Stormlight and How much of Honor is left

[Master Silver]

The title says it all. From the new oath pact it is official that some of Honor's power cannot be reabsorbed by the Shard Retribution. Does the oath pact protect all spren, Honor's Cultivation's and Odium's? I suppose they would all need to be destroyed by the Fused now.

You have all of the Honor Spren and other spren that are of Honor, not sure how many but that is a good amount of investiture. How many Honor and Wind spren would it take to create another Stormfather?

Then we have the 10 Honorblades (including Kaladin's Honor Spear). There is also Jezrin's blade. If it could be recovered, perhaps Ishar could use it power an oath gate from Urithiru to Azir. 

Then there is a piece of Honor that seemingly leveled up Syl. She is not only the Ancient daughter but now the queen of the Honor spren. Her eyes and natural clothes changed.

Then you have the Sibling, who is a combination of Cultivation and Honor. Perhaps since they know Honor's tone, the Sibling could create stormlight? 

 

[Sophrosyne He/any]

I think this is a good question but it's not one we can answer. It was only in SP4 we got a unit of measurement for investure and to be frank it's not helpful on scales like this given we don't even have how many BEU say a mistborn has or a given spren.

It seems clear to me that the 'basic'/'mindless' spren (Flame, Gloom, etc.) < Raidentspren (Mist, Honour), < Uniquespren (Cusicesh) < Unmade (who have their own Tiers) and finally Godspren like the Stormfather and Nightwatcher. 

Again, to the best of my knowledge there's no way to know how big the gaps are. I'd assume based off standard storytelling that the amount of Honor left unclaimed is enough to make Retribution weaker than Harmony but still massively stronger than the other shards forcing them to team up to deal with him.

2 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Does the oath pact protect all spren, Honor's Cultivation's and Odium's? I suppose they would all need to be destroyed by the Fused now.

100% it protects both Honor and Cultivation's and it likely protects Odium's either directly in the wording of the 'contract' or indirectly in that the only counter to spren is other spren. and killing them with antilight is an option but HUGLY inefficient as compared to just killing the heralds and dissolving the pact.

2 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Then there is a piece of Honor that seemingly leveled up Syl. She is not only the Ancient daughter but now the queen of the Honor spren. Her eyes and natural clothes changed.

Pure speculation but I think unclaimed bit's of Honour had to go SOMEWHERE and alot of it 'chose' to go to not Retribution, thus the power boost to Sylphrena. Maybe other Spren will benefit?

2 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Then you have the Sibling, who is a combination of Cultivation and Honor. Perhaps since they know Honor's tone, the Sibling could create stormlight? 

Sadly they can't. The Sibling can only make tower light, it's mention here and there that it'd be useful if they could make the others but it's just not within their power.

 

Hopfully this was legible!

[Master Silver]

Very legible and great points. If the Spren of Wind received a piece of Honor it could be possible that she create a miniature storm system that goes over Azir that has either its origin in Urithiru (which would be most natural or in Azimir. Honor's power wasn't absorbed it simply way melded (for the most part with Odium). I think the Shard of Honor would still feel bound to allow the Honor blades direct access to his investiture. Meaning that perhaps two Honor blades could power the Oath gates. That is going to be the big problem going forward. How does team Radiant gain access to investiture? Also, at the end of 1000 years Odium can obliterate everyone correct?

[AlmightyGir]

57 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

Also, at the end of 1000 years Odium can obliterate everyone correct?

I don't think he even needs to wait that long. Dalinar as the shardbearer of Honor, renounced all previous oaths, completely unbounding Odium.

The fact that the Honorable part of Retribution feels it necessary to uphold things like the territorial boundaries at the end of the war is actually very interesting as a result.

[Nahema]

Not a direct answer to the thread, but I was thinking about Stormlight, too. I mean - it’s called the Stormlight Archive, it would be strange if Stormlight vanishes after half of the books. I guess there will be a little bit of Stormlight production in the next book(s?) until a new source is discovered or built.

Plus: the shard Honor isn’t meant to be fused with Odium for good, it’s becoming its own master, learning, growing.

[Dager000 He/Him]

I don't disagree that it seems likely that stormlight will be back, eventually. But honestly? I can't even imagine how they would get to that point, given where WaT ended. If Honor splits from Retribution, then sure -- but it feels like that might be many, many years off (in world) given how resistant Shards are to change. Maybe there'll be some way to artificially produce it, using the tone of Honor + Intent + unkeyed Investiture? But at that point, I'm pretty sure that unkeyed Investiture itself would suffice.

More to the point of this thread, though, I'm curious what happened to the other Splintered pieces of Honor. Agree with the boost to Syl, but what are the rest getting up to?

[BinarySecond]

My belief is that the portion of Honour that empowered the Highstorm has gone to Syl. The Highstorm will return when the Heralds do.

Edited January 3, 2025 by BinarySecond

[Nahema]

That’s a good theory. She did accept oaths, and she was built up to that function, I think.

[Argenti he/him]

39 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

My belief is that the portion of Honour that empowered the Highstorm has gone to Syl. The Highstorm will return when the Heralds do.

It's a cool image: 

 

Syl steps back onto Roshar, the storm crackling behind her eyes, staring up at the everstorm that hides the sky.  "I think... I think I could bring it back." she says to Kaladin

"Bring back what?" he asks.

"The Highstorm. I've taken up my father's mantle... maybe..."

Syl holds her hands together, and a cloud of rain, wind, and crackling lighting forms between her palms. Time seems to slow, and the Everstorm overhead goes silent. The Centerbeat. Kaladin thinks, staggering a step back, feeling the rain lash against his skin.

"KALADIN?" Syl's voice booms like thunder, as her father once did. "SHOULD I?" 

"It would surely draw Retribution's attention to us." Ishar warns, seemingly unfazed by the wind.

"So be it. Do it Syl." Kaladin says.

She smiles, and time slows further, the crimson lighting freezing in place. The storm in her hands begins to expand, the wind whipping around all of the heralds.

"I HOPE THIS IS RIGHT." Syl begins to stretch up, impossibly tall. The air grows tense, a blue light illuminating the land. Suddenly, a thundercrack sounds and the sky seems to shift...

In the distance, a storm front begins to gather, stretching down from the heavens to meet the sea. It surges towards roshar, towards the heralds, towards Syl.

The heralds brace themselves for impact as the Stormwall slams into the land, wind howling through Syl's hair, buffeting Kaladin forward. A soft, steady glow comes from Kaladin's pocket. The gems in his pocket were infused.

As the two storms meet, the clouds of the Everstorm are pushed back, revealing the first rays of sun on roshar in a long time.

The Evernight was over. The Desolation had begun.

[BinarySecond]

3 hours ago, Argenti said:

It's a cool image: 

 

Syl steps back onto Roshar, the storm crackling behind her eyes, staring up at the everstorm that hides the sky.  "I think... I think I could bring it back." she says to Kaladin

"Bring back what?" he asks.

"The Highstorm. I've taken up my father's mantle... maybe..."

Syl holds her hands together, and a cloud of rain, wind, and crackling lighting forms between her palms. Time seems to slow, and the Everstorm overhead goes silent. The Centerbeat. Kaladin thinks, staggering a step back, feeling the rain lash against his skin.

"KALADIN?" Syl's voice booms like thunder, as her father once did. "SHOULD I?" 

"It would surely draw Retribution's attention to us." Ishar warns, seemingly unfazed by the wind.

"So be it. Do it Syl." Kaladin says.

She smiles, and time slows further, the crimson lighting freezing in place. The storm in her hands begins to expand, the wind whipping around all of the heralds.

"I HOPE THIS IS RIGHT." Syl begins to stretch up, impossibly tall. The air grows tense, a blue light illuminating the land. Suddenly, a thundercrack sounds and the sky seems to shift...

In the distance, a storm front begins to gather, stretching down from the heavens to meet the sea. It surges towards roshar, towards the heralds, towards Syl.

The heralds brace themselves for impact as the Stormwall slams into the land, wind howling through Syl's hair, buffeting Kaladin forward. A soft, steady glow comes from Kaladin's pocket. The gems in his pocket were infused.

As the two storms meet, the clouds of the Everstorm are pushed back, revealing the first rays of sun on roshar in a long time.

The Evernight was over. The Desolation had begun.

Very nice. I'll get my theory tattooed on my butt so we can confirm in 2031.

[Master Silver]

Also, Kaladin having an Honor Spear now frees Syl up to ride the storms. And possibly she can be in two places at once. Taravangian indicates it is possible for him. If Syl inherited the Stormfather's power, perhaps she can be in more than one place at a time. Also, we shouldn't forget the Wind. It is possible for the Wind to take up the mantel now that the Stormfather is dead. Or perhaps and best case scenario the two of them work together. The Ancient Daught and the Ancient Wind, and get a few hundred honor spren and a thousand wind spren to make a new High Storm. 

[Sophrosyne He/any]

8 hours ago, Argenti said:

The Evernight was over. The Desolation had begun.

Chills mate!
This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the ruleThis post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules chills!

On 1/1/2025 at 1:43 PM, Master Silver said:

That is going to be the big problem going forward. How does team Radiant gain access to investiture?

The heralds being made of Strom light is my second guess behind Sylphrena Strommother. I don't see much reason they couldn't give part of themselves to Radients and naturally reclaim that over time.

On 1/1/2025 at 1:43 PM, Master Silver said:

Also, at the end of 1000 years Odium can obliterate everyone correct?

Retribution COULD do that now; he's got no oaths stopping him. issue is the other shards are after him and he needs a base to defend himself. Plus, if he blew up Roshar he'd further scatter the spren and make it trivial for the heralds to sit in the SR for shards know how long and keep that much mor of Honor from his grasp.