens Tenth Cousin said:

Allomantic Pewter also enhances how high you could jump - would you be able to do a hulk leap and smash? Could you lift up some ridiculously heavy objects? Or would the shardplate actually limit your jump height as a Pewterarm, but increase your natural strength?

Most likely the second - Pewterarming increases like this are based on the square-cube law(?) (as discussed in WoA) so the additional mass would likely severly inhibit the ability to leap and other body-weight based feats of strength. 

(?) SCLaw may not be the correct reference here - but @DrPhysics or other specialists could verify/clarify. 

WoA Ch 6:

Spoiler

Ham, however, recovered quickly. He let the force of Vin’s blow spin him around, and he used the momentum to bring his staff around in a powerful blow aimed directly at Vin’s chest.

Elend cried out.

Vin jumped.

She didn’t have metal to Push against, but that didn’t seem to matter. She sprang a good seven feet in the air, easily cresting Ham’s staff. She flipped as the swing passed beneath her, her fingers brushing the air just above the weapon, her own staff spinning in a one-handed grip.

Vin landed, her staff already howling in a low swing, its tip throwing up a line of ash as it ran along the ground. It slammed into the back of Ham’s legs. The blow swept Ham’s feet out from beneath him, and he cried out as he fell.

<snip>

“Now, most Thugs—myself included—figure that making their bodies strong will only add to their power. After all, a muscular man burning pewter will be that much stronger than a regular man of the same Allomantic power.”

Ham rubbed his chin, eyeing the passage Vin had left through. “But…well, I’m beginning to think that there might be another way. Vin’s a thin little thing, but when she burns pewter, she grows several times stronger than any normal warrior. She packs all that strength into a small body, and doesn’t have to bother with the weight of massive muscles. She’s like…an insect. Far stronger than her mass or her body would indicate. So, when she jumps, she can jump.”

“But you’re still stronger than she is,” Spook said.

Ham nodded. “And I can make use of that—assuming I can ever hit her. That’s getting harder and harder to do.”

More interestingly, it's likely that the same (or related) Realmatic processes are being used to increase physical strength in these situations. Which could either make the secondary benefit redundant, or could possibly make it stack like an A-Pewter Misting with an A-Pewter Spike (much like Vin's increased Bronze due to her spike). If stacking, there is likely a diminshing returns effect limiting how much increase can be accessed this way. 

Edited March 17, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[DoctaDajman]

2 hours ago, Lopens Tenth Cousin said:

So I had an absolutely insane idea. Shardplate enhances the physical strength of the wearer, and both allomantic and feruchemic pewter provide enhanced strength within the user as well. There was a whole discussion of the strength of shardplate right here,

 

but I was wondering whether that was the limit of the shardplate, or if the shardplate was limited by the strength of the person. If someone was burning or tapping Pewter while wearing shardplate, what's the theoretical limit of what they could do? Dalinar leaped about 8ft in the air wearing shardplate (thanks @Green Hoodie Mistborn), and Allomantic Pewter also enhances how high you could jump - would you be able to do a hulk leap and smash? Could you lift up some ridiculously heavy objects? Or would the shardplate actually limit your jump height as a Pewterarm, but increase your natural strength? Some other combo?

 

Sorry I just had to barf this out of my head real quick before I went insane.

I think this is a multi part question.  The mix I envision in my mind is this.  

Strength in plate is not effected by strength of the user. 

Speed and dexterity in the plate is effected by speed of the user. (To an extent).  

If... and this is a big if as I have seen some convincing posts that argue the absurdity of this claim... If shardplate does weigh more than half a ton, then I dont think any user inside of it is going to be effecting the strength. Its like power armor and the only reason it moves at all is because of the stormlight that is powering it. I dont think a pewter arm would be able to move the plate on their own. A pewter compounder who has hacked the system to not grow their mass might be able to... 

So in my opinion, anyone wearing plate is going to have a set amount of strength from that armor, which would limit the height of a jump to how much the stormlight powered armor is able to jump. 

Speed and dexterity in plate are going to be effected by the user but to a limit. I think that the shardplates ability to move will be the limiting factor. We see that users feel like the plate isn't even there. They can feel through the plate and it moves seamlessly. So this is where real benefits of stacking powers comes into play. 

I think that F pewter would be entirely replaced by shardplate and your ability to tap enough pewter to move locked plate would be limited by the shape of the plate itself. 

I think A pewter would not add any strength to the plate but you would be benefited by the fact that A pewter moves faster and more fluidly... the plate will simply amplify all of that. 

I think F steel is the real winner here. Being able to move the plate at blurring speeds is pretty busted. In fact F steel benefits more from the plate because plate will allow F steel to be used to its fullest period. WoBs say that that using f steel could cause friction to burn up the ferring at high tap rates. Plate will completely protect you from that. Also the plate is going to power through moving everything at those speeds far better (things get heavier when they move faster). 

I know this isn't cannon but one of the "From Brandon" sections in the MAG states this: 

Spoiler

Tapping speed is one of a Feruchemist’s most powerful tools, but rememberthat the Metallic Arts are all about rami cations and consequences. For example,dramatically increasing your speed and hitting someone with an iron bar whilerunning past them might do a lot of damage, but the hand(s) and arm(s) holdingthe bar are jolted backward with the same force. At a certain point the Narratoris fully justi ed in applying some of the character’s damage back on him or her,and this can result in serious injury, or even a Burden.

Plate would completely negate this drawback.  Perhaps plate will limit how fast a ferring can move but even if you could triple or quadruple your speed in plate being able to get the full 10x strength benefits from it and not being robbed of any kinetic energy because of the losses of tapping Speed you would be an absolute train of an opponent. I dont even think you would need any weapons. Running 80mph in a 1300lb suit of armor will make you a wrecking ball. 

[Argenti he/him]

2 hours ago, Lopens Tenth Cousin said:

So I had an absolutely insane idea. Shardplate enhances the physical strength of the wearer, and both allomantic and feruchemic pewter provide enhanced strength within the user as well. There was a whole discussion of the strength of shardplate right here,

 

but I was wondering whether that was the limit of the shardplate, or if the shardplate was limited by the strength of the person. If someone was burning or tapping Pewter while wearing shardplate, what's the theoretical limit of what they could do? Dalinar leaped about 8ft in the air wearing shardplate (thanks @Green Hoodie Mistborn), and Allomantic Pewter also enhances how high you could jump - would you be able to do a hulk leap and smash? Could you lift up some ridiculously heavy objects? Or would the shardplate actually limit your jump height as a Pewterarm, but increase your natural strength? Some other combo?

I honestly can't say it would change much. Shardplate is power armor, you're not literally getting stronger, as the case is for pewter, it's more like the shardplate is doing the lifting for you. Adolin and Dalinar are about the same strength-wise in shardplate, despite being dramatically different in strengths otherwise. Pewter doubles, or triple a person's natural strength, which shouldn't change much as far as strength goes. I'll say, however, that burning pewter while in shardplate isn't a bad idea, it improves your endurance and reflexes, which probably isn't artificially limited like strength is.