Call it a Full Feruchemist for heavens sake!

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

Does anyone else have this problem? Instead of referring to someone who has all the feruchemical powers as "full feruchemist", they just call them a feruchemist! It's infuriating! I have the same argument with one of my brothers every other day about this, and I am just wondering if anyone else has this issue.

My explanation (because looking at a coppermind page isn't enough to change their minds):

Two types of metalborn, Allomancers and Feruchemists. Each can be divided into two categories: One metal for Misting and Ferring, and all metals with Mistborn and Full Feruchemists. The reason we don't call them Full Mistborn is because they do not use the name of the art in the name like Full Feruchemists do.

[Treamayne]

7 hours ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

Does anyone else have this problem?

This is answered in-text (spoilers for Wind and Truth).

I will note that because scientific knowledge and the application of the scientific method is changing terminolgy (not to mention Worldhoppers and linguistic exchange) there may be some disparity, for now, in terms used by Scadrians and terms used by non-Scadrians.

[Duxredux he/him]

8 hours ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

Does anyone else have this problem? Instead of referring to someone who has all the feruchemical powers as "full feruchemist", they just call them a feruchemist! It's infuriating! I have the same argument with one of my brothers every other day about this, and I am just wondering if anyone else has this issue.

My explanation (because looking at a coppermind page isn't enough to change their minds):

Two types of metalborn, Allomancers and Feruchemists. Each can be divided into two categories: One metal for Misting and Ferring, and all metals with Mistborn and Full Feruchemists. The reason we don't call them Full Mistborn is because they do not use the name of the art in the name like Full Feruchemists do.

Yup, as @Treamayne talked about, their terminology is changing. We started with Feruchemist because that was synonymous with what you would like to call a Full Feruchemist. That was the case from Classical Scadrial up to the Catacendre because there was no division in the powers. "Full" Feruchemist would have been a meaningless and redundant term which would have made no sense to Scadrians or arcanists.

By Era 2, the distinction is also moot. They don't have anything beyond Ferrings, so a "Feruchemist" is still someone who has Feruchemical abilities. They haven't had to make a distinction since there is no living and active Feruchemist with all 16 abilities (excluding Sazed) so the terminology hasn't had to change. 

As the population continues to grow and they have to make more frequent and important distinctions, I expect the terminology to also develop. I wrote a longer post on a related topic covering not just Feruchemy, but Hemalurgy and Medallion tech as well here: 

 

There's a lot that we don't have canonized terms for yet, and this is one of them. Should we as fans devise our own and Brandon canonizes a different term, we will have to unlearn it. Just like we would for the term "Fullborn" should Brandon create another person with access to the full suite of Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities.

 

To be clear, I also generally say "Full Feruchemist" when I want to reduce ambiguity, but I'm not going to try to finalize or vote on it. That's Brandon's call, not 17th Shard. 

[Quantus he/him]

30 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

 

There's a lot that we don't have canonized terms for yet, and this is one of them. Should we as fans devise our own and Brandon canonizes a different term, we will have to unlearn it. Just like we would for the term "Fullborn" should Brandon create another person with access to the full suite of Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities.

 

Can we talk about our "Fullborn" term for a minute, if that one's still just a Fan thing?  We might want to consider a new term, because one of the few known traits is that they cannot actually be Born.  Is FullForged too clunky? Alloyed, maybe?

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Can we talk about our "Fullborn" term for a minute, if that one's still just a Fan thing?  We might want to consider a new term, because one of the few known traits is that they cannot actually be Born.  Is FullForged too clunky? Alloyed, maybe?

I believe the term "fullborn" is used in Mistborn Era 2, making it canon. the same goes for "full feruchemist," but I'm not 100% on either of those 

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

There's a lot that we don't have canonized terms for yet, and this is one of them. Should we as fans devise our own and Brandon canonizes a different term, we will have to unlearn it. Just like we would for the term "Fullborn" should Brandon create another person with access to the full suite of Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities.

To be clear, I also generally say "Full Feruchemist" when I want to reduce ambiguity, but I'm not going to try to finalize or vote on it. That's Brandon's call, not 17th Shard. 

I object to that term anyway (which I am glad to see confirmed is a fan-term and not one that has ever been used in canon), because nobody has ever been "born" with the full complement of Metalborn powers, both Allomantic and Feruchemical.

There's only ever been one guy like that, Rashek, who was born a (Full) Feruchemist, and then twiddled himself to stack on (Full) Allomancy.

The only other people we've seen hold all 16x2 powers were Marasi and Wax wielding the Bands of Mourning, which doesn't count as being "born", eh?

We can assume that had Sazed or Tindwyl ever gotten hold of a bead of lerasium, that they would also have powerstacked in a similar fashion, but that's also not being "born" that way.

We even have a WoB that it'd be very, very unlikely for such a being to be born naturally -- and barring another act of Divine Intervention (which is essentially what Rashek did to himself while Ascended) is getting less and less likely as time progresses, being as we don't even have Mistborn or Full Feruchemists in Era 2 and the powers, have kind of reached a stable level in the post-Catacendre population by then.

Anyway, my two cents, from the POV of the end of Mistborn Era 2, the question boils down to: how would someone in Era 2 differentiate the term Ferring from Feruchemist?

All Ferrings are Metalborn Feruchemists -- someone able to access a Feruchemical power (at least one), just as all Mistings are Metalborn Allomancers (someone able to access an Allomantic power).

The distinction is one of innate (inborn) sDNA based power: not all Allomancers are Mistings. For example, Edwarn Ladrian exclaimed, "I made myself a Leecher!" to Wax, via hemalurgy. He was not, and never would be, a "metalborn" -- extract his spikes and he would lose those powers.

And thus, in the same fashion, not all Feruchemists are Ferrings.

A "full" Feruchemist is something the Terris community are apparently trying to breed back to (...?), and the Set may have been trying to breed back to a natural born "Mistborn" using the bloodlines of Spook, The Lord Mistborn.

Constructing a full Feruchemist artificially, as with hemalurgy, might also be possible...

In addition, "Ferrings" are usually referred to by a name like Brute for "Ferring with the power for pewter" in the way that an "Allomancer with the power for pewter" would be called a "Pewterarm" (or "Thug") rather than "Misting".

Given that Metalborn people are all born with the power in just one metal per power (with Twinborn being an extemely rare confluence), I think the terms "Misting" and "Ferring" are very rarely used by Era 2: only in a semi-academic context of the Theory of the Metallic Arts either when contrasting with the "theoretical" being with the full powerset, or when speaking of a "natural born Feruchemist or Allomancer" in contrast to someone who's artificially gained it.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

Can we talk about our "Fullborn" term for a minute

Just keep in mind that the Fandom created that term as a compound of Full Feruchemist + Mistborn. 

It was never meant to imply somebody born with all 32 abilties.

[Quantus he/him]

28 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Just keep in mind that the Fandom created that term as a compound of Full Feruchemist + Mistborn. 

It was never meant to imply somebody born with all 32 abilties.

I understand that, and it's definitely better than a Mistemist or similar, but I think we have an opportunity for a semantic course correction, unless it appeared already in era2 like @IcedOutPenguin said.  

[dezaS Hᴇ/Hɪᴍ]

Fullblessed?

As all users of the metallic arts are referred to as metalblessed (as hemalurgy becomes more widespread) this may be a more accurate term if we need to change it at all

but I see no problem with fullborn for the time being as it's the established fan term

Edited March 5, 2025 by dezaS

[+robardin he/him]

I just don't see the need to come up with a term for a 16x2 Metalborn when there has literally never been one, and it's now more difficult or unlikely than ever for there ever to be one.

You may as well just use the term "Rashekborn" for the concept, LOL

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

I just don't see the need to come up with a term for a 16x2 Metalborn when there has literally never been one, and it's now more difficult or unlikely than ever for there ever to be one.

You may as well just use the term "Rashekborn" for the concept, LOL

I do not think the stories will ever need the term.

Fans want the term for things like Fullborn Vs Hallandren God King. Rusting vs threads

[alder24]

On 3/5/2025 at 5:59 PM, robardin said:

I object to that term anyway (which I am glad to see confirmed is a fan-term and not one that has ever been used in canon), because nobody has ever been "born" with the full complement of Metalborn powers, both Allomantic and Feruchemical.

Should we stop calling Elend a Mistborn because he wasn't born as a Mistborn? The term Mistborn suggests those people are born from Mists - Snapped by them. This term certainly fits all who were Snapped by Mists when the Well was awakened, but other than that all other people like Vin, Kelsier, or Zane were not born from Mists - should we stop calling them Mistborns as well? No, it's just a naming convention that fits, which probably originated from those first Allomancers who were actually born from Mists (and weren't Mistborns). The term Fullborn is a mix between a Full Feruchemist and a Mistborn - for me it doesn't matter that Rashek made himself into a Fullborn and he wasn't born as such, just like it doesn't matter that Elend was made into a Mistborn by eating Lerasium. It's just a name that combines two existing names because those people are both Full Feruchemists and Mistborns at the same time and this name is in my opinion the best description of it. 

But from WoBs we know it's still possible for a person to be actually born with full access to both Allomancy and Feruchamy, so the term still fits even with the most literal interpretation. You can be born with the full complement of Metalborn powers.

Spoiler

Windrunner

Is it is even possible for a full Feruchemist Mistborn to be naturally born, or will the genes for the two interfere with one another too much?

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible, but highly unlikely.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 6, 2015)

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Should we stop calling Elend a Mistborn because he wasn't born as a Mistborn? The term Mistborn suggests those people are born from Mists - Snapped by them. This term certainly fits all who were Snapped by Mists when the Well was awakened, but other than that all other people like Vin, Kelsier, or Zane were not born from Mists - should we stop calling them Mistborns as well? No, it's just a naming convention that fits, which probably originated from those first Allomancers who were actually born from Mists (and weren't Mistborns). The term Fullborn is a mix between a Full Feruchemist and a Mistborn - for me it doesn't matter that Rashek made himself into a Fullborn and he wasn't born as such, just like it doesn't matter that Elend was made into a Mistborn by eating Lerasium. It's just a name that combines two existing names because those people are both Full Feruchemists and Mistborns at the same time and this name is in my opinion the best description of it. 

But from WoBs we know it's still possible for a person to be actually born with full access to both Allomancy and Feruchamy, so the term still fits even with the most literal interpretation. You can be born with the full complement of Metalborn powers.

Spoiler

At one point in HoA, Vin realizes something about the mists; that they are preservations body, gasues in the mist at night. Liquid in the well of asention, and solid in the lerasum she gave to Elond.

He is still a mistborn, just a lerasum mistborn.

[alder24]

22 hours ago, IcedOutPenguin said:

  Hide contents

At one point in HoA, Vin realizes something about the mists; that they are preservations body, gasues in the mist at night. Liquid in the well of asention, and solid in the lerasum she gave to Elond.

He is still a mistborn, just a lerasum mistborn.

If this quote is your reason for calling Elend a Mistborn, then this also applies to Rashek - he used the power of the Well of Ascension, the "liquid Mists" - Preservation's body - to become a Mistborn. The very same thing that made Elend a Mistborn, the same thing that made Demoux and others like him into Mistings, also made Rashek into a Mistborn and a fan named Fullborn. 

And to be fair, Rashek's body was literally vaporised when he Ascended and then remade from scratch by the powers, so he kind of was reborn as a Mistborn.

Spoiler

LewsTherinTelescope

In the Liar of Partinel samples, we see fain life is covered in skullmoss (and iirc seems to have it inside them, from a few mentions of eating fain-touched animals being deadly). If a fain being were to Ascend, would their body retain this skullmoss when they drop (I mean, Leras and Ati seemed to retain their clothes, so it wouldn't surprise me), or would it be killed off by the process?

(Actually, I'm curious about this with microorganisms and such in general with Vessels, but the fain life is what made me think of it.)

Brandon Sanderson

Imagine the body that drops after a Shard dies being the essence being recreated out of energy. It wasn't there all along--it was absorbed into the power, then drops back out as a kind of husk. But it's not literally the same atoms. There has been some strange E=MC2=Investiture shenanigans going on.

LewsTherinTelescope

Interesting. Is this similar to transitioning in and out of the Cognitive through a Perpendicularity?

And does this recreated thing include microorganisms (like the stomach bacteria or something), skullmoss, foot fungus, clothing, etc? Or just the minimum required to count as the body itself? (Leras and Ati tended to appear dressed, as well as Leras having his knife, but them choosing to appear in the Cognitive might not be the same thing as that body.)

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO it here. Good questions as always, though, LTT.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

[IcedOutPenguin He/Him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

If this quote is your reason for calling Elend a Mistborn, then this also applies to Rashek - he used the power of the Well of Ascension, the "liquid Mists" - Preservation's body - to become a Mistborn. The very same thing that made Elend a Mistborn, the same thing that made Demoux and others like him into Mistings, also made Rashek into a Mistborn and a fan named Fullborn. 

And to be fair, Rashek's body was literally vaporised when he Ascended and then remade from scratch by the powers, so he kind of was reborn as a Mistborn.

Yes, Rashek was a lerasuim mistborn, but he was also a full ferucemest, meaning he earned a title much higher than that of anyone alive, that of a Fullborn. 

Just calling him a lerasuim mistborn isn't enough to justify his level of power.

[Duxredux he/him]

On 3/5/2025 at 9:33 AM, IcedOutPenguin said:

I believe the term "fullborn" is used in Mistborn Era 2, making it canon. the same goes for "full feruchemist," but I'm not 100% on either of those 

Looks like I have to make an apology, correction, and retraction. Full Feruchemist is used in Era 2 in BoM when they are discussing Identity experimentation with VenDell in BoM. Looks like it's canon folks, and I agree on using it to reduce ambiguity. I assume the terminology for Ferring, Fetuchemist, and Full Feruchemist is as @robardin describes, but ironically not how "Metalborn" is used.

On the subject of ambiguity and changing tetminology, Metalborn is not only applied to Allomamcers and Feruchemists but also Kandra. In BoM, Wax invites VenDell on their expedition, stating they could use an extra Metalborn. So... I think Metalborn are someone with powers from any of the Metallic Arts including Hemalurgy. Which makes sense within the usage of Wax and Wayne beating up Set grunts and not bothering to differentiate if their powers were gained through birth or Hemalurgy. When the Coinshot/Leecher/Seeker/Duralumin Gnat is trying to kill Wax, it does and doesn't matter which of the powers were natural or granted. Also, considering those Duralumin abilities are anything but useless, we'll see if they keep the term "gnat" in later eras for one born with a seemingly useless power. 

That said, with the discussion of TLR and the Bands of Mourning, I do not find the term Fullborn. It used in two WoBs by fans who clarify the term so Brandon has heard it and once in the Coppermind in the "Final Empire" article, but I don't think I've seen Dragonsteel use the term. @Treamayne, could I ask you to do a quick ebook search for the term? If it is the term we can add it to the Coppermind or correct that article.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

That said, with the discussion of TLR and the Bands of Mourning, I do not find the term Fullborn.

I find no Fullborn in Mistborn Era 1 or 2. Era 1 uses "Full Mistborn" a number of times. Era 2 uses Full Feruchemist 4 6 times, notably: 
(I apparently accidentally counted search pings, not word instances - since some were in the same paragraph)

Spoiler

BoM Ch 3:

Quote

“You don’t even know how, or if, this would work,” Wax said, waving toward the screen. “And even if you could figure it out, you’d need a Full Feruchemist. Someone with at least two Feruchemical powers, as they’d need to be able to store their Identity in a metalmind along with another Feruchemical attribute. Rusts! To do what you proposed a moment ago, and create Allomancers too, you’d basically need someone who was already both Mistborn and Full Feruchemist.”

“This is true,” VenDell said.

The spot where the term could have been used, but was not.

We'll have to see how the terms morph in the time lapse into Era 3, since:

• Era 1 used Misting, Full Mistborn, and Feruchemist; but not Full Feruchemist
• Era 2 used Misting, Ferring, and Full Feruchemist
• Era 3 ?

Hope that helps

Edited March 11, 2025 by Treamayne
Incorrect Data

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

@Treamayne, could I ask you to do a quick ebook search for the term? If it is the term we can add it to the Coppermind or correct that article.

The term Fullborn was never used in books.

2 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Era 2 uses Full Feruchemist 4 times, notably: 

I found it 6 times in BoM.