WAT implication for WIT

[Zahellion]

Now that Hoid no longer holds a dawnshard, do we know if he can. harm other people?

Edited January 22, 2025 by Zahellion
Incorrect title

[LeondeBowa]

I would assume he has the same problem nomad had.

The dawnshards has altered his being fundamentally and so he cannot hurt people.

[AquaRegia he/him]

Without spoilering too much (despite this being the Cosmere Spoiler forum LOL), everything we have seen indicates that even after giving up a Dawnshard, one retains this "feature", what Nomad refers to as his Torment.

[CMac716]

It's described as something like scar tissue on the soul. So the Dawnshards quilte literally burn it into your soul that you're not allowed to go against it. 

[Sparks]

So if Wit's discovered what Zellion has discovered about altering his Identity... then yes, he can.

[CMac716]

3 minutes ago, Sparks said:

So if Wit's discovered what Zellion has discovered about altering his Identity... then yes, he can.

Zellion isn't free of his Torment. He found a prescription drug to deal with the symptoms. He has to keep using the cinderheart to siphon of the scarred portion of his spiritweb in order to overcome it. 

 

Wit could do something similar if he can find the right tools, but being able to harm people again doesn't really seem important to him. He works from the shadows because the ones he's working against aren't ones you can take in a fight.

[Treamayne]

On 1/26/2025 at 9:39 PM, Sparks said:

So if Wit's discovered what Zellion has discovered about altering his Identity... then yes, he can.

On 1/26/2025 at 9:47 PM, CMac716 said:

Zellion isn't free of his Torment. He found a prescription drug to deal with the symptoms. He has to keep using the cinderheart to siphon of the scarred portion of his spiritweb in order to overcome it. 

Wit could do something similar if he can find the right tools, but being able to harm people again doesn't really seem important to him. He works from the shadows because the ones he's working against aren't ones you can take in a fight.

For that matter, Hoid does not view this change to be a Torment at all - nor does he think of it as an effect that can or should be overcome. Torment is Nomad's term, not Wit's.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Let's talk about the Torment for a second. Hoid would not call what has happened to him a Torment. Hoid, by holding a Dawnshard, was made permanently unable to cause physical harm to other beings. Eating meat makes him nauseous (if he is somehow able to eat it, and a lot of the times he just can't). That is because of the nature of the Dawnshard that he held actively warping and changing his spirit. He would not name it this.

Nomad has named what has happened to him, a Torment. This is not a term that you can universally apply as a magical aspect of something. This is Sigzil saying "this terrible thing happened to me". And indeed what is happening to Sigzil is on a level beyond what happened to Hoid. So therefore perhaps other arcanists would say, "Yes, these are an aspect of holding a Dawnshard and Torment is the right way", but that word is loaded. That word has meaning, and someone is naming it this.

You are not gonna run into a large set of people- there are only four Dawnshards- and you're not gonna run into a large set of people that have held one, so there may be no consensus even in-world to what these are called, and if they are Torment or blessings or what they are. Holding a Dawnshard will warp your soul. It's so much Investiture, it is so powerful, that you cannot hold one even briefly without it having a permanent effect upon you. 

Secret Project #4 Reveal and Livestream (March 29, 2022)

So, it's possible that Hoid could not use Nomad's method anyway - because he does not have the perception that it is something to be changed or overcome.

Edited February 4, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[NameIess]

Also on the point of Hoid being unable to use Nomad's method, he held the Dawnshard for much, much longer than Nomad did. So the effects on his soul are likely far more profound and extensive, as evidenced by Hoid being unable to eat meat, and surviving being turned into mist without trouble, while Nomad is threatened even by very average forms of weaponry.