Lerasium and the Burning of God Metals

[ChickenBonanza]

Or, why is Lerasium special and what classifies as a Shardic Connection? As a note, basically every sentence I write should be considered to begin with “I think that…” because this is all merely my thoughts, supported by textual evidence or not. Don’t take them as gospel.

Inspired by a Words of Brandon-filled reply by Treamayne. A dedication to sorting through Arcanum entries which I certainly do not have. Tires me and kills my drive to no end. Anyway, here are thoughts.

To preface, is Lerasium truly burnable by anyone? The notion that truly anyone can ingest and burn it like an Allomancer has many sources, such as this one. (There was a much better one I remember spotting, like, immediately before writing this, but alas it is gone. This is a bad one because old, paraphrased, rafo’d in such a way that he could be agreeing that anyone in the cosmere could use it by way of not correcting, but y’know. You get it.)

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Why can lerasium be burned by anyone in the cosmere, while atium is restricted to a small portion of the population of one planet?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

Here is another WoB which implies that even someone with no especial tie to Preservation could burn Lerasium. The average Surgebinder is not like to be a Scadrian. So perhaps it really is special. (In a way that annoys me significantly. However, it is paraphrased and old so who knows how accurate it is.)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Lerasium overwrites Spiritual DNA. It can do some interesting things, and can overwrite your Spiritual DNA in different ways if you do it right. If a Surgebinder ate lerasium, he would become an Allomancer, but Brandon implied other things could be done.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

However, one of the requirements for an Allomancer to burn a non-Lerasium/Atium Godmetal is some form of tie to that metal.

Quote

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

So, by way of Allomancers being able to burn atium, and someone like Elend able to burn Lerasium, the condition to of being ‘tied’ to the Investiture must be satisfied by such individuals.

For Atium, the ‘tie’ would be Ruin’s creation of Scadrial and Scadrians. And, even though Preservation put more of himself into the Scadrians, resulting in Allomancer genetics, Ruin must have done the same thing to a lesser degree. I ask, what is Feruchemy if not a mix of those Shard’s power? Genetically tied, an excess of Ruin’s power has to exist to such a degree to where it intermingles with Preservation’s excess to result in Feruchemists.

(A side note: that Preservation had to give more of himself to allow human sentience is an odd reasoning, to me. Not odd, perhaps, but necessitates more thought. Scadrians, by my reckoning, are not binaries of Ruin and Preservation, but of the mix of Investitures that reside in all humans, merely assembled by the Shards. Perhaps, in the creation of humans souls, Preservation just… gave more of himself than Ruin did. Whether to fulfill the ‘spark of life’ or other reasons. Iunno, really.)

Now, just as one has to be a Feruchemist to store traits in God Metals (how necessary is a tie there, I wonder?) one has to be an Allomancer to burn other God Metals. After all, a mundane human has no Spiritual mechanism to break down or draw out the power in an Invested metal, but Allomancers do. In fact, one could say a Misting, technically, possesses the ability to Allomantically burn all the metals in existence. They’ll just get metal-sick and probably die. 

This mechanism, this illness an Allomancer receives from a bad metal, fits well in explaining just why an Allomancer can burn God Metals, I think. With a bad metal, an Allomancer is attempting to bridge a gap into the Spiritual Realm and draw forth Preservation’s power… and failing. Resulting in both physical and spiritual malady. Too much metal is bad for the body, yo.

With a God Metal, however, there is no bridge to be made. The power already exists in the Physical Realm. There’s no sDNA-metal keyhole that has to be matched. A God Metal flows in the way it’s programmed too.

I remember, and must note, that the ‘Atium’ seen extensively in Era 1 is actually an Atium-Electrum alloy. The alloying of a God Metal with a mundane metal could perhaps (likely, to be, I think) restrict its usage to genuine/suitable Allomancers. From this detail, we could explain why the Atium we see only used by Allomancers. For if it wasn’t, why wouldn’t all the unpowered Scadrians and Mistings use it?

But Lerasium, I cry. Lerasium alloyed with other metals results in the creation of Mistings. Surely a user wouldn’t be an Allomancer beforehand. Yet Lerasium is usable by burning by anyone, Allomancer or not and (by WoB) without significant tie to Preservation.

However, as we see in Feruchemy’s genetic acquisition, Scadrian’s do possess a significant tie through genetics to Ruin. Why are Atium alloys restricted, but not Lerasium alloys?

An explanation I can see is that, as the God Metal of Preservation, who powers Allomancy, Lerasium can simply be naturally used by literally everyone in an Allomantic fashion. (Perhaps as a natural property, like Raysium’s Investiture conduction.) By this logic, we should see something similar in other God Metals. Atium is especially good when used Hemalurgically, Harmonium takes in Allomantic abilities in a manner that resembles Feruchemy. (Though Harmonium is technically a separate thing from an Atium-Lerasium alloy, but you can split it into them, so iunno.)

Quote

Questioner

If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined?

Brandon Sanderson

It's different after the Shards combined.

Questioner

If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you would-- It actually has become a different--

Questioner

Can't be split?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

So, in conclusion. By my logic, unalloyed and alloyed Atium cannot be burned Allomantically if one is not an Allomancer, and lacks a tie to Ruin. A Rosharan, for example, who has burned Lerasium (thanks to its theoretical special property) would not have the requisite tie that Scadrians do in their sDNA in order to burn Atium.

In fact, a potential change that would fit these rules, as I see them, is discussed here when talking about changes for a movie version of Final Empire. (Assuming he’s talking about unalloyed Atium, and not the Atium-Electrum we see in the books. In that case, God Metal access by Allomancers bypasses requirements for the Alloy. But I think he’s talking about unalloyed Atium here, so ignore this set of parenthesis.) Deleted a bunch of irrelevant parts from this monster of an entry.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off.

So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium.

General Reddit 2020 (June 22, 2020)

Anyway. Next part. What classifies as a tie to a Shard suitable enough to where they can access the power of their God Metals? Possessing some amount of Investiture specifically aligned with that Shard’s Intent seems enough. The small dormant bits of excess in Scadrians seems enough. So, from that example, any above-the-baseline amount of Investiture beyond the necessary elements of human existence would classify. Nalthian’s with Breath. Surgebinders. What have you. 

There is a part of me that somewhat doubts the whole ‘Scadrians must have a tiny bit of Ruin sDNA,’ and if they don’t, then perhaps merely being born or living on a planet where a Shard has Invested could count as a strong enough Connection to access God Metals (its barely one, but, whatever works.)

However, if it wasn’t the case, how did the original Feruchemists come into existence? Checkmate atheists. (And, by god, do not say they found Atium-Lerasium somewhere, you absolute buffoon.)

Spoiler

Also, I use ‘tie’ in place of Connection a lot in this post because I abhor the frequency in which its used without some form of clarification because, yeah, Allomancy does make one more strongly Connected to Preservation, but that’s by virtue of have a chunk of Preservation-power in a special spiritual organ inside your soul and is kind of a true for all Shards. And yeah, Allomancy does function by making some form of Connection to draw Preservation’s power from the Spiritual Realm but that’s its own, short-lived thing.

The above tirade is only tangentially related to the post. Kindly disregard it.

Edited February 27, 2025 by ChickenBonanza
guys basically like 99% of this is headcanon alright, it’s all thoughts from my brainspace

[Treamayne]

On 2/26/2025 at 1:35 AM, ChickenBonanza said:

I ask, what is Feruchemy if not a mix of those Shard’s power?

Feruchemy, as an MoI, came to be thorugh the same mechanism that most MoIs exist. They are not created by the Shards directly (though they can be tweaked) - rather the Realmatics of the Cosmere mean that when you have a Shard Invested in a world (and that means a little something extra for Scadrial because of how it as Created) - the planet, the people, and the Shard's Intent will naturally resolve into one or more Manifestations of Investiture.

Spoiler

asmodeus

You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets.

I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it.

Footnote: It was a really fun one.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

For example, Endowment did not "create" Awakening (especially the way she does create Returned) - rather Awakening was the natural result of the Endowment Intent interacting with Nalthis and people that are born with BioChromatic Breath. Likewise, Feruchemy is the Natural Result of two Shards having Created a world and it's people; such that the Intent of Preservation is expressed in how Feruchemy "saves" your own traits to use later, and the Intent of Ruin (entropy) is expressed in how small amounts of that Investiture are lost in the storing, tapping, and compression of a Trait.

How that became linked to the Terris sDNA is still unknown - but the predominant theory here is that:

• We know at the time of the Final Empire, it has been millenia since the Shattering
• We know that Preservation's Well refilled every 1024 years.
• We know the Terris Prophesies were created by Preservation as part of the Gambit to break his deal with Ruin allowing the destruction of Scadrial
  • And that this happened long before Alendi and Rashek
• We know that before Rashek accessed the Well, Scadrial had Gunpoweder and other tech that TLR purposefully suppressed
• Therefore, we expect that Alendi's Well was not the First Time that the Well had filled and a "Hero" chosen to use the Well to prevent Ruin's escape.
  • Many believe it was the Hero 1024 years before Rashek that used the Well to tie Feruchemy to the Terris sDNA in the North - because it is obviously not tied to Terris sDNA in the South (where they also only have Ferrings, not full Feruchemists).

On 2/26/2025 at 1:35 AM, ChickenBonanza said:

A dedication to sorting through Arcanum entries which I certainly do not have.

The Sharder FAQ has tips on how to more effectively search the Arcanum. It helps to have been around long enough to have seen many WoBs - so if you remember having read one, it comes down to remembering how to find it again. . .

Edited March 11, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[ChickenBonanza]

6 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Therefore, we expect that Alendi's Well was not the First Time that the Well had filled and a "Hero" chosen to use the Well to prevent Ruin's escape.

• Many believe it was the Hero 1024 years before Rashek that used the Well to tie Feruchemy to the Terris sDNA in the North - because it is obviously not tied to Terris sDNA in the South (where they also only have Ferrings, not full Feruchemists).

 

This is acceptable to me. Especially since the Well is only of Preservation and thus would have to draw out power that would already exist in Scadrians, by my understanding. Creating a people with an ability to remember events and store prophecy well, bravo.

6 hours ago, Treamayne said:

For example, Endowment did not "create" Awakening (especially the way she does create Returned) - rather Awakening was the natural result of the Endowment Intent interacting with Nalthis and people that are born with BioChromatic Breath.

We are aware of how Invested Arts come to be, but some part of me doubts how well Awakening on Nalthis classifies. Awakening is simply a principle of the Cosmere that one can do with any Investiture, theoretically. However, Nalthis’ Breaths and relation to color (like how Nalthian Awakening drains color for reasons like extra Investiture) do seem to relate to Nalthis spiritually. The reason for its prevalence on Nalthis would be because of the abundance of raw Investiture in the form of Breaths, and how easy it is to utilize Breaths thanks to Endowment’s Intent.

However, Nalthian Awakening could be a similar situation as to Hemalurgy. A Shard utilizing common principles of the Cosmere and influencing the Manifestation of Investiture to align with those principles, but easier or subtly different. Like Bindpoints being a universal thing, and Hemalurgy is just a way to take advantage of Bindpoints in an incredibly simple manner, by having Ruin power the operation when one uses metal.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, ChickenBonanza said:

but some part of me doubts how well Awakening on Nalthis classifies. Awakening is simply a principle of the Cosmere that one can do with any Investiture, theoretically. However, Nalthis’ Breaths and relation to color (like how Nalthian Awakening drains color for reasons like extra Investiture) do seem to relate to Nalthis spiritually.

Remember not to confuse "Awakening" with "Being Awakened":

• Awakening is the process of endowing BioChromatic Breath in an object to allow it to move in simulation of Life and fulfill basic Commands given at time of Awakening
  • Vasher Awakened a staw man in the Jail with the Command "Find Keys"
  • Zahel Awakened the laundry to wrap up Kaladin's hands when they sparred at Urithiru
• Something that "is Awakened" means it has been imbued with investiture of some form from an Invested Art to the point that it can function as an Artifical Intelligence with some level of Sentience (up to, but ot exclusive of Sapience)
  • Father Machine was Awakened to to Sentience by Hion so that it could harvest Spirits to create more Hion
  • The Ghostbloods Safe was Awakened (method unknown) so that it could recognize if a person legitimately had the combination for access or was trying to circumvent those protocols
  • Fort's Tablet was Awakened (method unknown) so that it sould read his Intent and help him communicate. 

Lifeless are likely the second category through the method of the first category. 

[ChickenBonanza]

43 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Remember not to confuse "Awakening" with "Being Awakened":

• Awakening is the process of endowing BioChromatic Breath in an object to allow it to move in simulation of Life and fulfill basic Commands given at time of Awakening

Personally, the idea that ‘Awakening’ refers specifically to Breaths and is a Nalthis-sourced phenomenon is not one I agree with. It’s why I use ‘Nalthian Awakening,’ and refers to using Breaths and is named for its planet of origin and such.

Is the process of making an object ‘Awakened’ not ‘Awakening?’

After all, other Investitures can be used to Awaken objects, like with the Father Machine. There are arcanum entries which note that Stormlight requires work to be used for Awakening, and there are others which call such a thing ‘mixing magics,’ but I would call the veracity of such entries into question, as non-Breath-derived methods seem to work just fine. I would justify that notion towards Honor’s Intent, and especially Stormlight’s nature as a fleeting, powerful storm, not fit to sit tight and imbue an object well. (I wonder if Light sourced from a Highstorm significantly effects Honor’s Light, and if Light from a different potential source would feel differently, or if all of Honor’s Light was ‘corrupted’ by the nature of the Highstorms?)

I also have thoughts on how we should use the terms of Invested Art. For example, if Awakening was simply an operation in which one’s takes advantage of Investiture natural properties to act to Intent and head Commands, I would not deem it an Invested Art. Another term, like Arcana, suits such a function better, though Invested Art and Arcana are used interchangeably, currently, so perhaps something different. However, if it was sourced from a Shard’s Investing of a planet, like if Endowment brought Awakening into existence by Investing Nalthis, then I would call it an Invested Art. Thought that option is one that irks me to quite a degree.

Edited February 26, 2025 by ChickenBonanza

[Treamayne]

32 minutes ago, ChickenBonanza said:

Personally, the idea that ‘Awakening’ refers specifically to Breaths and is a Nalthis-sourced phenomenon is not one I agree with. It’s why I use ‘Nalthian Awakening,’ and refers to using Breaths and is named for its planet of origin and such.

Feel free to provide examples.

Father Machine was Awakened, but did not use Awakening. I can think of no examples where an object gained independent movement that was not derived from BioChromatic Breath. There are many ways form something to be Awakened to Sentience or Sapience. 

(your term) "Nalthian" Awakening is the only art we have seen that confers independant movement in fulfilling a Command. Sand mastery allows movement under control of a Luhel Bond. Aetherspores allow Luhel Bond influenced growth (and Control for Midnight Spores). 

32 minutes ago, ChickenBonanza said:

There are arcanum entries which note that Stormlight requires work to be used for Awakening,

Right, this is "can I use Stormlight as fuel instead of Breaths for the Same MoI" - and that answer was "Yes, Asterisk" - because the answer was that you would have to convert the Stormlight into Breaths - but the MoI was still "Nalthian" Awakening. 

• Awakening is a Magic Art (MoI) normally fueled by breath (but like all MoIs, there are ways to fuel it with other sources of investiture - ref: TLM and unkeyed Dor fueling Allomancy)
• Being Awakened is a state of AI confered by Investiture and achievable by most MoIs in the Cosmere

Feel free to disagree - your opinion is your own, But you will need to provide examples if you want others to agree. That was why I specifically called out Father machine, Fort's Board, the Awakened Safe, (also, the Awakened Metalminds in TSM) etc.  as examples of the second term

32 minutes ago, ChickenBonanza said:

However, if it was sourced from a Shard’s Investing of a planet, like if Endowment brought Awakening into existence by Investing Nalthis, then I would call it an Invested Art.

She did. She created Nalthis (or found an empty planet and created Nalthians) specifically to have BioChromatic Breath and function on the Intent of Endowing Breath to grant (short-term) life to objects. WoB

Spoiler

Questioner

In the last panel we talked a lot about people from different planets using magic systems on other planets, one of the things I've been thinking about, we've been thinking about, talking about Breath, and people being born with Breath, is that something specific to Nalthis or do, technically, other people on other planets have a Breath as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question and that is a Nalthian thing. Now, everyone in the cosmere to an extent has Investiture, the Nalthian Breath is part what everyone has and then a little extra, plus the ability to share it around. So a person who gives up their Breath on Nalthis is actually going below what a normal person has. But a normal person on Nalthis has more than somebody-- So if you were for instance to pick a world like Sixth of the Dusk, where there's not a Shard in residence, and you compared them to a Nalthian, Nalthian has an Investiture advantage over them. When they've given up their Breath, they have an Investiture disadvantage.

Bystander

So we're not Drabs?

Brandon Sanderson

So we're not Drabs. That's exactly it. We're not Drabs.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

Nalthians were created to have Innate investiture above Cosmere Standard (making Drabs below Cosmere Standard)

Edited February 26, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG/WoB

[ChickenBonanza]

Quote

Argent

There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

Cut for size.

This was the entry, I think, which gave me knowledge of the term ‘Nalthian Awakening’ as a differentiator from other types of Awakening. As an expression of an overarching system, ‘Nalthian Awakening’ could therefore not necessarily be a ‘Manifestation of Investiture’ in that it might not have required Endowment to Invest in Nalthis to be created, unlike how the Surgebinder Order of Lightweavers use an overarching system of Lightweaving, but are the result of Honor and Cultivation Investing Roshar.

33 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

"Nalthian" Awakening is the only art we have seen that confers independant movement in fulfilling a Command. Sand mastery allows movement under control of a Luhel Bond. Aetherspores allow Luhel Bond influenced growth (and Control for Midnight Spores). 

But doesn’t the Father Machine do its own thing? I am unsure what you mean by independent movement, apologies.

33 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Right, this is "can I use Stormlight as fuel instead of Breaths for the Same MoI" - and that answer was "Yes, Asterisk" - because the answer was that you would have to convert the Stormlight into Breaths - but the MoI was still "Nalthian" Awakening.

This somewhat aligned with my thoughts on those, as well. Perhaps their answers were from a state in which Awakening wasn’t an overarching principle.

However, I do want to point out this:

Quote

Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

These emphases, my own, provide something of a muddied image, to me. Implying both that Awakening is a system from Nalthis, but that you can use any Investiture you wish, theoretically, and it draws upon all Investiture.

However, the notion that the ‘easiest’ way to use Stormlight to Awaken would be overwrite Intent and make it into a Breath, implies that there are other methods to use Stormlight as-is. In that case, how does Awakening, if it is a Manifestation of Investiture on Nalthis, where only Endowment is Invested, work with Honor’s Investiture, in any form? The mechanical means mentioned could be something like unkeyed Investiture, but that is, to me—and forgive my language—a lame answer.

Edited February 26, 2025 by ChickenBonanza

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, ChickenBonanza said:

I am unsure what you mean by independent movement, apologies.

Example: 

Spoiler

Warbreaker Ch 14:

Quote

She was completely shocked when a man beside her suddenly lifted off the ground.

The man rose into the air, lifted by his unusually long cloak. The cloth had stiffened, looking a little like a hand as it held the man up high so he could see over the crowd. 

Ch 45:

Quote

She might be able to sneak by them.

She waited until one patrol had passed, then Awakened one of the tapestries. “Lift me,” she said, dropping a drained handkerchief. The tapestry twisted into the air, wrapping around her, the top end still attached to the wall. Like a muscular arm, it lifted her up, twisting and depositing her atop the wall. She glanced around, recovering her breath. 

 

The cloth is not Sentient or Sapient - it has merely been Awakened with Breath and a Command for a function, and has movement to fulfill that Command.

Fort's Board may have been Awakened as an AI with a yet-unknown MoI, but Breath was used by Xisis to Awaken the Tapestry to hold Captain Crow. 

[ChickenBonanza]

8 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Fort's Board may have been Awakened as an AI with a yet-unknown MoI, but Breath was used by Xisis to Awaken the Tapestry to hold Captain Crow.

We do know, actually Fort’s Board’s origin. At least the original one. While it doesn’t say specifically that ‘hey it was Awakened with Breaths,’ it is from Nalthis, and why would they use anything else?

Quote

That “wizard” from the stars wasn’t me, by the way. I’ve always wondered who traded the device to Fort. That’s Nalthian tech, with Awakened predictive Connection circuits.

(Tress of the Emerald Sea, Chapter 15.)

I would say it isn’t a genuine AI, just an algorithm, y’know? A good one, since it reads Intent and whatever.

12 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

The cloth is not Sentient or Sapient - it has merely been Awakened with Breath and a Command for a function, and has movement to fulfill that Command.

I would counter this by saying that Nightblood was Awakened with Breath, but does not move on their own, (most of the time).Intent and Command visualization would determine movement for many things. Like, if I were to Command a cloth to ‘be durable,’ it wouldn’t begin to move independently, necessarily, but the Breath would reinforce its hardness or whatever other term to describe physical traits.

And, the AI-like sentience and sapience we see in certain Awakened objects derives not necessarily from the origin of the Investiture used to Awaken it, but either from the Intent to create something ‘living,’ like a Lifeless, or the amount of Investiture used to Awaken it.

One of Investiture’s properties is that, in concentration, it doesn’t remain mindless. It wants direction, and eventually learns to think for itself. Such a phenomenon I would say took place in Nightblood and the Father Machine, as I am sure their creators did not include the Intent to create something alive; Nightblood was meant to be a recreation of dead Shardblades. Azure’s blade could also be something akin to this, but I would call it reasonable to say that she specifically prepared for sentience when Awakening her sword.

[Treamayne]

11 minutes ago, ChickenBonanza said:

it is from Nalthis, and why would they use anything else?

Thank you - forgot that part (only read twice, and it's been a while). 

11 minutes ago, ChickenBonanza said:

I would counter this by saying that Nightblood was Awakened with Breath, but does not move on their own,

I feel like one or both of us are failing to understand each other and keep talking passed each other. Please allow me to try to restate and explain slightly differently, to clarify (and feel free to do the same)

• When something is granted sentience or sapience by Investiture - it is Awakened. Almost all MoIs can accomplish this in some fashion
  • In shown examples, there are all permanent Investitures (Lifeless, Father Machine, Nightblood, etc.)
• Granting movement to fulfill a command in the short term (and any spatial awareness, etc. necessary to achieve that Command) is what Awakening, as a Manifestation of Investiture based upon the Intent of Endowment can achieve that other MoIs cannot achieve. 
  • Breath can Awaken a Teft Statue into a Lifeless - no version of Stormlight would also turn that Soulcast Teft Corpse into a Lifeless (even if invested to the point of Sapience, it won't move)

WoB:

Spoiler

EMTrevor

Would an Awakener be able to awaken a corpse that was soulcast into stone more easily because it used to be living, thereby being able to create lifeless similar to Kalad's Phantoms without having bones in the framework?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. That would definitely work.

Tor.com The Way of Kings Re-Read Interview (June 10, 2014)

Does that clarify anything?

Edited February 26, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[ChickenBonanza]

20 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I feel like one or both of us are failing to understand each other and keep talking passed each other. Please allow me to try to restate and explain slightly differently, to clarify (and feel free to do the same)

Indeed. That do be true. Fundamental differences in definitions. For example,

20 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

When something is granted sentience or sapience by Investiture - it is Awakened. Almost all MoIs can accomplish this in some fashion

• In shown examples, there are all permanent Investitures (Lifeless, Father Machine, Nightblood, etc.)

 

I would say that for an object to be Awakened, sentience is not a requirement. I would define it as to be infused with Commanded Investiture to produce an effect or cause it to do something.

20 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Granting movement to fulfill a command in the short term (and any spatial awareness, etc. necessary to achieve that Command) is what Awakening, as a Manifestation of Investiture based upon the Intent of Endowment can achieve that other MoIs cannot achieve. 

• Breath can Awaken a Teft Statue into a Lifeless - no version of Stormlight would also turn that Soulcast Teft Corpse into a Lifeless (even if invested to the point of Sapience, it won't move)

 

This, I agree mostly with. Except for Awakening as a Manifestation of Investiture, that’s still tenuous in my mind, but has a good argument for being true despite that. Breath’s relation and to life and color, and the ability for Nalthian Awakened objects to ‘see’ and move as if alive’ could be derived from Endowment and Nalthis interacting. However, I am unsure if that is something that exists as a hard rule, or just something that Nalthian Awakening is especially good at doing.

One of the reasons I think this way is because I think that Nalthian Awakening being a Manifeststion of Investitute is just… lame. Like, way to give Nalthis the one Invested Art that literally everyone else has their own way of doing. Like, if Endowment had not Invested Nalthis and given someone a Breath, they could still easily give it away and use it in the manner of Awakening. However, in that circumstance, the Awakened object would behave differently, most like. Like not being able to ‘see’ and act as if alive.

All that being said, your thoughts are more likely to be correct then mine, I think.

Edited February 26, 2025 by ChickenBonanza

[alder24]

As for Lerasium, Lerasium making you into an Allomancer is a side effect of this metal. Actually, it's your body that burns it. If you want to access its main power, you absolutely need to be an Allomancer first and you need to have a proper intent (know what it does). 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Eight

Preservation's Power

All right, so maybe I lied about there only being three magic systems in this book. It comes down to how you term the powers of Preservation and Ruin, who kind of blanket the entire system. There are a lot of things going on here, and—well, the truth is I don't want to mention all of them, for fear of spoiling future books. However, I'll give you a few rules to apply.

First, to these forces, energy and mass are the same thing. So, their power can take physical shape—as Preservation's did in the bead of metal Elend ate. Second, there is a bit of Preservation inside of all the people—and it's this that allows the people to perform Allomancy. It needs to be awakened and stirred to be of use, but when it is, a proper metal can draw forth more of Preservation's power. It's like the metal attunes the bit within the person, allowing it to act as a catalyst to grab more power.

Allomancy is not fueled by metal; it is fueled by Preservation. The metal is the means by which a person can access that fuel, however. If there were another way to access it, then the metal wouldn't be needed.

Preservation's touch on people differs. Some have more, some have less. This doesn't make them better or worse people—indeed, some most touched by Preservation have been among the worst people in the world. As Ruin later points out, there is a difference between being evil and being destructive.

Regardless, if a person can get more Preservation into them, they become better Allomancers. Hence Elend becoming a Mistborn. Like all people, he had the potential within him—it was just too small of a potential to be awakened through normal means. That little jolt of Preservation's body, however, expanded and awakened his Allomancy.

As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn't the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 12, 2009)

 

Spoiler

17th Shard

If a Mistborn burns lerasium, as in, not just ingests it, what effect would it grant Allomantically?

Brandon Sanderson

That is a RAFO. It would do something, but the thing you've gotta remember is that, when ingesting lerasium for the first time and gaining the powers, your body is actually burning it. Think of lerasium as a metal anyone can burn. Does that make sense? By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know. Were most Mistborn to just burn it, it would rewrite their genetic code to increase their power as an Allomancer.

17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010)