Theory: why conquering the Shettered Plains was paramount for Odium

[Dreumz]

 !!!! This theory is a spoiler of the Wind and Truth final book ! Just in case I posted this in the wrong section ... !!!!

I apologize if the topic was already brought up, please let me know !

So here is a theory about why Odium went into so much trouble to conquer the Shattered Plains.

This place has a historically huge importance, being the remains of the city of Stormseat, now called Narak. I was also where the chasmfiends went to pupate for their last life cycle step, making the gemhearts there of incredible value for soulcasting. It also hosts an Oathgate, has a huge importance for the Listeners for the rythmes there, etc (I am sure I am forgetting a lot of more important stuff, I am sorry) ...

BUT, beside that, it has almost no infrastructure, economy, agriculture, you name it. So why did Odium send so many troops and Unmade to take it ?

My theory relies in the "loophole" in the contract established for the duel of champions at the end of the 10 days: that possessing the "seat of power" of a nation, aka its capital in most cases as it turns out, by the end of the timeline means possessing its entire kingdom. So, conquering the Shattered Plains, the new capital of the Alethi, would mean a crushing blow to them, having already lost Kholinar.

BUT, during the battle, Venli followed the voice of the Stone toward an enigmatic source of power which turned out to be ... Odium's very own Pool of Power !

Therefore, should the humans of the coalition have the Shattered Plains under their control by the 10th day, with the pool underneath it, they would actually have in their possession Odium's "seat of power" so to speak, and thus take ownership of everything he conquered so far !

In the end the Shattered Plains were given back to the Listeners with Venli by Jasnah, thus escaping control by Odium, so it might not have the same importance ...

What do you think ?

[RedBlue]

IMO it’s heavily implied in the book that Odium’s special interest in the Shattered Plains was because he knew his Perpendicularity was there and he wanted full control of it.

I don’t think this was for the purposes of the contract, though. The loophole Taravangian exploited was based on Alethi legal codes, which would not recognise a Perpendicularity as a legal entity, let alone a capital.

More likely Taravangian is concerned about the potential usefulness of the Perpendicularity for after the Contest, when he’s actually running his empire. It is not only a passageway in and out of Shadesmar, but it also appears to collect Investiture in liquid form, which might be powerful in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

[Nitpicking]

4 hours ago, RedBlue said:

More likely Taravangian is concerned about the potential usefulness of the Perpendicularity for after the Contest, when he’s actually running his empire. It is not only a passageway in and out of Shadesmar, but it also appears to collect Investiture in liquid form, which might be powerful in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.

We know that

COSMERE SPOILER

Spoiler

Bathing in the Well of Ascension turned Kelsier into a stable Cognitive Shadow, instead of a rapidly-fading dead person's spirit.

 

[elias888]

I think this theory makes sense. Odium’s focus on the Shattered Plains is likely about the Perpendicularity underneath, not the land itself. It’s a powerful source of Investiture, and controlling it would give him an edge, not just for the Contest, but for what comes after. It makes his push for the Plains feel more strategic.

[Master Silver]

I agree that I think it was because his perpendicularity was there. But also, he had no way of knowing what would happen at the contest of champions. If he lost or even if he won, but his well of power was discovered, would he be able to move it? If not, Navani and her scientists could work to unkey that investiture, or simply siphon it off and destroy it with anti-void light, meaning over time Odium would weaken or he would lose x amount of power if he is able to stop it from pooling there.

A follow up question is whether or not that pool of power now collects war light, or if Odium moved it and how does this affect the chasm feids? Will they become more intelligent? Will their personalities change? I imagine they will change somewhat since the pool of power changed. 

[RedBlue]

3 hours ago, Master Silver said:

A follow up question is whether or not that pool of power now collects war light, or if Odium moved it and how does this affect the chasm feids? Will they become more intelligent? Will their personalities change? I imagine they will change somewhat since the pool of power changed. 

From chapter 146 (Venli POV):

Quote

Venli ran past him to the building where, using Retribution’s gifted Light, she’d secretly made a passage downward, and had found the underground pool to be empty.

Now, with her mother and Bila, she reached the pool and found the strange too-thick liquid returning. Welling up from the ground. The color was different, a brilliant black-blue. A new tone accompanied it, pulsing to a new rhythm. The … Rhythm of War? She knew its name instinctively.

“What does it mean?” Thude asked her, looking up from where he knelt by the gathering pool of blue-black liquid light.

“It means,” she said softly, “that we have a very powerful duty, Thude. Our little land is going to be important to the coming world.”

Looks like the pool is filling with Retribution’s power, but in liquid form rather than light. It hasn’t moved, Venli and her group have access to it, and are aware that it is a big deal.

I don’t think this is going to affect the Chasmfiends. At least, not directly. They only needed to consume the ambient Investiture in order to pupate. It shouldn’t matter if that Investiture was originally keyed to Odium or Retribution, as it gets ‘eaten’ either way.

[Master Silver]

With that amount of power, and being stone shapers, they could essentially build a grand city very quickly, certainly within 10 years. 

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

if Odium moved it and how does this affect the chasm feids?

2 hours ago, RedBlue said:

I don’t think this is going to affect the Chasmfiends. At least, not directly.

But we're the Chasmfiends attracted to the pool or the remnents of the 4th moon with its mysterious metal?

The Chasmfiends don't appear very odius to me..

It could also be why that location is important, for the pool and other reasons. Maybe the metal helps hide the pool or vice versa or both..?

It does beg the questions of what's up with this metal with interesting implications and who "owns" it

Spoiler

Something to do with Valor is my guess.

 

[alder24]

On 1/29/2025 at 7:52 PM, Dreumz said:

BUT, during the battle, Venli followed the voice of the Stone toward an enigmatic source of power which turned out to be ... Odium's very own Pool of Power !

Therefore, should the humans of the coalition have the Shattered Plains under their control by the 10th day, with the pool underneath it, they would actually have in their possession Odium's "seat of power" so to speak, and thus take ownership of everything he conquered so far !

It's not his seat of power, it's his Shardpool. Just like Mishram and Ishar did, someone can take up the power of his own perpendicularity and potentially rival his claim to Odium. The power of Odium liked Mishram so much that it considered her as a better Vessel than Rayse and it wanted her as her Vessel, which made Rayse impotent and almost resulted in him losing the Shard. Taravangian wanted to make sure this would never happen to him. it's not about ownership (as the pool itself grants no ownership over anything, it's not Odium's capital or anything like this, it's just a place where his investiture leaks into the Physical Realm), it's about power and Connection to Odium this Shardpool can grant. 

[AlmightyGir]

On 1/31/2025 at 12:34 PM, alder24 said:

It's not his seat of power, it's his Shardpool. Just like Mishram and Ishar did, someone can take up the power of his own perpendicularity and potentially rival his claim to Odium. The power of Odium liked Mishram so much that it considered her as a better Vessel than Rayse and it wanted her as her Vessel, which made Rayse impotent and almost resulted in him losing the Shard. Taravangian wanted to make sure this would never happen to him. it's not about ownership (as the pool itself grants no ownership over anything, it's not Odium's capital or anything like this, it's just a place where his investiture leaks into the Physical Realm), it's about power and Connection to Odium this Shardpool can grant. 

 

Spoiler

Is that really how that works? When Rashek took up the power of Preservation, he became a Sliver, he didn't claim the Shard. And at that point in time, Leras was functionally dead, the Shard was keeping him together but by his own admission, he was unravelling quickly.

With the Shardbearer in such a state, other than Preservation (the power) simply saying "I must preserve him", surely Rashek could have taken up the power wholesale?

I cannot believe that stealing a Shard in its entirety could be as simple as just entering its pool and drinking all the juice.

Edited February 1, 2025 by AlmightyGir

[alder24]

12 hours ago, AlmightyGir said:

Mistborn spoilers

Spoiler

Is that really how that works? When Rashek took up the power of Preservation, he became a Sliver, he didn't claim the Shard. And at that point in time, Leras was functionally dead, the Shard was keeping him together but by his own admission, he was unravelling quickly.

With the Shardbearer in such a state, other than Preservation (the power) simply saying "I must preserve him", surely Rashek could have taken up the power wholesale?

I cannot believe that stealing a Shard in its entirety could be as simple as just entering its pool and drinking all the juice.

This is a Stormlight only forum, spoilers from other books are not allowed here. Please edit your post and hide them in a spoiler box.

It's not that easy. There were multiple factors that contributed to this situation, the biggest was the conflict between Rayse the Vessel and Odium the power. They were in conflict, Rayse had troubles controlling the power and partially Ascending gave Mishram a strong Connection to Odium. The power liked Mishram and thought of her as a better fit Vessel and that's why Mishram rivaled Rayse. Because of this Rayse fully lost control over his Shard and was able to only prevent it from rejecting him, nothing more. The power chose Mishram and that's why Mishram was a rival to him. Mishram is still a threat to Taravangian, the power still likes her.

Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

As for Rashek, the power chose Alendi for Ascension and to become the new Vessel of Preservation. Alendi was chosen by the power and thus he was a better fit for Preservation than Rashek could have ever been. Moreover, Leras and Preservation were not in conflict with each other, they were fully aligned and together they chose and prepared the next Vessel. The power wanted Alendi, not Rashek as the new Vessel, Rashek couldn't have stolen Preservation just by using the Well.

There was also something different about Rayse's pool which allowed Mishram to rival Rayse. We don't know if the other Shardpool had the same properties, or if those two were different from each other as well. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventy-Nine

The Mists Chose Someone

There's a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the author of these epigraphs knows. Reasons why Vin was chosen, and why the power of Preservation needed a new mind to control it.

The author is right in that Preservation did need someone to control its power, and it did seek for a host in which to invest itself. It began this search with what mind it had left about sixteen years before the return of the power to the Well of Ascension, just as it began a search for a new host before the return of the power the previous time.

Unfortunately, just as Ruin took control and manipulated Alendi, he took control and manipulated Vin.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (May 13, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

In the most recent Hero of Ages annotation, you said that Preservation chose Vin to be the recipient of the power, just as Preservation had chosen Alendi previously (thus, this was why Ruin had manipulated the Prophecies). Was Alendi also chosen precisely sixteen years before the Well of Ascension's power returned?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. He was chosen exactly sixteen years before, but he was a bit older then Vin when he was chosen.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

 

WaT ch 122:

Quote

SOMETHING WAS DIFFERENT ABOUT HIM. YES … HE WAS EVEN MORE DISCONNECTED FROM HIS POWER NOW. IT HOVERED FAR BEHIND HIM, THE SHARD OF ODIUM, DRAWN TOWARD BRAIZE. FORCED ISOLATION IN THIS SYSTEM, THE INABILITY TO FULFILL THE POWER’S DESIRE, WAS WEARING ON HIM.
[...]
YET HE HAD A WEAKNESS. RAYSE AND THE POWER WANTED DIFFERENT THINGS. IT WANTED ONLY TO ESCAPE, WHILE HE YEARNED TO REMAIN ITS VESSEL. AND SO I WAITED, WATCHING FOR WHAT I’D SEEN IN THE PERMUTATIONS. I KEPT HIS ATTENTION FOR A FEW YEARS—BUT AN EYEBLINK TO US. MEANWHILE, I SAW WHAT HIS RIVAL HAD DONE. DURING MY MEDITATIONS, RAYSE HAD BRIEFLY LOST CONTROL OF HIS POWER, REQUIRING HIS FULL ATTENTION TO MAINTAIN IT. IN THOSE YEARS, HIS RIVAL HAD ALREADY FOUND HIS POOL—A PART OF HIS SOUL—AND PARTAKEN OF IT. THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EASY, BUT SOMETHING ABOUT HIS POOL—THE WAY HE WAS MAINTAINING IT—WAS DIFFERENT …

WaT ch 145:

Quote

Any echoes of Tanavast, his only true rival, were gone.
No. There could be others. Ba-Ado-Mishram was free again. He would have to channel and control her, lest she supplant him.