Questions about the nature of shards

[Wanguu He/Him]

Hi, I have been introducing some friends to the cosmere and they have questions about shards that I haven't been able to answer.
1) Each shard has an intent. How does this vary from a prototypical god's domain? For example, Zeus is the god of lightning and storms, etc. It is implied (to my knowledge) that all storms are from Zeus. It doesn't seem like Honor mediates every contract however. We know that Odium can take away people's emotions, but those are only those given to him; he's not responsible for emotions (or do emotions only exist because of Odium?)

2) In many fantasy worlds, Gods receive power / are created by the belief of people. Are shards at all affected by the thoughts of people (not their vessels)

3) If you lived on a world that has not been invested by any shards, would the shards even matter to you? Do they only affect places that they invest?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

31 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

1) Each shard has an intent. How does this vary from a prototypical god's domain? For example, Zeus is the god of lightning and storms, etc. It is implied (to my knowledge) that all storms are from Zeus. It doesn't seem like Honor mediates every contract however. We know that Odium can take away people's emotions, but those are only those given to him; he's not responsible for emotions (or do emotions only exist because of Odium?)

I don't think so, Honor embodies the concept of honor, but he isn't the literal concept of it, it just defines him. Same goes for all of them.

32 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

2) In many fantasy worlds, Gods receive power / are created by the belief of people. Are shards at all affected by the thoughts of people (not their vessels)

Not really, lots of types of Investiture is shaped by how people think of it, but the Shards themselves are composed of so much of it, literally one-sixteenth of all Investiture in the Cosmere, and still have their own Identity that it doesn't really matter how people think of them.

35 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

3) If you lived on a world that has not been invested by any shards, would the shards even matter to you? Do they only affect places that they invest?

This is where it gets a little tricky to grok. See, since Matter, Energy and Investiture is all the same thing in the Cosmere, and all Investiture is now split and 'owned' by each of the Shards, it's impossible for a world to be completely Uninvested.

And since every world was created by Adonalsium or by a Shard, that means there will always be at least a little bit of Investiture, even if no Shard is actively using that Investiture.

First of the Sun is a good example of this. There is Investiture there, with the Aviar and the Perpendicularity, but there isn't a Shard in residence, it's all natural Investiture without a Shard directly Investing, because there was already a bit of Investiture there that became 'theirs' after the Shattering, so they could mess with it without needing to be on the planet.

At least, that's kind of how it goes. I should probably check that WOB about Patji again that describes this better.

[Trusk'our he/him]

48 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

2) In many fantasy worlds, Gods receive power / are created by the belief of people. Are shards at all affected by the thoughts of people (not their vessels)

To some small degree, I believe they can influence a Vessel. 

For example, the belief of the Almighty having doubled pupils could change how he appeared to a Rosharan (he should be able to change that if he wanted though).

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402-starsight-release-party/#e13420

Mason Wheeler

Double Eye of the Almighty, is that just symbolism or does Tanavast have weird pupils?

Brandon Sanderson

That is symbolism. But if you were to see Tanavast and you were on Roshar, he would manifest with weird pupils at that point.

Mason Wheeler

Reflection of how people believe? 

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. But the actual Tanavast before, he did not have weird pupils.

For the Shard itself, perhaps, though I think it will ultimately be slight. The perception of the Vessel matters more.

There is precedence for a mortal having belief in a Shard being a god allowing a greater level of interaction between the two via Connection. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/270-the-hero-of-ages-annotations/#e8010

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Sixty-Four

"You did well, Spook."

Yes, that's Kelsier's voice at the beginning. As I said in a previous annotation, he can't help but meddle.

There is an afterlife in this cosmology I've built, and Kelsier's in it. He never has been able to leave well enough alone. He saw, here, that a piece of the puzzle needed to be put together, so he stepped in and tried to get through to Spook about it.

Spook was the only one in the crew he could speak to. That's because Spook truly has faith in Kelsier as a deity—which, for these few weeks between Preservation's death and the coming of the Hero of Ages, Kelsier is.

 

[Treamayne]

13 hours ago, Wanguu said:

Hi, I have been introducing some friends to the cosmere and they have questions about shards that I haven't been able to answer.
1) Each shard has an intent. How does this vary from a prototypical god's domain? For example, Zeus is the god of lightning and storms, etc. It is implied (to my knowledge) that all storms are from Zeus. It doesn't seem like Honor mediates every contract however. We know that Odium can take away people's emotions, but those are only those given to him; he's not responsible for emotions (or do emotions only exist because of Odium?)

2) In many fantasy worlds, Gods receive power / are created by the belief of people. Are shards at all affected by the thoughts of people (not their vessels)

3) If you lived on a world that has not been invested by any shards, would the shards even matter to you? Do they only affect places that they invest?

You may want to just check out (or share) our wonderful Admin's Primer - Cosmere 101. I also have a Cosmere Intro ePub that I share with friends and coworkers if you have a way to view/share ePub ebooks (Cailbre, reader, app).

1. Shard's diety is not like the Earth Pantheons (Hindu, Greek, Norse, etc.) - it is more that each is a fundamantal aspect (Intent) of Adonalsium.
2. Shards are more affected by their Vessel (usually the Vessel is more shaped by the Shard)
   • though other Investiture (magic) can be influenced or shaped by thoughts and belief of sapient beings.
3. Yes, after the Shattering, all investiture aligned with one or more Intent. Worlds where no Shard has settled - the magic will be more of a setting element than an active component (such as Sixth of the Dusk, or Tress).

Hope that helps

Edited December 20, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Wanguu He/Him]

Thanks for the answers everyone, I think that helps. Though this has made me realize, I don't think we've yet seen a planet that doesn't have a shard or an avatar of a shard (or aethers) claiming it (Except for maybe UTol?) Canticle doesn't seem to have any shard claiming it, but it does have something strange going on.

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, Wanguu said:

Thanks for the answers everyone, I think that helps. Though this has made me realize, I don't think we've yet seen a planet that doesn't have a shard or an avatar of a shard (or aethers) claiming it (Except for maybe UTol?) Canticle doesn't seem to have any shard claiming it, but it does have something strange going on.

Silence Divine (the previously proposed Ashyn Story) would be one such, as there is no Shard there (though there are Shards in the Rosharan System). 

Spoiler

Questioner

So I’ve heard you talk about a book and as a nurse is really interesting to me, or the idea of the book. It’s the one where viruses not only make you sick but they also give you a super power. So I was kind of wondering on the list of when projects are being...

Brandon Sanderson

I originally called this book Silence Divine and the idea behind this book is—I’m always looking for interesting interesting Magic systems and I came up with an idea of “what if viruses and bacteria evolved in line with the magic on the world so that when you caught the disease you got a power” Like if you catch the common cold you could fly, as long as you have it. But when you get over the cold, you can no longer fly. So they keep you alive to help spread themselves and things like that. So when your immune system beats them you lose the power. The book will be about someone who’s basically like half-counter-terrorism, half-police force, where they keep track of these things because what happens when it moves through the city. Like half-CDC, half-counter-terrorism, half-police force. Where suddenly everyone in the city can walk through walls. What do you do, as the police force, when that happens? And things like that. And they keep special people incubating diseases that have come through before and they keep their immune systems low so in an emergency they can go in and catch a bunch of diseases and stuff like that. It’s going to be really awesome.

And the answer is, I have no idea when I can write this book. It is in the Cosmere, so it’s part of all that, but I have no idea because I really feel, coming off the Wheel of Time, the people who are fans of my work, everyone understands, at least I hope they understand, that the Wheel of Time was something I needed to do. But it did delay people getting things like Stormlight Archive and stuff like that. And I feel like right now I really need to dedicate myself to getting a few books out in the Stormlight Archive before I get too distracted by anything else, such as this, and I write books that are really cool but no one’s asking for, really, at this point. (Except for you so thank you.) So I will eventually write that book. I have toyed several times doing a novella in the world just to get that out of my system. So maybe eventually we’ll do that.

Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013)

Also, the potential Kite Magic Story would be such a minor shardworld:

Spoiler

Glamdring804

Yeah, it’s dangerous to leave him unsupervised for extended periods of time, as a random novella might suddenly appear.

Brandon Sanderson

The latest one is a story I really want to write about one of Hoid's apprentices, set in the future of the cosmere (between era 3 and 4) stranded on a minor shardword and trying to figure out their kite-based magic system...

(No time right now, though. Stay on target...)

yahasgaruna

That sounds very much like the first story you wrote about Hoid, doesn't it? About him landing on a new planet and trying to figure out the local magic system?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it would be the spiritual successor of that story. I don't think it would work any more for him, the way he has developed, but I think it could play out very well with one of his many apprentices across the worlds. (Particularly if he's a little more organized about this in the space-age era.)

Someday, I really need to send my old discs from the early 90s out for data recovery, to see if anything is on them. It would be a hoot to read these old stories and really see how much of the Cosmere existed in embryo back when I was a teenager.

General Reddit 2019 (Jan. 2, 2019)

And, of course, Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and Sixth of the Dusk both use this model (though as you say, they are corner cases, since the first did once have a Shard - millenia ago(and currently has whatever the Evil is), and the later does not have a Shard, but does now have an Avatar (though Second and Third of the Sun - the other two inhabited planets do not).

We have also seen this environmental magic interaction on Major Shardworlds - such as the Purelake Fish, that are similar to how Aviar interact with Investiture. 

Spoiler

Kogiopsis

Are there any parallels between the fish in the Purelake and the Aviar in Sixth of the Dusk?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

1) Intent is not the Shard’s domain necessarily. It is more of a restriction than an ability, as they can only act according to that Intent. Also, all of their magic embodies that Intent in some way - Hemalurgy is always end negative, Radiance is focused on growth and Oaths, etc.