Reason, free from Passion.

[AlmightyGir]

The thread title is a quote commonly attributed to the greek philosopher Aristotle's definition of the Law.

If we were to contextualize this quote within the Cosmere, then Honor certainly seem(ed) to be just that. Honor, the power, didn't like how Tanavast would justify bending or breaking oaths made, just because they didn't feel right. Honor only cared that the oath was upheld.

Similarly, Big T having taken up both Odium (Passion) and Honor, now calls himself Retribution. Another word for Vengeance, and almost the antithesis of Law, at least in this context. While Big T can certainly appease both powers for a time, by giving in to Honor's desire to punish oathbreakers, and Odiums desire to, well... Dominate everything. I don't think the two powers can coexist meaningfully in the long term of the Cosmere.

But, it does raise an interesting question to me... If Law is Reason, free from Passion, does that mean the shard of Reason itself is, in a way, an actual working combination of the concepts of Honor and Odium?

[Argenti he/him]

32 minutes ago, AlmightyGir said:

The thread title is a quote commonly attributed to the greek philosopher Aristotle's definition of the Law.

If we were to contextualize this quote within the Cosmere, then Honor certainly seem(ed) to be just that. Honor, the power, didn't like how Tanavast would justify bending or breaking oaths made, just because they didn't feel right. Honor only cared that the oath was upheld.

Similarly, Big T having taken up both Odium (Passion) and Honor, now calls himself Retribution. Another word for Vengeance, and almost the antithesis of Law, at least in this context. While Big T can certainly appease both powers for a time, by giving in to Honor's desire to punish oathbreakers, and Odiums desire to, well... Dominate everything. I don't think the two powers can coexist meaningfully in the long term of the Cosmere.

But, it does raise an interesting question to me... If Law is Reason, free from Passion, does that mean the shard of Reason itself is, in a way, an actual working combination of the concepts of Honor and Odium?

Eh, Not really. Aristotle is kinda wrong for that anyway, there are plenty of illogical laws. I expect Reason to be kinda Machiavellian; who cares about oaths or emotions? Only results matter. 

[AlmightyGir]

On 2/19/2025 at 4:16 AM, Argenti said:

Eh, Not really. Aristotle is kinda wrong for that anyway, there are plenty of illogical laws. I expect Reason to be kinda Machiavellian; who cares about oaths or emotions? Only results matter. 

That sounds much more like Autonomy or Invention to me...

[Entr0pic He/him]

I feel as if the reason shards intent would be to do the most objectively reasonable/logical thing. I can imagine that breaking oaths would, at some points, be the most reasonable thing.

[Ashbringer he/him]

I think "getting as far away from these storming people as possible" is also an objectively reasonable thing, seeing as what all the other Shards are like.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

On 2/18/2025 at 11:16 PM, Argenti said:

Eh, Not really. Aristotle is kinda wrong for that anyway, there are plenty of illogical laws. I expect Reason to be kinda Machiavellian; who cares about oaths or emotions? Only results matter. 

Yeah, I've long assumed that Reason would be like Vulcan logic, but actually divorced from emotion (as Vulcan's definitely have their own issues). I would think that Reason's Intent would lead to a vessel who makes decisions robotically, without any regard to factors not deemed reasonable, or logical. I'm not in a hurry to meet Reason.