Shallan timeskip problem

[Ripheus23]

So, no Shallan-dedicated flashback sections for a whole book, right? In the back half? Would the only way we could have a Shallan flashback to that day, would it be in like a recurring prologue? I mean, if we're following the front half like that. Or would we see a scene where Shallan has a Spiritual vision of herself giving birth to her first child/ren? (Why???)

Another way to have the scene is have it where the Oathpact-abandonment meta-prologue was in the front half, maybe. Would Shallan having a child be that characteristic of the back-half theme, though? I mean, it'd be an interesting mirror of the assassination/taking-a-life scenario from the front half, though I'm still keen on Navani's awakening as a better parallel. I also feel like it might be easier to keep Navani suspended for years and years, so that if there is a recurring prologue scene, it won't be something like "NINE YEARS AGO" or what. (Besides, how many people would be there when Shallan's pregnancy is completed anyway?)

So maybe more like:

• Shallan having a child (meta-prologue scene) (but why?)
• Navani awakening (recurring prologue scene) (I guess you could be like, "Why would that be public enough for five POVs about it?" too, but I'm thinking like, if she's been in stasis, kept alive by the Sibling, for years and years, there's a chance she'll be in a crystal sarcophagus for public display, or some other crazy neo/Alethi practice along those lines. Like, instead of turning her into a statue, they put her in a crystal display, as a weak symbol of hope in the possibility that she might awaken one day. The Coppermind does note that, perhaps oddly (I suppose), "Such funerals [as when someone is Soulcast into a statue] are the only times where Soulcasting is performed publicly."

Oooooh, oh no...! Maybe the scene could be like, they're about to finally Soulcast Navani into a statue, and right as they're about to do it, thinking her too far gone to ever come back, she awakens. Or, someone intervenes, halts the situation, convinces everyone around them to let them try to awaken her, it works, etc.

Anyway, Shallan though... Hmm... Would it be a waste of a character moment, to pass over this one for the most part? Like, we're not really shown anything, of course, about Oroden or Gavinor being born, among many, many others. Actually, I don't clearly remember a childbirth scene anywhere right now, in all of what's now written. So... Hmm... On the one hand, Sanderson doesn't seem to have a strong motive to write childbirth scenes with the regularity of arranged-marriage scenarios  but so that might give him a reason to want to write one for Shallan, as a way to emphasize something particular about Shallan, both as a character/personality profile, and as a figure in the magic/logic sequence of the story. But then her child/ren will have to have a narrative role that's in some sense comparable to the Heralds, and in a way that mirrors the Heralds' abandoning of the Oathpact???

And Adolin might not even get to be there? I mean, it seems like a physical possibility, that getting to Shadesmar in time, or Shallan finding a secure location on Roshar again, or whatever, might be too much for him to accomplish/receive. OTOH, less than a year in to Retribution's tyranny, Azimir might still be pretty safe, so... hmm...

Sidebar: I was also wondering about possible long-term/short-term flashback scenarios set in Shadesmar. Like, if the Grand Knell corresponds to a scene accompanied by an implicit history lesson when it's shown, this might be something like "thousands of years ago" and we see why it got its name, or else characters in modern times met there and something important to spren politics happened, something parallel in importance that is to the political outcome of Gavilar's assassination. You might reason that we've been shown quite enough C-SPREN as of Lasting Integrity but why couldn't we get new such scenes that carried the plot well, later? Look at how many battle scenes we've had. Or even debate scenes, Alethi political scenes, etc.; I see no reason why Shadesmar shenanigans of the same social kind would not be available.

Anyway, my go-to guess would then be: a scene involving the deadeyes making a certain collective progress in their process of enervation.

Anyway, another option would be: there's not a recurring prologue, but a recurring epilogue, and it is to this day of Shallan and Adolin's, and it's something that shows us the spirit of their family Connection, shows us what they are fighting for on some level. For example, if Shallan ever became a Heraldic figure, replacing or alongside her mother, that would resonate with the family Connectivity of the other scene, etc.

Then the meta-prologue is also switched out for a meta-epilogue. Actually, that might be an efficient structure regardless, though what, then? "4500 YEARS FROM NOW"???

More unreconciled data: if I predict that Shallan will take Ash's mantle as a Herald, not because Ash dies necessarily, maybe because it's part of a process for healing her of her ancient trauma: if I predict that, then Shallan should have an important scene in Ash's flashback book, too, but what? I mean, besides if she becomes a Herald, I guess. Well, though, I guess then that that would be the important such scene to have, hmm... Also, if I'm assuming that there's a reason for Shallan to Nahel-bond with Re-Shephir, I'd have to integrate at least the canon about Shallan and her interaction with Re-Shephir with the vision of Shallan's being a mother as an important thematic element of the back half. So, too many variables (meaning: and how many variables have I forgotten, no less?)...

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

Actually, I don't clearly remember a childbirth scene anywhere right now, in all of what's now written.

Adolin's birth was partially on-screen. Oathbringer Ch 49:

Spoiler

Evi looked like she’d fought in a battle.

He’d seen that expression on the faces of soldiers many times: that sweaty brow, that half-dazed, drowsy look. Exhaustionspren, like jets in the air. These were the mark of a person pushed past the limits of what they thought they could do.

She bore a smile of quiet satisfaction. A look of victory. Dalinar pushed past doting surgeons and midwives, stepping up to Evi’s bed. She held out a limp hand. Her left hand, which was wrapped only in a thin envelope that ended at the wrist. It would have been a sign of intimacy, to an Alethi. But Evi still preferred that hand.

“The baby?” he whispered, taking the hand.

“A son. Healthy and strong.”

“A son. I … I have a son?” Dalinar dropped to his knees beside the bed. “Where is he?”

“Being washed, my lord,” said one of the midwives. “He will be returned shortly.”

“Torn buttons,” Evi whispered. “You’ve been fighting again, Dalinar?”

“Just a small diversion.”

“That’s what you say each time.”

Dalinar squeezed her hand through the envelope, too elated to prickle at the chastisement. “You and Toh came here to Alethkar because you wanted someone to protect you. You sought out a fighter, Evi.”

She squeezed his hand back. A nurse approached with a bundle in her arms and Dalinar looked up, stunned, unable to rise.

“Now,” the woman said, “many men are apprehensive at first when—”

She cut off as Dalinar found his strength and seized the child from her arms. He held the boy aloft in both hands, letting out a whooping laugh, gloryspren bursting around him as golden spheres.

“My son!” he said.

“My lord!” the nurse said. “Be careful!”

“He’s a Kholin,” Dalinar said, cradling the child. “He’s made of hardy stuff.” He looked down at the boy, who—red faced—wiggled and thrashed with his tiny fists. He had shockingly thick hair, black and blond mixed. Good coloring. Distinctive.

May you have your father’s strength, Dalinar thought, rubbing the child’s face with his finger, and at least some of your mother’s compassion, little one.

Hope that helps

Edited January 6, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Ripheus23]

34 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Adolin's birth was partially on-screen. Oathbringer Ch 49:

  Hide contents

Evi looked like she’d fought in a battle.

He’d seen that expression on the faces of soldiers many times: that sweaty brow, that half-dazed, drowsy look. Exhaustionspren, like jets in the air. These were the mark of a person pushed past the limits of what they thought they could do.

She bore a smile of quiet satisfaction. A look of victory. Dalinar pushed past doting surgeons and midwives, stepping up to Evi’s bed. She held out a limp hand. Her left hand, which was wrapped only in a thin envelope that ended at the wrist. It would have been a sign of intimacy, to an Alethi. But Evi still preferred that hand.

“The baby?” he whispered, taking the hand.

“A son. Healthy and strong.”

“A son. I … I have a son?” Dalinar dropped to his knees beside the bed. “Where is he?”

“Being washed, my lord,” said one of the midwives. “He will be returned shortly.”

“Torn buttons,” Evi whispered. “You’ve been fighting again, Dalinar?”

“Just a small diversion.”

“That’s what you say each time.”

Dalinar squeezed her hand through the envelope, too elated to prickle at the chastisement. “You and Toh came here to Alethkar because you wanted someone to protect you. You sought out a fighter, Evi.”

She squeezed his hand back. A nurse approached with a bundle in her arms and Dalinar looked up, stunned, unable to rise.

“Now,” the woman said, “many men are apprehensive at first when—”

She cut off as Dalinar found his strength and seized the child from her arms. He held the boy aloft in both hands, letting out a whooping laugh, gloryspren bursting around him as golden spheres.

“My son!” he said.

“My lord!” the nurse said. “Be careful!”

“He’s a Kholin,” Dalinar said, cradling the child. “He’s made of hardy stuff.” He looked down at the boy, who—red faced—wiggled and thrashed with his tiny fists. He had shockingly thick hair, black and blond mixed. Good coloring. Distinctive.

May you have your father’s strength, Dalinar thought, rubbing the child’s face with his finger, and at least some of your mother’s compassion, little one.

Hope that helps

I forgot that one completely  thank you!

And oh man, this makes me hope Adolin gets to be there for Shallan.

[Landis963 he/him]

If nothing else, Seon Olo probably knows about the perpendicularity in the Shattered Plains.  I'm guessing that's why he was headed there when Shallan press-ganged Seon Ala.  So, even if he was diverted to Azimir, even if Ala decides to omit that crucial detail, Olo will undoubtedly tell Adolin as soon as, or perhaps even before, Adolin thinks to ask Olo where he was going before Shallan diverted him and why.  

[#1 Taln Fan he/him]

@Ripheus23 Please avoid putting spoilers in topic titles, as they can be visible from the site home page. I've gone ahead and changed the title of the post for you.