Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 This fight can include Awakening/Surges/Lifeless/Nightblood but I feel its equally interesting without them. From what we have seen Vasher and Denth were crazy good as Vasher was able beat Kaladin while suppressing his Divine Breath when they spared and Denth was better then him. If Arsteel and Shashara were still alive and everyone regained their former breaths who did you think would win? My money is on the Heralds but with Nightblood and Kalad's Phantoms as well as Yesteel's new Ichor Alcohol I'm not sure there is anyone in the Cosmere who could stop the Scholars. Side Question how many heralds do you think a full power Arsteel could beat if we are not using Awakening/Surges. I think he could take at least half of them in a 1v1.
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 12 minutes ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: This fight can include Awakening/Surges/Lifeless/Nightblood but I feel its equally interesting without them. From what we have seen Vasher and Denth were crazy good as Vasher was able beat Kaladin while suppressing his Divine Breath when they spared and Denth was better then him. If Arsteel and Shashara were still alive and everyone regained their former breaths who did you think would win? My money is on the Heralds but with Nightblood and Kalad's Phantoms as well as Yesteel's new Ichor Alcohol I'm not sure there is anyone in the Cosmere who could stop the Scholars. Side Question how many heralds do you think a full power Arsteel could beat if we are not using Awakening/Surges. I think he could take at least half of them in a 1v1. Heralds, no shot. Taln is confirmed to be the best fighter in the Cosmere, and could easily take down Arsteel. Heralds have thousands of years of experience fighting, and are masters at their art. They can easily Soulcast or Lash or use Division or Adhesion, to render Awakening useless. They can also heal. 2
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted December 12, 2024 Author Posted December 12, 2024 Fair enough but do you think they could handle the Scholar's armies of lifeless? I know that heralds have been taken down by thunderclasts and Kalad's Phantoms are basically mini versions of them. I do still think Heralds take it 70% of the time but they could simple be overwhelmed. I'm not sure the Scholar's have a counter to Bondsmithing and Taln is insanely good. Still the Scholars are also super human I think they could beat Taln if they all teamed up on him/used the Trick Vasher did on Arsteel and Denth.
DoctaDajman Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: Fair enough but do you think they could handle the Scholar's armies of lifeless? I know that heralds have been taken down by thunderclasts and Kalad's Phantoms are basically mini versions of them. I do still think Heralds take it 70% of the time but they could simple be overwhelmed. I'm not sure the Scholar's have a counter to Bondsmithing and Taln is insanely good. Still the Scholars are also super human I think they could beat Taln if they all teamed up on him/used the Trick Vasher did on Arsteel and Denth. 1 hour ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: Heralds, no shot. Taln is confirmed to be the best fighter in the Cosmere, and could easily take down Arsteel. Heralds have thousands of years of experience fighting, and are masters at their art. They can easily Soulcast or Lash or use Division or Adhesion, to render Awakening useless. They can also heal. I wouldn't sleep on the scholars! I think with that much investiture they would likely resist all forms of invested attacks directly at them. At the 9th heightening they can command at range. All of the heralds would be forced to fight naked... and sphere pouches wont stay on them well at all. 10th heightening the scholars can do it all on a whim and at a thought. Smart mention of Vashers trick. While the Heralds are invested and powerfully at that, I dont think that the overwhelming ecstacy of being handed a bunch of breaths at one time will be lost on them. Nightblood can absolutely consume all 10 heralds if he touches them.... who is to say how non evil he would find them anyways? And the scholars could very likely find a Command that teaches a sword a new definition of evil that would warp the heralds into the target of envy and drive them to kill eachother for the scholars (we have seen that they are more than half broken already). I think a single scholar with nightblood and the 10th heightening could do some serious work on the heralds. Plus they could awaken shardplate... and they have knowledge of aluminum. What would a couple hundred kalads phantoms do if they had a coating of aluminum covering them as well? (I only count it because the scholars knew enough about it to make a sheath to contain nightblood and knowing what we do about nightblood I assume that sheath was very near immediately available after his creation.) Now the Heralds are not easy targets either. Together they could negate the fleeing sphere pouches if they simply fight next to an open perpendicularity. (Can an honorblade do this though? If not ranged silent commands causing spheres to flee would be #1 strat.) Many of the surges are pretty busted. Soulcasting a scholar directly probably wouldn't be beneficial as investiture resists investiture. But soulcasting the air around them or making a vaccum... they have no healing. (This is the crap that literally makes me hate everything stormlight archives related though). Probably not feasible against an army otherwise there would be zero reason to write the Book because they would instantly win all battles. I think each battle would be over really quickly. Scholars best bet is to hide in the lifeless army and surround themselves with phantoms (coated in aluminum or not) use ranged & silent commands to cause the heralds clothes to start strangling / crushing them. When the heralds strip naked then awaken the sphere pouches to try strangling them... once the heralds are forced to fight with only the spheres they can carry things get pretty interesting... Let the heralds fight against the armies as long as possible... awaken the clothing on the lifeless soldiers and force the Heralds to struggle through that as well. When faced down make the ultimate sacrifice and pass all of your breaths to the herald before killing them with their own blades and assuming their powers. Something else that is a good side note. Awakening drains spheres of color and color is an important part of spheres. The first round of ranged awakening will likely drain all spheres as well as the gems inside of them to white... perhaps this will be a big issue as far as how well the spheres can hold stormlight or investiture in general. Big complications potentially. WoBs on gemstone color and awakening Spoiler Questioner With the gemstones, we know that the hue seems to matter more than the rarity. Is that somehow tying in to the colors for Warbreaker, and how that stuff works? Brandon Sanderson Yes, that is tying in. Color will be a recurring theme, much as metal will be a recurring theme, as you see different magic systems work. In this case, the color has an affect on the spren and getting a spren trapped in it. Questioner So just the color itself? Brandon Sanderson Yeah the color is the important part. When I was researching Stormlight, I determined that color had to be the point. Because a lot of the gemstones I'm using are molecularly identical. Questioner So that was the best way to differentiate? Brandon Sanderson So this was the best way to differentiate. But I had already had this as part of the cosmere, that color and the way people perceive color and things like, that were part of it. But getting ten different gemstones that were molecularly different proved to be very difficult and not worth it. If you look, so many of them are just basically the same gemstone with a few impurities. Their crystalline structure is the same. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/355/#e10444 Spoiler zas678 If an Awakener went to Roshar and bled color from a gem, would this gem still hold Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson If an Awakener bled-- No it would-- Oh wait yes it would because a colorless gem could still hold Stormlight. It just would not have-- zas678 Would not have the properties of the original color. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, the color is integral to what's going on because molecularly some of these gems are the same except for the different coloring. The coloring is kind of what-- zas678 What defines what magic. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. It has to with fabrials and some of the effects, and that relates directly to the spren and what spren-- anyway. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/96/#e3203 Edit: Do Honorblades have gemstones as a part of their function? If an awakener drained the color from any gemstone in any fabrial that WoB makes it sound detrimental to the fabrial. But I dont know that honorblades work the same. Edited December 13, 2024 by DoctaDajman
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 When each of the Scholars is double teamed tho strategically Taln would take one and three would fight whoever has Nightblood, it's an unfair fight. Nightblood can be evaded by most Surges, and healing and Surges make it unfair.
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 8 minutes ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: When each of the Scholars is double teamed tho strategically Taln would take one and three would fight whoever has Nightblood, it's an unfair fight. Nightblood can be evaded by most Surges, and healing and Surges make it unfair. A single sacrifice to fill Taln with ecstacy and then drive nightblood through him would fix that. And if awakening at a range drains all gems of color there are untold issues to be had. At the very least they would not hold stormlight as well. At most it could destroy their ability to hold it at all.
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 I feel the main threat to the Scholars is not actually Taln but Jezrien and Nale. Anyone who tries to engage the Scholars up close will be teamed on by lifeless or overdose on breath but Jezrien and Nale could fly above and snipe the Scholars if they get expose themselves. Nighblood and arrows could make up the difference on this front but it would be tough. There are also probably a lot of very clever commands that we have not seen that could deal with Surges. A immobilize command on Jezrien and Nale's clothes could really mess up their flying. Soulcasting will destroy the lifeless with ease though. Also for this fight I don't thinking the lifeless having a aluminum coating is fair. If Scholars have the prep time to get even more powerful lifeless and equip them with awakened blades I think the heralds just get wiped. Scholars could conquer the whole Cosmere with a army like that.
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 The Five Scholars weren't warriors. They were Scholars. I know some of them might be talented, but nowhere near Herald level. Heralds have thousands of years of training, each being incredibly strong, and have a literal Bondsmith unchained, who could easily Connect them to the earth or something. Just now, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: I feel the main threat to the Scholars is not actually Taln but Jezrien and Nale. Anyone who tries to engage the Scholars up close will be teamed on by lifeless or overdose on breath but Jezrien and Nale could fly above and snipe the Scholars if they get expose themselves. Nighblood and arrows could make up the difference on this front but it would be tough. There are also probably a lot of very clever commands that we have not seen that could deal with Surges. A immobilize command on Jezrien and Nale's clothes could really mess up their flying. Soulcasting will destroy the lifeless with ease though. Also for this fight I don't thinking the lifeless having a aluminum coating is fair. If Scholars have the prep time to get even more powerful lifeless and equip them with awakened blades I think the heralds just get wiped. Scholars could conquer the whole Cosmere with a army like that. Alluminum coating can be evaded by the sheer power behind a Shardblade, which can smash through it. Besides, plenty of surges can defeat alluminum Lifeless, without touching them (Soulcasting air into stone, for instance or melting and resealing the stone beneath them) 1
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: The Five Scholars weren't warriors. They were Scholars. I know some of them might be talented, but nowhere near Herald level. Heralds have thousands of years of training, each being incredibly strong, and have a literal Bondsmith unchained, who could easily Connect them to the earth or something. Alluminum coating can be evaded by the sheer power behind a Shardblade, which can smash through it. Besides, plenty of surges can defeat alluminum Lifeless, without touching them (Soulcasting air into stone, for instance or melting and resealing the stone beneath them) The Heralds didn't spend all of that time training for a lot of it they were being tortured. Also the Scholars all fought in the Manywar. They were generals and kings just as much as they were Scholars. I think most of the Heralds are probably better but the gap isn't that far. You also have to factor in the enhanced physical stats and awareness divine breath gives. Your totally right about Bondsmithing though that's just a insane power. Edited December 13, 2024 by Lord Ruler Sylphrena Typo
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 4 minutes ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: The Heralds didn't spend all of that time training for a lot of it they were being tortured. Also the Scholars all fought in the Manywar. The were generals and kings just as much as they were Scholars. I think most of the Heralds are probably better but the gap isn't that far. You also have to factor in the enhanced physical stats and awareness divine breath gives. Your totally right about Bondsmithing though that's just a insane power. regardless wat spoilers: Spoiler Taln and Ash, with no armor or Surges, took down an entire army of Fused. Taln can rip open carapace covered chests and crush crystals with his bare hands. besides that, we're assuming full strength right? so Quote #1 Taln Fan Who in the Cosmere could beat Taln in a fight back when he was in his prime? Brandon Sanderson Depends what level of abilities he has access to. If you're saying access to full abilities, I don't know of anybody who could beat him in an actual one-on-one.
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 13 minutes ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: The Heralds didn't spend all of that time training for a lot of it they were being tortured. Also the Scholars all fought in the Manywar. The were generals and kings just as much as they were Scholars. I think most of the Heralds are probably better but the gap isn't that far. You also have to factor in the enhanced physical stats and awareness divine breath gives. Your totally right about Bondsmithing though that's just a insane power. Does a bondsmith with honorblade open perpendicularities? Is it just tied to honor? 5 minutes ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: regardless wat spoilers: Hide contents Taln and Ash, with no armor or Surges, took down an entire army of Fused. Taln can rip open carapace covered chests and crush crystals with his bare hands. besides that, we're assuming full strength right? so Full strength simply doesn't mean anything when the biggest potential counter is draining the enemy of their supply of power. You awaken the heralds clothing... at range... and with no need to say a word. That awakening drains the color from all of their gems and has a likelihood of destroying those gems ability to hold stormlight at all. I think fuel is something that has to be considered too. Breaths are sticky and don't go away until you kill the person using them. Stormlight leaks... the attack from the scholars should be first and foremost an attack against stormlight. Conveniently, that attack is automatically carried out as they awaken anything touching the herald and near the gems.
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 5 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: Does a bondsmith with honorblade open perpendicularities? Is it just tied to honor? Full strength simply doesn't mean anything when the biggest potential counter is draining the enemy of their supply of power. You awaken the heralds clothing... at range... and with no need to say a word. That awakening drains the color from all of their gems and has a likelihood of destroying those gems ability to hold stormlight at all. I think fuel is something that has to be considered too. Breaths are sticky and don't go away until you kill the person using them. Stormlight leaks... the attack from the scholars should be first and foremost an attack against stormlight. Conveniently, that attack is automatically carried out as they awaken anything touching the herald and near the gems. Even without their Stormlight, they're still the most powerful warriors in the Cosmere (debatably), with one of their average members being able to take down several Windrunners at once, who have Shardblades. And Ishar can create perpendicularities. So the stormlight thing doesn't matter.
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: Even without their Stormlight, they're still the most powerful warriors in the Cosmere (debatably), with one of their average members being able to take down several Windrunners at once, who have Shardblades. And Ishar can create perpendicularities. So the stormlight thing doesn't matter. Vasher took on Kaladin and made Kaladin look like a child throwing a fit. Spoiler 0Questioner Who is the greatest warrior in the cosmere? I think it's Kaladin? Brandon Sanderson Well, define "warrior" versus "soldier" versus-- Questioner Who could win at an all-out fight? Even with powers taken away, I think he could still take on a lot of the other warriors. Brandon Sanderson A question. Are they on a battlefield? 'Cause Kelsier just murders him in his sleep. Questioner Battlefield. Brandon Sanderson The actual soldier, battlefield, is probably Kaladin. Problem is, you could put Dalinar in his prime. And they're both pretty good. But, Kaladin is a true soldier. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/261/#e8778 The ability to tangle up even the best fighters in the cosmere shouldn't be overlooked. Talns strength means nothing if he so much as gets nicked by Nighblood. A single touch of the blade is instant consumption. The scholars could force feed him the heightenings as he gets near them. With a single thought 5 of the heralds will be under stasis effects long enough to touch them with Nightblood. Cut that in half and use your words and they can do it with words from range. Store 25000 breaths in a scarf speak them into the first 5 heralds, then withdraw them and speak them into the other 5. While they are overcome from instantly having the 9th heightening touch them with nightblood. Even if all 5 scholars end it as drabs... Edit: good to know about the perpendicularity thing. I assumed that with the surges coming from an honorblade and not spren directly tied to a shard it would limit that single thing. Edited December 13, 2024 by DoctaDajman
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 1 minute ago, DoctaDajman said: Vasher took on Kaladin and made Kaladin look like a child throwing a fit. Reveal hidden contents 0Questioner Who is the greatest warrior in the cosmere? I think it's Kaladin? Brandon Sanderson Well, define "warrior" versus "soldier" versus-- Questioner Who could win at an all-out fight? Even with powers taken away, I think he could still take on a lot of the other warriors. Brandon Sanderson A question. Are they on a battlefield? 'Cause Kelsier just murders him in his sleep. Questioner Battlefield. Brandon Sanderson The actual soldier, battlefield, is probably Kaladin. Problem is, you could put Dalinar in his prime. And they're both pretty good. But, Kaladin is a true soldier. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/261/#e8778 The ability to tangle up even the best fighters in the cosmere shouldn't be overlooked. Talns strength means nothing if he so much as gets nicked by Nighblood. A single touch of the blade is instant consumption. The scholars could force feed him the heightenings as he gets near them. With a single thought 5 of the heralds will be under stasis effects long enough to touch them with Nightblood. Cut that in half and use your words and they can do it with words from range. Store 25000 breaths in a scarf speak them into the first 5 heralds, then withdraw them and speak them into the other 5. While they are overcome from instantly having the 9th heightening touch them with nightblood. Even if all 5 scholars end it as drabs... The problem is, with a warrior like Taln, they wouldn't touch him. He can easily meld stone to keep them away, or use his Honorblade, which has longer reach by virtue of being a Shardblade. 1
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 6 minutes ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: The problem is, with a warrior like Taln, they wouldn't touch him. He can easily meld stone to keep them away, or use his Honorblade, which has longer reach by virtue of being a Shardblade. The point is that he won't be able to. Instantly being boosted to the 9th heightening from a range is an instant stasis effect. He won't be doing anything. Surgebinding or not he will be completely immobilized. If Taln allows himself the ability to touch them then he is open to an instant counter attack. Hit him with the stasis effect and then kill him with an awakened blade like Nightblood. Once a Herald is hit with those breaths they will be a sitting duck until their body is able to adjust to the pure amount of sensory overload.
Steel Speedster ♂ Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 11 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Talns strength means nothing if he so much as gets nicked by Nighblood. A single touch of the blade is instant consumption. The scholars could force feed him the heightenings as he gets near them. With a single thought 5 of the heralds will be under stasis effects long enough to touch them with Nightblood. Cut that in half and use your words and they can do it with words from range. Store 25000 breaths in a scarf speak them into the first 5 heralds, then withdraw them and speak them into the other 5. While they are overcome from instantly having the 9th heightening touch them with nightblood. Wouldn't withdrawing 25000 Breaths from your scarf stun you? Disregarding that, even if they successfully took out five heralds in their first go, it would take time for them to say the words necessary to get their extra Breaths back and send them into the heralds, which would probably be enough time for at least the heralds with Gravitation or Abrasion to get close. The plan relies on the Scholars being perfectly coordinated. If they mess up just slightly (e.g. two of them stun the same herald leaving another in a position to strike back, they don't kill the herald quick enough after they're stunned, etc.) they are left without Breaths and essentially helpless. There's also only one Nightblood, so even if they managed to stun all 10 heralds, they wouldn't have enough time to kill them all with Nightblood, unless they were grouped together in a nice little clump. Killing them with anything else wouldn't work because the heralds could easily heal it off. 1
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 16 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said: Wouldn't withdrawing 25000 Breaths from your scarf stun you? Disregarding that, even if they successfully took out five heralds in their first go, it would take time for them to say the words necessary to get their extra Breaths back and send them into the heralds, which would probably be enough time for at least the heralds with Gravitation or Abrasion to get close. The plan relies on the Scholars being perfectly coordinated. If they mess up just slightly (e.g. two of them stun the same herald leaving another in a position to strike back, they don't kill the herald quick enough after they're stunned, etc.) they are left without Breaths and essentially helpless. There's also only one Nightblood, so even if they managed to stun all 10 heralds, they wouldn't have enough time to kill them all with Nightblood, unless they were grouped together in a nice little clump. Killing them with anything else wouldn't work because the heralds could easily heal it off. I think that it is explained in Warbreaker that the Breath trick works because Denth and Arsteel had spent time appearing as drab. Moving from drab to 9th heightening wouldn't cause the same shock if you were recently holding those breaths. Denth had spent a lot of time without the sensory overload from heightenings and when it hit him the pure amount of information he had been without was overwhelming. But to give the Breaths away and then take them back again would not have the same effect. Retrieving them from a scarf is as simple as saying "your breath to mine." It's not like it is a process. I dont think that the other heralds can blink in and murder them quite that easily in the space of 5 seconds. We aren't fighting steel compounders. (A steel compounder with nightblood alone could probably kill all of them) And with an army of lifeless or of phantoms to surround and protect them it would be difficult to kill them with honorblades before they get to transfer whatever necessary Breaths they may need.
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 3 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said: Wouldn't withdrawing 25000 Breaths from your scarf stun you? Disregarding that, even if they successfully took out five heralds in their first go, it would take time for them to say the words necessary to get their extra Breaths back and send them into the heralds, which would probably be enough time for at least the heralds with Gravitation or Abrasion to get close. The plan relies on the Scholars being perfectly coordinated. If they mess up just slightly (e.g. two of them stun the same herald leaving another in a position to strike back, they don't kill the herald quick enough after they're stunned, etc.) they are left without Breaths and essentially helpless. There's also only one Nightblood, so even if they managed to stun all 10 heralds, they wouldn't have enough time to kill them all with Nightblood, unless they were grouped together in a nice little clump. Killing them with anything else wouldn't work because the heralds could easily heal it off. I think losing those breaths would feel like a massive hangover but as long as they don't give them all up in one go they should be fine (Their one divine breath is still worth 5000 so its not that much of shock). The plan for the Scholars is to make sure the majority of the Heralds are fighting lifeless while they take down their most dangerous members (Taln, Ishar). If Heralds are cautious they can definitely win with the superior power of the Surges. The hordes of lifeless probably wont kill any heralds but their only purpose in this fight is to make sure the Scholars don't fight with a numbers disadvantage. Having high level awakening gives you a lot of opportunities and having lifeless as human shields means I don't think the Scholars need to have a perfect plan, they just need to fight a bit smarter then Heralds. There are ton of pathways which can cause this to go either way and I really hope we see a fight like this in era 3.
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 1 hour ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: I think losing those breaths would feel like a massive hangover but as long as they don't give them all up in one go they should be fine (Their one divine breath is still worth 5000 so its not that much of shock). The plan for the Scholars is to make sure the majority of the Heralds are fighting lifeless while they take down their most dangerous members (Taln, Ishar). If Heralds are cautious they can definitely win with the superior power of the Surges. The hordes of lifeless probably wont kill any heralds but their only purpose in this fight is to make sure the Scholars don't fight with a numbers disadvantage. Having high level awakening gives you a lot of opportunities and having lifeless as human shields means I don't think the Scholars need to have a perfect plan, they just need to fight a bit smarter then Heralds. There are ton of pathways which can cause this to go either way and I really hope we see a fight like this in era 3. That is how I see it playing out. Distractions everywhere and targeting the heralds that mean the most. I dont want to sound like I think it goes Scholars even 50% of the time. I think the Heralds have a far easier path to victory... surges are stupidly broken and the healing factor on Roshar as a whole makes me loath that portion of the cosmere.... (Unpopular opinion but I almost wish I had never learned of Roshar. I spend way too much time trying to convince myself that other systems stand a chance when the reality is that answers like "soulcast the air around their head in aluminum" and "sever their connection to life" are options.) I would say that the Scholars are known for knowing more than just awakening. They are not limited in anyway to a location and they carry the most universal magic system there is. Vasher can exist on Roshar and feed his divine breath stormlight. Some WoBs hint to awakening with stormlight as well. This goes away from the arena style scenario and into a far more preparation style of format... Long term, I would argue that Vasher and Arsteel could potentially band together and dang near take out the entirety of Roshar or Scadrial alone. They are the cosmeres top Scholars. Roshar is progressing in a magitech direction. That magitech is based around gems which have color integral to them... what would happen to the tower if all of the color were drained from it? It is basically a giant fabrial right? Color is a big part of fabrials working. Once the information on how to awaken with stormlight is gained it becomes even easier for awakeners with 10th heightening to do their thing. They can awaken silently, at a range, and lose no breath from it. Stepping into far theoretical realm here... if stormlight awakens but doesn't cling like breaths and it drains off of the items over time... A single 10th heightening awakener could reanimate an entire army, and create pseudo shardplate and blades on every member of an army in the presence of an open perpendicularity. These lifeless would resist investiture and have soulcutting weapons only momentarily until the stormlight faded too much and you would not be left with the fallout of having thousands of new shards for worlds to fight over.
alder24 Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) Taln would crush all Five Scholars with Nightblood at once, even without his Honorblade. I have no doubt about it. Heralds were shown to have inhuman speed, reaction time and strength, Taln caught a dart midair, Nale caught an arrow, Ishar bested several Windrunners and Dalinar without even breaking a sweat. They are masters of fighting, the best Cosmere has to offer. They fought armies of Regals and Fused - invested individual wielding Surges - for centuries, Lifeless are nothing in comparison . As much as I love Five Scholars and Awakening, this is not a competition, this is execution. Any Herald would win against one of the Five if you gave them their Honorblade. The only way for Scholars to win is if you gave them an element of surprise and taking Honorblades away from Heralds. Spoiler Questioner How would Adolin fare against the greats like Lan, Rand, Galad, and how would Kaladin and his spear fare against Mat? Brandon Sanderson It’s really hard to say this, because what are different characters’ skill levels and things? For instance, I generally count Lan as the strongest and the best. My [Wheel of Time] books that I wrote show that. I think Lan would beat Adolin. You just can’t replace the twenty years of intense practice that Lan has, and the wisdom, no matter how talented of a rookie you are -- even though Adolin is not a rookie. I think Lan could go toe-to-toe with anyone non-immortal in the cosmere, because a lot of the cosmere people have an advantage, right? Taln has spent 4,000 years practicing with weapons. Granted, he spent a bunch of that time being tortured as well, but you know. He has many lifetimes behind him, and has been able to be killed making mistakes and never make those mistakes again. That is a leg up on someone like Lan or like Adolin that is just of a supernatural level. And so, while I think Lan would beat any swordsman in a fair fight from the Cosmere, I would count anyone who has a greatly expanded lifespan as an unfair fight. Like, I don’t think Lan would be able to stand against the better duelists among the Heralds or even against Vasher. Vasher’s got multiple lifetimes of practicing with the sword. How would Kaladin do against Mat? It depends, Mat’s luck is a very big wildcard, and how is the luck on Mat’s side and how is karma working in Mat’s favor or against him in that given moment? That’s part of what makes Mat fun. So Kaladin is a soldier, again, not a duelist. Kaladin is really good with a spear, but his training is in war, his training is to be a battlefield captain. What even is Mat? Mat has been trained by fate itself with weapons, which is just really hard to play. Let’s call that a tie, edge probably to Kaladin. Lan beats Adolin or basically any duelist but you put him up against the Heralds and he has a much harder time. YouTube Livestream 16 (Aug. 20, 2020) 21 hours ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: I think they could beat Taln if they all teamed up on him/used the Trick Vasher did on Arsteel and Denth. I wouldn't work as well on them as it worked on Denth because Heralds already are one of the most invested people in Cosmere - they are way more invested than Returned. If they have their Honorblades, it means they have access to Stormlight directly from Honor and because Honorblade require much more Stormlight than Radiant Surgebinding, they would be filled to brim with investiture and giving them Breaths would be like adding a drop of water to an already full glass. RoW ch 15: Quote “The Fused?” Kaladin asked. "That’s what they are?” “Yeah,” he said. “Most of us stop aging when it happens, gaining a kind of immortality.” “Is there a … way to kill something like you? Permanently?” “Lots of ways. For the weaker ones, just kill the body again, make sure no one Invests the soul with more strength, and they’ll slip away in a few minutes. For stronger ones … well, you might be able to starve them. A lot of Type Twos feed on power. Keeps them going. “These enemies of yours though, I think they’re too strong for that. They’ve lasted thousands of years already, and seem Connected to Odium to feed directly on his power." Spoiler Argent If we are looking at very highly Invested beings, we have Yumi, and we are told that she is more Invested than Elantrians, more Invested than Returned. Let's compare Yumi, Elantrians, and Heralds. Who is most Invested, who is least Invested? Brandon Sanderson Of those, probably Heralds... The thing is, the Heralds varied. How in tune and aligned they are with their oaths, their promise... It wasn't Oaths, but they did promise certain things when they became Heralds. It was pre Knights Radiants, it's not as formalized as Oaths. How in line with the power of Honor, how in line with the kind of natural Investiture of Roshar--which is separate from Honor, Cultivation and Odium--are they, how can they draw upon that. I will call them the least of the three though. Argent So Heralds on the bottom, and Yumi on top, and Elantrians in the middle? Brandon Sanderson Yumi on top, but Yumi's very close to an Elantrian. They're within the same conversation. And most of the yoki-hijo were traditionally in the past less, they've gained Investiture over time. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Spoiler Steeldancer The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? Brandon Sanderson Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. Steeldancer Like Vin and Elend? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do. Steeldancer The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson RAFO Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017) Spoiler Windrunner88 (paraphrased) So far during The Stormlight Archive we've seen that the spren bond appears to have some distinct advantages (i.e. armor, more efficient Stormlight consumption, access to a variety of weapons) over what Tanavast via the Oathpact provided the Heralds. With the exception of Nale, and the fact that the Heralds had no need for Stormlight, can you please tell me one way in which a Herald had a distinct advantage over a level 5 Radiant of their corresponding order? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Rebirth. *pause* The Heralds had access to raw levels of power that no Radiant could obtain. BookCon 2018 (June 1, 2018) 20 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Nightblood can absolutely consume all 10 heralds if he touches them IF... RoW ch 111: Quote Ishar fought brilliantly as the other Windrunners tried to gang up on him. He was a blur with a flashing Blade, parrying, dodging, skepping his Blade —making it vanish for a brief moment to pass through a weapon trying to block it. The Windrunners had only recently started practicing the technique; Ishar performed the complex move with the grace of long familiarity. [...] Among the Heralds, Ishar was average in skill. [...] Ishar faced all five Windrunners at once, and it seemed easy for him. He blocked one, then another, stepping away as a third tried to spear down from above, then swept around with his Blade, slicing the heads off two non-Shard spears. [...] Ishar then turned and raised his Shardblade in one hand to deflect one of Lyn’s strikes. Leyten came in, trying to flank, but he looked clumsy compared to the old Herald. Fortunately for the five, Ishar merely defended himself. Despite earnestly trying, none could land a blow. It was as if … as if they were trying to hit where Ishar was, while he was able to move in anticipation of where they would be. Not to mention that Ishar, as a Bondsmith, can take away what makes Nightblood Nightblood. Spoiler Scott Beckman (paraphrased) Which is scarier... Which is more dangerous: a sword that wants to destroy evil, or a Bondsmith with no bounds? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) A Bondsmith with no bounds. Scott Beckman (paraphrased) Can an unbound Bondsmith take that sword's... ability for himself? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Not exactly, but something similar. Probably not what you're thinking, but he could essentially take what that sword is, yes. Miscellaneous 2022 (Sept. 17, 2022) 20 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: And the scholars could very likely find a Command that teaches a sword a new definition of evil that would warp the heralds into the target of envy and drive them to kill eachother for the scholars (we have seen that they are more than half broken already). That's not how it works. Nightblood's Command is unchangeable and Heralds, because they are highly invested, would be immune to Nightblood's mind control trick. Even a God King with all his Breaths wouldn't be able to break Nightblood's Command. Spoiler Storming Radiant Can Susebron break Nightblood's commands? Brandon Sanderson Nope. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Susebron just isn't strong enough. ICon 2019 (Oct. 17, 2019) 20 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Plus they could awaken shardplate... Shardplate can't be Awakened because it's already considered as Awakened. Spoiler Questioner Can you awaken a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson Can you Awaken a Shardblade? A Shardblade would already be defined as Awakened, by the magic systems. Questioner And what about the Plate? Brandon Sanderson Plate would already be defined as probably too heavily Invested to Awaken because it already is. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Spoiler Questioner So is it possible to Awaken a Shardblade? That's the question-- that's my question for you. Brandon Sanderson Um... With the magic system of Awakening, you mean? Questioner Yeah. Brandon Sanderson So, all forms of Investiture strongly resist other forms of Investiture. Questioner Makes sense. Brandon Sanderson *brief interruption* Nightblood is essentially an Awakened... Trying to do that. Questioner 'Cause he shows up in Words of Radiance, right? Brandon Sanderson Yes. So, it-- let's just say it'd be very, very hard. Because it's like saying, "Can-- I want to turn on a lightbulb that's been turned on." Yes, you can... maybe... I don't know what that even means. It's already Invested. It's already Awakened. Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016) 20 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: and they have knowledge of aluminum. So do Heralds. 20 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: What would a couple hundred kalads phantoms do if they had a coating of aluminum covering them as well? Nothing because they wouldn't be able to even see. While Lifeless see with their eyes, Phantoms don't have any eyes, they would see via Steelsight. Aluminum blocks it so they would be essentially blind. Spoiler Questioner In Awakening an object when you give it the sort of Command like, go get the keys, or something. How does that object perceive the world around it? Since it doesn't have standard human senses, how does it see? How does it touch? Brandon Sanderson It is not-- Moderator Repeat the question. Brandon Sanderson Oh… go ahead. Moderator The question was, how do Awakened objects actually perceive the world. Brandon Sanderson …The closest correlation you have to this is how Inquisitors see. Questioner Okay, following up on that say, someone who has-- say someone with bronze who-- a bronze Misting managed to somehow get access to Breath and Awaken would he then be able to tell that object "Hey I sense this Allomancer over there, can you find it". Brandon Sanderson That is not outside the realm of possibility. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) Heralds fought repeatedly against Magnified Ones, who can grow steel-like carapace at will. They would know how to deal with Kalad's Phantoms. And this is getting unfair - if you allow Scholars to raise an army of Lifeless, why not allow Heralds to raise their own army as they commonly did every Desolation? Just using Honorblade, Heralds would cut through such an army like through butter, with Surges they would devastate such an army in a single minute. 20 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Do Honorblades have gemstones as a part of their function? No. 19 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: Does a bondsmith with honorblade open perpendicularities? Is it just tied to honor? It's a Bondsmith skill. But Heralds in their prime drew power directly from Honor - they didn't need perpendicularity, Stormlight or spheres (WoB somewhere above). 1 hour ago, DoctaDajman said: Once the information on how to awaken with stormlight is gained it becomes even easier for awakeners with 10th heightening to do their thing. Nobody knows how to do it yet and it would still require a ridiculous amount of Stormlight to reach 10th Heightening. 1 hour ago, DoctaDajman said: Stepping into far theoretical realm here... if stormlight awakens but doesn't cling like breaths and it drains off of the items over time... A single 10th heightening awakener could reanimate an entire army, and create pseudo shardplate and blades on every member of an army in the presence of an open perpendicularity. These lifeless would resist investiture and have soulcutting weapons only momentarily until the stormlight faded too much and you would not be left with the fallout of having thousands of new shards for worlds to fight over. Just a note, Dalinar's perpendicularity is not enough to create a god metal - Shardplate and Shardblade are god metals. Creating weapons like that would be asking for way too much investiture than a perpendicularity can provide. Impossible in short. Soul-cutting weapons require sentience and that needs a ton of investiture. Spoiler Haylo_Alex You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal? Brandon Sanderson So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge. Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB. General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 4, 2020) Edited December 13, 2024 by alder24
TwinStorm He/Him Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 18 hours ago, DoctaDajman said: The point is that he won't be able to. Instantly being boosted to the 9th heightening from a range is an instant stasis effect. He won't be doing anything. Surgebinding or not he will be completely immobilized. If Taln allows himself the ability to touch them then he is open to an instant counter attack. Hit him with the stasis effect and then kill him with an awakened blade like Nightblood. Once a Herald is hit with those breaths they will be a sitting duck until their body is able to adjust to the pure amount of sensory overload. Regardless, they don't have enough Breaths to stun every Herald, only half of them.
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 35 minutes ago, alder24 said: Just a note, Dalinar's perpendicularity is not enough to create a god metal - Shardplate and Shardblade are god metals. Creating weapons like that would be asking for way too much investiture than a perpendicularity can provide. Impossible in short. Soul-cutting weapons require sentience and that needs a ton of investiture. So if Nightblood took 1000 breaths to awaken then the average returned is more than two times more invested than the perpendicularity that Dalinar created? A 10th heightening person is therefore more than 50x more invested than Dalinar's perpendicularity? I think the sentience is what is necessary along with the breaths. IF someone could awaken with stormlight they would funnel that stormlight into the weapons with the command and intent. I believe the command and intent are what cause the sentience. Thus, without using your own biochromatic breaths you could use the stormlight to provide the juice for the awakening and it should work until the stormlight leaks out... As I said it is not a forever solution but it is sound given what we have seen. 37 minutes ago, alder24 said: Shardplate can't be Awakened because it's already considered as Awakened. I meant they could awaken armor to act as a psuedo shardplate should have clarified that. I didnt think shardplate to be relevant aside from creating something to block the blows of honorblades. 43 minutes ago, alder24 said: I wouldn't work as well on them as it worked on Denth because Heralds already are one of the most invested people in Cosmere - they are way more invested than Returned. If they have their Honorblades, it means they have access to Stormlight directly from Honor and because Honorblade require much more Stormlight than Radiant Surgebinding, they would be filled to brim with investiture and giving them Breaths would be like adding a drop of water to an already full glass. I think Brandon has hinted that Sus was the most invested non-shard in the cosmere... 10th heightening is no slouch. Also I dont think it is the influx of the investiture that causes the ecstasy effect on Denth... it is how that investiture manifests itself as things like perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, aura recognition, lifesense, and in the case of the 7th heightening the ability to sense static investiture as well. No matter how invested a Herald is the senses would explode with activity and basically short circuit their brain. Put 2 fighters in a room and ask them to fight then, in a single push of a button, turn out the lights, start up strobes and start blasting foghorns. The world they knew will be so dull to them. They will be experiencing a wave of sensations their body has never experienced before. Like a baby being born via C-section. Your life was padded and safe. Sounds were quieter and you have never seen light or felt touch before. Then a hand grabs you and yanks you out of your home, pulls you up to a massive bright light and then carries you to a table where I get to rub and pat you dry and start blowing a bunch of air on you. The sensation overload would be a problem no matter how invested a Herald is because their investment doesnt come with all of the extra sensations that the heightenings have. While Heralds are shown to catch darts and 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Heralds were shown to have inhuman speed, reaction time and strength, Taln caught a dart midair, Nale caught an arrow, Ishar bested several Windrunners and Dalinar without even breaking a sweat. You boast the inhuman speed here... We see Vivenna's awakened cloak catch an arrow. Yeah the Heralds are fast but these feats don't prove anything other than they are as fast as a brand new awakeners cloak is. 1 hour ago, alder24 said: And this is getting unfair - if you allow Scholars to raise an army of Lifeless, why not allow Heralds to raise their own army as they commonly did every Desolation? Just using Honorblade, Heralds would cut through such an army like through butter, with Surges they would devastate such an army in a single minute. I mention lifeless only because it is an integral part of the Scholars backstory and experience as generals, kings and a queen. If we wanted to get truly ludicrous I would say the 10th heightening offers a Scholar the ability to spend a minimum of 25 thousand breaths (25 Nightbloods worth) awakening a power suit of metal. They could throw blades on chains and create a suit of slicing, dicing, evil destroying fun. And the suit would be every bit as quick... if not faster... than the Heralds using dart catching as our metric of measurement. And this would still leave them with enough breaths to, at a range of their voice, send all of that sensory overload into a Herald at the speed of their voice. 55 minutes ago, Ookla the Irreplaceable said: Regardless, they don't have enough Breaths to stun every Herald, only half of them. We don't know how many breaths the Scholars had each but we know that at least one had access to enough for the 10th heightening. We also know you can split your breaths and that Denth was lying about the all or nothing bit he delivered to Vivenna. The order of operations in this case is: Start with 50,000 breaths granting 10th heightening Store 25,000 breaths into an item maintaining the 9th heightening to allow for ranged commands. When someone gets close enough speak the command "My life to yours. My breath become yours.” while picturing the Herald you are targeting. Immediately speak the command "Your breath to mine." to your item which will allow you to retrieve your second 25000 breaths acting as a reload for your second assault. 5 10th heightening scholars could use this attack a bare minimum of twice each. Potentially more depending on how close to the ~100,000 breath mark to obtain the 11th heightening. 5x2=10 heralds reeling from the sensory overload.
Immortal Platypus Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 12 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: I think Brandon has hinted that Sus was the most invested non-shard in the cosmere... 10th heightening is no slouch. Also I dont think it is the influx of the investiture that causes the ecstasy effect on Denth... it is how that investiture manifests itself as things like perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, aura recognition, lifesense, and in the case of the 7th heightening the ability to sense static investiture as well. No matter how invested a Herald is the senses would explode with activity and basically short circuit their brain. Put 2 fighters in a room and ask them to fight then, in a single push of a button, turn out the lights, start up strobes and start blasting foghorns. The world they knew will be so dull to them. They will be experiencing a wave of sensations their body has never experienced before. You're conflicting yourself with this argument. The Heralds are already incredibly Invested, and probably have many, if not all, of these effects already. Thus, this wouldn't affect them as much as it did Denth. Also, if you lose all of these Breaths, that would probably also stun you, at least somewhat. Then, regaining them from your scarf would probably also stun you. On another note, does anyone know if the target needs to hear the command to gain the Breath?
DoctaDajman Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Ookla the Arbiter said: You're conflicting yourself with this argument. The Heralds are already incredibly Invested, and probably have many, if not all, of these effects already. Thus, this wouldn't affect them as much as it did Denth. Also, if you lose all of these Breaths, that would probably also stun you, at least somewhat. Then, regaining them from your scarf would probably also stun you. Spoiler The effects of various Heightenings can be replicated through merely being highly Invested, such as by holding a Dawnshard. I don't know if there is a better way to explain this. The type of investiture matters. Kaladin is mistaken for having a heightening because he is invested and creates a slightly higher aura but he doesn't have any of the effects of having the heightening's. If everyone experienced perfected sensations like biochromatic breaths give then it would be noted somewhere. Even if we granted something akin to perfect pitch and color recognition to the dawnshard it is not the same as having the lifesense and invested breath recognition. Hoid is extremely invested as well... but he mentions perfect pitch to Kaladin in a nod towards having enough biochromatic breath to be the 2nd heightening. So no, simply being the most invested being outside of the godking does not and would not equate to having the same sensory effects of the heightening's. Vasher does use the trick and he doesn't skip a beat. He is prepared and knows he is going to enter drab mode. He knows it. The fact that it works on another Returned is proof of how effective it is. It was only hundreds of breaths that caught Denth by surprise and I am suggesting tens of thousands! Huge difference. Further I don't believe for a second that getting rid of the breath and then reloading quickly after that would cause the same shock any more than your eyes needing to readjust to the light after closing them for a few seconds. But for someone who has never experienced that it would absolutely overload their system. Like a frog in a pot of water.... If you were sleeping well in a darkened room and someone came in shouting and opened up the curtains to noon day you wouldn't be able to function until everything adjusted. But you can blink in the middle of noon day and not worry about disorientation, right? That is the scenario. A tiny moment of turning out the lights before turning them back on immediately following. 48 minutes ago, Ookla the Arbiter said: On another note, does anyone know if the target needs to hear the command to gain the Breath? I would say no. Spoiler The Ninth Heightening also grants Audible Command, the ability to Awaken objects that they are not physically touching, but that are within the sound of their voice. Edit: I love your profile picture by the way! Edited December 13, 2024 by DoctaDajman
alder24 Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 41 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: So if Nightblood took 1000 breaths to awaken then the average returned is more than two times more invested than the perpendicularity that Dalinar created? A 10th heightening person is therefore more than 50x more invested than Dalinar's perpendicularity? Nightblood is not your average Shardblade, he's more invested than the God Kind, more than even Unmades or Nightwatcher. It's a special weapon that can't be made again, because Endowment was involved in his creation. Five Scholars can't create more weapons like him. And of course, nobody wants to create another Nightblood (except Shashara, who's dead). Spoiler LeFlshe At Dragonsteel this year, you confirmed that Nightblood is not a Dawnshard. However, its abilities seem to be far greater than that of Vivenna’s blade, presumably made with the same method. This disparity may be due to the person who originally Awakened the swords and leads one to believe that Nightblood, despite not being the Dawnshard, had a Dawnshard involved in its creation. Therefore, is Shashara, the person who Awakened Nightblood, a Dawnshard? Brandon Sanderson Excellent questions. You’ve got one faulty premise: Vivenna’s sword was intentionally designed differently to not get another Nightblood. So let’s keep that in mind. That said, I don’t know that they could make another Nightblood if they wanted to. But she definitely did not want to, and there’s a different process that they use nowadays for safer swords. Questioner 2 Is Vivenna’s sword better or worse than Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson Depends on what you want from the sword. Vivenna’s sword does not automatically suck the soul and Investiture out of anything it touches, disintegrating that which it touches, which is both a plus and a minus. YouTube Spoiler Stream 6 (Dec. 19, 2023) Spoiler OrangeJedi When Nightblood created, was Endowment involved in any way more than normal? Brandon Sanderson Good question, you qualified that the right way! I would say yes, but maybe not to the extent you're thinking. OrangeJedi Normal being using Endowment's Investiture to Awaken. There's something special. Brandon Sanderson I would say, there is something special. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) 46 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: I think the sentience is what is necessary along with the breaths. IF someone could awaken with stormlight they would funnel that stormlight into the weapons with the command and intent. I believe the command and intent are what cause the sentience. Thus, without using your own biochromatic breaths you could use the stormlight to provide the juice for the awakening and it should work until the stormlight leaks out... As I said it is not a forever solution but it is sound given what we have seen. Yes you can, but a perpendicularity is not an ideal source of investiture for that and that was my point. 48 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: Also I dont think it is the influx of the investiture that causes the ecstasy effect on Denth... it is how that investiture manifests itself as things like perfect pitch, perfect color recognition, aura recognition, lifesense, and in the case of the 7th heightening the ability to sense static investiture as well. No matter how invested a Herald is the senses would explode with activity and basically short circuit their brain. Every type of investiture grants effects comparable to Heightenings. Just holding a ton of Stormlight would provide them with perfect pitch, color recognition, life sense etc and that's without mentioning their own innate investiture which is way greater than a Divine Breath. Giving Heralds Breaths wouldn't cause any sensual ecstasy because they already have investiture that gives them this. Spoiler tskyeguye From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects? Brandon Sanderson The latter. Skrimyt Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be? Brandon Sanderson Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy. But RAFO to specifics. Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020) 52 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: You boast the inhuman speed here... We see Vivenna's awakened cloak catch an arrow. Yeah the Heralds are fast but these feats don't prove anything other than they are as fast as a brand new awakeners cloak is. This means that they can easily dodge any strike a Scholar throws at them, including the use of Awakened objects like ropes. 54 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said: I mention lifeless only because it is an integral part of the Scholars backstory and experience as generals, kings and a queen. If we wanted to get truly ludicrous I would say the 10th heightening offers a Scholar the ability to spend a minimum of 25 thousand breaths (25 Nightbloods worth) awakening a power suit of metal. They could throw blades on chains and create a suit of slicing, dicing, evil destroying fun. And the suit would be every bit as quick... if not faster... than the Heralds using dart catching as our metric of measurement. No new Nightblood! That kind of Shardplate can be easily dealt with Honorblades and Surges. Just lash a giant rock into it and it would crack open like an egg, use Cohesion to melt the ground and bury it alive, Progression to bind it with thousands vines, Soulcasting to trap it in a box of rock, aluminum, or flammable oil etc. Shardplates aren't really that powerful in the world of Surges - storming Kaladin killed a Shardbearer without Surges and later significantly cracked a plate by lashing himself into it. 46 minutes ago, Ookla the Arbiter said: On another note, does anyone know if the target needs to hear the command to gain the Breath? From Coppermind: Quote The Ninth Heightening also grants Audible Command, the ability to Awaken objects that they are not physically touching, but that are within the sound of their voice.
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