Awakening and nicrosil compounding theory (unlikely but fun head cannon)

[DoctaDajman]

I will start by saying that I dont believe nicrosil will ever be able to compound biochromatic breath.  

However... what if it simply took the breath that was in there and magnified its size... 

I imagine it being closer to potentially adding more heightening with less breaths. We see it with divine breath. 5th heightening with a single breath.  2000x more powerful than a single normal breath. 

So someone who has compounded enough could potentially unlock a higher heightening while still being limited in the amount of awakening they could do because they simply don't have the resources. 

If someone had a breath that was magnified to 10x what a normal one is would it result in a more lifelike lifeless?  

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, DoctaDajman said:

I will start by saying that I dont believe nicrosil will ever be able to compound biochromatic breath.  

However... what if it simply took the breath that was in there and magnified its size... 

I imagine it being closer to potentially adding more heightening with less breaths. We see it with divine breath. 5th heightening with a single breath.  2000x more powerful than a single normal breath. 

So someone who has compounded enough could potentially unlock a higher heightening while still being limited in the amount of awakening they could do because they simply don't have the resources. 

If someone had a breath that was magnified to 10x what a normal one is would it result in a more lifelike lifeless?  

I'll have to find the WoB at some point, but I think there's one saying that burning a Metalmind filled with Breath keyed to you only returns it to you.

I think the reason Compounding is possible is because Allomancy and Feruchemy are cousin systems. Trying to Invest another Shard's power into a Metalmind and burn it probably won't yeild another Shard's power.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, DoctaDajman said:

I will start by saying that I dont believe nicrosil will ever be able to compound biochromatic breath.  

However... what if it simply took the breath that was in there and magnified its size... 

I imagine it being closer to potentially adding more heightening with less breaths.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

I'll have to find the WoB at some point, but I think there's one saying that burning a Metalmind filled with Breath keyed to you only returns it to you.

I think the reason Compounding is possible is because Allomancy and Feruchemy are cousin systems. Trying to Invest another Shard's power into a Metalmind and burn it probably won't yeild another Shard's power.

 

Here are the WoBs (initial and follow-up):

Spoiler

Quote

Quote

Questioner

What would happen if an Allomancer burned Awakened metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh boy, we start right with the really hard ones. So, it would be very difficult to do, and other than that it's going to depend on who the Breaths are keyed to with Identity.

Footnote: followed-up by this
Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

Questioner (paraphrased)

What would happen if Allomancer was also an Awakener and Awakened metal he'd burn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

If he did that, he’d get Allomantic power and also get back the Breaths used in Awakening the metal.

Footnote: Supposedly it was around half an hour into the signing line; has not been found on the record although we may have started it after it was asked already; follow-up to this
Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

 

3 hours ago, DoctaDajman said:

We see it with divine breath. 5th heightening with a single breath.  2000x more powerful than a single normal breath. 

That's because it is a Splinter of Endowment, not BioChromatic Breath - which is why it behaves differently and cannot be used to Awaken - it exists in the SR (attached to the Spiritweb) rather than in the PR where it can be used and transferred.

This is also tied into why the one (known) effect of expending a Divine Breath is healing - much like Stormlight or F-Gold, it is applying to the Spiritweb of the target to heal in all three realms and restore the person to their Ideal (which is also why Susebron could speak with a tongue he had never had before - the Divine Breath filled in the gaps since he already knoew the language and the words. . . )

Hope that helps

[Quantus he/him]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

I'll have to find the WoB at some point, but I think there's one saying that burning a Metalmind filled with Breath keyed to you only returns it to you.

I think the reason Compounding is possible is because Allomancy and Feruchemy are cousin systems. Trying to Invest another Shard's power into a Metalmind and burn it probably won't yeild another Shard's power.

Id like to read that WOB, because I suspect it was talking about using Heighentings/Awakening methods to store breaths into a non-specific Metal for compounding, rather than compounding Breaths Stored by a Feruchemist in Nicrosil specifically (which WOB confirms a Nicrosil Ferring can store via feruchemy).   I'd think that so long as the Investiture in question is stored in the metalmind using Feruchemy it would become fair game for Compounding, which should be a viable way to convert Preservation's Investiture into Breaths or Stormlight or maybe even Dor if the Ferring can find a way to Store it in Nicrosil. 

WOB does say that most of the magic systems can be hacked together (with varying degrees of difficulty) so I dont think both being Metallic Arts cousin systems is going to be a hard requirement. 

Similarly, if Bendalloy compounder became Aetherbound they should theoretcially be able to use basic Water Storage feruchemy to shunt Preservation's Investiture directly to their Prime Aether with only Metal supplies and the Spiritweb strain of Savantism as limits.  

I suspect those sorts of conversions are intended to be major geopolitical factors in the Space Age era.  

 

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

Id like to read that WOB, because I suspect it was talking about using Heighentings/Awakening methods to store breaths into a non-specific Metal for compounding, rather than compounding Breaths Stored by a Feruchemist in Nicrosil specifically (which WOB confirms a Nicrosil Ferring can store via feruchemy).  

@Treamayne's second WoB is the one I was thinking of. 

And yes, it does specify that they're talking about using Awakening to put the Breath in the metal. 

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

I'd think that so long as the Investiture in question is stored in the metalmind using Feruchemy it would become fair game for Compounding, which should be a viable way to convert Preservation's Investiture into Breaths or Stormlight or maybe even Dor if the Ferring can find a way to Store it in Nicrosil. 

WOB does say that most of the magic systems can be hacked together (with varying degrees of difficulty) so I dont think both being Metallic Arts cousin systems is going to be a hard requirement. 

I think I disagree with this idea until more books or WoBs detail the matter more. Partly because of of in-world difficulties, partly because Compounding Breath in particular would almost certainly be a game breaking power.

I think storing Feruchemically or placing the Breath in directly will affect the output very little. Both deal with moving it around, with Feruchemical attributes remaining the same (like tapping wakefulness from a Bronzemind filled with caffeine-induced energy won't give you a good night's sleep) and Breaths really only changing their Identity when transferred. And while Commands change the effects of the Breath, the WoB specifically calls that out, leaving me skeptical of that scenario.

As for splicing Allomancy with other MoI, I think it's more difficult to hack than most others, while Compounding is possible because Feruchemy is a cousin system (there's another WoB I could've sworn I'd seen before talking about Allomancy and Feruchemy being easier to hack together because they're related, but I can find it now).

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332-jordancon-2018/#e9513

yulerule

So if you were in the cosmere, and you know how it works, or how it all should work. Would you hack it like all ridiculously and like what would you-- Do you have a plan of action.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah I would. I would have two choices. I would go hide on the planet I know is safe, and ride it all out. I have those two options.

yulerule

What was the second option?

Brandon Sanderson

Well the second option is try to take over, right? 'Cause I know all the secrets. I don't know which one I would do.

yulerule

Would you be able to hack it all?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, would I be able to? It depends on where I am in the cosmere, and how easy it is to get a hold of some Investiture.

yulerule

But once you get some initial Investiture then you go out.

Brandon Sanderson

Then things start rolling. As soon as you can get one of the easy ones, it's easy to use, transfer. 

Argent

Like Breath.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah like Breath, or uh...

yulerule

Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, well Mistborn's harder, but you know Breath is the easiest I've approached so far. Unless you kind distill it, then you've got the... Anyway. We won't go there. You saw that in Secret History. 

Argent

Oh, oh that.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. When you strip off all kinds of identity and stuff.

Argent

Connection Juice...not Connection Juice.

Brandon Sanderson

Connection Juice?

Argent

Yeah, that's what we're calling it.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, okay I suppose.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/5-dragoncon-2016/#e3233

Questioner

You've mentioned in the last couple of afterwords that you get interesting results when you mix types of Investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Twinborn and Surgebinders on Roshar. Can you mix a form of magic with a source of Investiture? Can say Vasher use Stormlight in place of Breaths or would that require tampering via Hemalurgy or something like that?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of them require tampering. Some of them are a little bit easier than others. It depends on really what you mean. For instance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? It's just-- But that's not really using the magic, it's just charging it with other Investiture. But, you know, it would be very easy, for instance, if you can get yourself Invested-- Like, for instance, it'd be very easy to use Breaths to fuel Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that are going to make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the processes these work easier than other ones.

 

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

Similarly, if Bendalloy compounder became Aetherbound they should theoretcially be able to use basic Water Storage feruchemy to shunt Preservation's Investiture directly to their Prime Aether with only Metal supplies and the Spiritweb strain of Savantism as limits.  

Yes, you can use that as a way to fuel Aetheric functions, but it's a bit more jankie than that. You're using Compounding to replenish fluids, which you can then use to obtain more Investiture from the Aether. You're not directly using Preservation's Investiture to fuel your Aether in the same way base Compounding does though. 

It's the same scenario where if Lift could Compound Bendalloy she could get more Lifelight, but still in a roundabout way.

I will say, I do think some kind of hack exists where Nalthians will be able to someday obtain Breath from sources other than just people. I just don't think Compounding is the method.

[DoctaDajman]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

@Treamayne's second WoB is the one I was thinking of. 

And yes, it does specify that they're talking about using Awakening to put the Breath in the metal. 

I think I disagree with this idea until more books or WoBs detail the matter more. Partly because of of in-world difficulties, partly because Compounding Breath in particular would almost certainly be a game breaking power.

I think storing Feruchemically or placing the Breath in directly will affect the output very little. Both deal with moving it around, with Feruchemical attributes remaining the same (like tapping wakefulness from a Bronzemind filled with caffeine-induced energy won't give you a good night's sleep) and Breaths really only changing their Identity when transferred. And while Commands change the effects of the Breath, the WoB specifically calls that out, leaving me skeptical of that scenario.

As for splicing Allomancy with other MoI, I think it's more difficult to hack than most others, while Compounding is possible because Feruchemy is a cousin system (there's another WoB I could've sworn I'd seen before talking about Allomancy and Feruchemy being easier to hack together because they're related, but I can find it now).

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332-jordancon-2018/#e9513

yulerule

So if you were in the cosmere, and you know how it works, or how it all should work. Would you hack it like all ridiculously and like what would you-- Do you have a plan of action.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah I would. I would have two choices. I would go hide on the planet I know is safe, and ride it all out. I have those two options.

yulerule

What was the second option?

Brandon Sanderson

Well the second option is try to take over, right? 'Cause I know all the secrets. I don't know which one I would do.

yulerule

Would you be able to hack it all?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, would I be able to? It depends on where I am in the cosmere, and how easy it is to get a hold of some Investiture.

yulerule

But once you get some initial Investiture then you go out.

Brandon Sanderson

Then things start rolling. As soon as you can get one of the easy ones, it's easy to use, transfer. 

Argent

Like Breath.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah like Breath, or uh...

yulerule

Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, well Mistborn's harder, but you know Breath is the easiest I've approached so far. Unless you kind distill it, then you've got the... Anyway. We won't go there. You saw that in Secret History. 

Argent

Oh, oh that.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. When you strip off all kinds of identity and stuff.

Argent

Connection Juice...not Connection Juice.

Brandon Sanderson

Connection Juice?

Argent

Yeah, that's what we're calling it.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, okay I suppose.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/5-dragoncon-2016/#e3233

Questioner

You've mentioned in the last couple of afterwords that you get interesting results when you mix types of Investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Twinborn and Surgebinders on Roshar. Can you mix a form of magic with a source of Investiture? Can say Vasher use Stormlight in place of Breaths or would that require tampering via Hemalurgy or something like that?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of them require tampering. Some of them are a little bit easier than others. It depends on really what you mean. For instance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? It's just-- But that's not really using the magic, it's just charging it with other Investiture. But, you know, it would be very easy, for instance, if you can get yourself Invested-- Like, for instance, it'd be very easy to use Breaths to fuel Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that are going to make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the processes these work easier than other ones.

 

Yes, you can use that as a way to fuel Aetheric functions, but it's a bit more jankie than that. You're using Compounding to replenish fluids, which you can then use to obtain more Investiture from the Aether. You're not directly using Preservation's Investiture to fuel your Aether in the same way base Compounding does though. 

It's the same scenario where if Lift could Compound Bendalloy she could get more Lifelight, but still in a roundabout way.

I will say, I do think some kind of hack exists where Nalthians will be able to someday obtain Breath from sources other than just people. I just don't think Compounding is the method.

My thoughts were not directly related to more breaths, rather that each breath would become larger and bigger. Thinking more along the lines of how I think copper compounding could potentially make the memories more vivid and easier to navigate. 

A 10x stronger breath compounded would allow someone with only the 5th or 6th heightening to gain benefits to the 9th heightening. Potentially. Not more breath but stronger breath. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

30 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

My thoughts were not directly related to more breaths, rather that each breath would become larger and bigger. Thinking more along the lines of how I think copper compounding could potentially make the memories more vivid and easier to navigate. 

A 10x stronger breath compounded would allow someone with only the 5th or 6th heightening to gain benefits to the 9th heightening. Potentially. Not more breath but stronger breath. 

I still don't know that it would pan out.

I just don't see Compounding being the way to hack Endowment's Investiture, at least currently. 

But, I certainly could be wrong. We'll just have to read and find out.

[Quantus he/him]

On 12/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, Trusk'our said:

I think I disagree with this idea until more books or WoBs detail the matter more. Partly because of of in-world difficulties, partly because Compounding Breath in particular would almost certainly be a game breaking power.

...

I will say, I do think some kind of hack exists where Nalthians will be able to someday obtain Breath from sources other than just people. I just don't think Compounding is the method.

Agreed, I think it's inevitable, by some mechanism if not by the direct Compounding I describe.  ON the Game-breaking bit, he's been very specific that this is not shooting for any sort of game-style balance, it's about narratively interesting (in the same way Nukes are objectively stupid OP, but they're a thing we have to deal with).  I dont think being able to manufacture Breaths in itself would move the whole Cosmere to a post-scarcity state or anything, it would just move the monopoly  on Investiture to those groups that have a means of bringing Investiture over from the Spiritual Realm that is more scalable than Nalthis's planetary Birthrate.  That's seems like the perfect sort of thing to elevate specific planets/cultures to a Superpower Status in the Space Age.  

We'll just have to RAFO on the How, I guess.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, Trusk'our said:

I think storing Feruchemically or placing the Breath in directly will affect the output very little. Both deal with moving it around, with Feruchemical attributes remaining the same (like tapping wakefulness from a Bronzemind filled with caffeine-induced energy won't give you a good night's sleep) and Breaths really only changing their Identity when transferred. And while Commands change the effects of the Breath, the WoB specifically calls that out, leaving me skeptical of that scenario.

Oh, I think the Metalmind Storage mechanism and the "Command to Move" Awakening method of moving Breaths are going to have several functional differences and at least some we can anticipate.  For example, Feruchemical Storage would not allow for any modification of the Breaths Identity (without 2ndary intervention) in the way Commands commonly will.  

BUUUUT, I do have to remind myself that Im actually a little skeptical of the idea that Breaths can even BE stored feruchemically.  Hemalurgic Nicrosil can steal (and thus technically store) raw Investiture like Breaths. But the wording and examples of F-Nicrosil say that it stores the Ability to use Investiture but not the investiture itself; you can store and tap the Misting ability but you still need to Burn a metal to get the Investiture, and WOB says you can store a Divine Breath but also confirms that Breaths and Divine Breaths are fundamentally different realmically and/or for the purposes of metallic arts.  

On 12/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, Trusk'our said:

As for splicing Allomancy with other MoI, I think it's more difficult to hack than most others, while Compounding is possible because Feruchemy is a cousin system (there's another WoB I could've sworn I'd seen before talking about Allomancy and Feruchemy being easier to hack together because they're related, but I can find it now).

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/332-jordancon-2018/#e9513

yulerule

So if you were in the cosmere, and you know how it works, or how it all should work. Would you hack it like all ridiculously and like what would you-- Do you have a plan of action.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah I would. I would have two choices. I would go hide on the planet I know is safe, and ride it all out. I have those two options.

yulerule

What was the second option?

Brandon Sanderson

Well the second option is try to take over, right? 'Cause I know all the secrets. I don't know which one I would do.

yulerule

Would you be able to hack it all?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, would I be able to? It depends on where I am in the cosmere, and how easy it is to get a hold of some Investiture.

yulerule

But once you get some initial Investiture then you go out.

Brandon Sanderson

Then things start rolling. As soon as you can get one of the easy ones, it's easy to use, transfer. 

Argent

Like Breath.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah like Breath, or uh...

yulerule

Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, well Mistborn's harder, but you know Breath is the easiest I've approached so far. Unless you kind distill it, then you've got the... Anyway. We won't go there. You saw that in Secret History. 

Argent

Oh, oh that.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. When you strip off all kinds of identity and stuff.

Argent

Connection Juice...not Connection Juice.

Brandon Sanderson

Connection Juice?

Argent

Yeah, that's what we're calling it.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, okay I suppose.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/5-dragoncon-2016/#e3233

Questioner

You've mentioned in the last couple of afterwords that you get interesting results when you mix types of Investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Twinborn and Surgebinders on Roshar. Can you mix a form of magic with a source of Investiture? Can say Vasher use Stormlight in place of Breaths or would that require tampering via Hemalurgy or something like that?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of them require tampering. Some of them are a little bit easier than others. It depends on really what you mean. For instance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? It's just-- But that's not really using the magic, it's just charging it with other Investiture. But, you know, it would be very easy, for instance, if you can get yourself Invested-- Like, for instance, it'd be very easy to use Breaths to fuel Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that are going to make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the processes these work easier than other ones.

 

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, that first WOB says that becoming a Mistborn is hard, and the second says that Fueling Allomancy with some other Investiture is Hard (even though we've seen at least one method now). 

Im not talking about either of those things, Im talking about Fueling other magics with Allomancy and/or converting Preservation's Investiture into some other form using Allomancy and that the Tunable Metal Burning effect of Compounding as the transducer.  Allomancy, and Feruchemy to a much lesser extent, are two of the very few magics that are capable of moving Investiture directly from the Spiritual Realm, without the need of some environmentally limited Perpendicularity (Shardpool, Birthrate, Highstorm, magic planetary body, etc).

On 12/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, Trusk'our said:

Yes, you can use that as a way to fuel Aetheric functions, but it's a bit more jankie than that. You're using Compounding to replenish fluids, which you can then use to obtain more Investiture from the Aether. You're not directly using Preservation's Investiture to fuel your Aether in the same way base Compounding does though. 

It's the same scenario where if Lift could Compound Bendalloy she could get more Lifelight, but still in a roundabout way.

 

Sorry, looking back I really didnt explain my thought on this one very well, and I have several buried assumptions in it.  Let me try again:  Where the Nahel bond grants the Spren a realmic Anchor in exchange for Investiture effects, Luhel Bond trades Physical Matter for Investiture and/or Investiture Effects. So assumption #1 is that the Prime Aethers actively Want or even Need Water (or literally just Investiture realmically tuned to Hydration, perhaps).  If that's the case, the Investiture as Crystal or Vines whatever is the payment of the transaction, but (here's assumption #2) might not be functionally required for the process.  Normally it's all naturally limited by how much water the Aetherbounds' body can absorb and how fast, but the Feruchemy has no upper limit on Tapping Rate.  So a motivated Aetherbound might be able to essentially leave the spigot open in the background without needing to manifest anything overt, and just have a constant internal burn cycle, trading Metal to Preservation for Investiture but using Compouding to Tune it all to Hydration Investiture immediately shunt it directly to their Prime Aether.  Which would become a very tiny siphon if Investiture from the Big-A side of the Cosmere balance equation over to separate (per WOB) Aether side of things.    

All that being said, the real thing I find most interesting about this option is that the very strong indication the Allomancy is just a Luhel Bond to Preservation (by Hoids' definition in Tress), meaning you'd be hacking two Luhel Bonds directly into each other, if (assumption #3) a single person is capable of having two Luhel Bonds the same way they can have two Nahel Bonds, and/or that both the Prime and Preservation/Harmony would choose to allow it the same way both Spren would need to.  

[DoctaDajman]

27 minutes ago, Quantus said:

All that being said, the real thing I find most interesting about this option is that the very strong indication the Allomancy is just a Luhel Bond to Preservation (by Hoids' definition in Tress), meaning you'd be hacking two Luhel Bonds directly into each other, if (assumption #3) a single person is capable of having two Luhel Bonds the same way they can have two Nahel Bonds, and/or that both the Prime and Preservation/Harmony would choose to allow it the same way both Spren would need to. 

This is something that has fascinated me for a while. But it makes me wonder.  

You say allow but I am skeptical by how much a shard can do... Harmony could not do anything to Bleeder without her having 2 spikes. Then he had all control minus her decision to log out of her own life. 

If a shard could simply remove and sever their bond why would they not do it?  Rool of cool is to blame if the ability is there and explains them not doing it.  However bleeder makes me wonder if that is even possible for them. 

So I tend to think that the only entity making this choice would have to be the Aether. In which case I dont see why they wouldn't. They definately seem like they need the water more than simply wanting it. 

My head cannon has always been that if an aether could find a bendalloy compounder they would be lining up for it. It's like an endless supply for an addict.  

Although then I wonder, and this risks getting really off topic, what about healing?  Why wouldn't an aether set up camp on Roshar and bond to every radiant they can? You get dehydrated, breath in a bit of stormlight and heal from it. 

Perhaps they have tried and the issue there is that the spren dislike the bond (like spren don't really dig hemalurgy). An Aether tries to set up shop with a radiant and the radiants spren breaks their bond and no more healing anyways. 

I do imagine Miles would have been a good choice for a bond though. He could continue to heal through the dehydration right? 

In TLM Wayne makes a comment to Not Wayne about being strangled and how fast it burns through healing stores (it continues to require more and more healing until you breath again). But one of the names for a gold ferring is bloodmaker. Wouldn't dehydration be solved instantly by making more parts of the blood?  It's not like you keep using gold stores until you start drinking again... or at least it won't have nearly the same affect as strangulation I dont think. 

Anyways. Back on topic, if a shard like Harmony is incapable of smiting and removing your power directly, then a gold or bendalloy compounder would be such an ideal person to bond for an Aether. (Or even a spore eater who can fuel that spore for decades with enough metal). 

[Quantus he/him]

 

 

26 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

This is something that has fascinated me for a while. But it makes me wonder.  

You say allow but I am skeptical by how much a shard can do... Harmony could not do anything to Bleeder without her having 2 spikes. Then he had all control minus her decision to log out of her own life. 

If a shard could simply remove and sever their bond why would they not do it?  Rool of cool is to blame if the ability is there and explains them not doing it.  However bleeder makes me wonder if that is even possible for them. 

So I tend to think that the only entity making this choice would have to be the Aether. In which case I dont see why they wouldn't. They definately seem like they need the water more than simply wanting it. 

My head cannon has always been that if an aether could find a bendalloy compounder they would be lining up for it. It's like an endless supply for an addict.  

Bleeder was a Kandra so their relationship the shards is odd on the face of it, and they dont innately have allomancy.  And while Preservation couldnt so certain things Harmony has more uncontested Power. Per WOB a solitary Shard can do a whole lot more than we've seen to their population, simply because they have no Peer to disagree.  Per WOB they absolutely can just smite people out of existence and things if no other shard disagrees, so Id think a lesser form of Spiritweb Severing would also be on the table.  

But generally I agree, it's more likely that the Prime Aether would refuse to Bind to a born and/or Snapped Allomancer once the bond written into their sDNA was awakened, and only if the Aether knows of some realmic Danger to itself for allowing that kind of Connection to a Shard that we arent aware of.  Not so much because I think the Vessel of Preservation would be incapable (if they can snap with the Mists to send messages and even modify the expression of godmetals and Mistings.  

26 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

Although then I wonder, and this risks getting really off topic, what about healing?  Why wouldn't an aether set up camp on Roshar and bond to every radiant they can? You get dehydrated, breath in a bit of stormlight and heal from it. 

Perhaps they have tried and the issue there is that the spren dislike the bond (like spren don't really dig hemalurgy). An Aether tries to set up shop with a radiant and the radiants spren breaks their bond and no more healing anyways. 

I do imagine Miles would have been a good choice for a bond though. He could continue to heal through the dehydration right? 

In TLM Wayne makes a comment to Not Wayne about being strangled and how fast it burns through healing stores (it continues to require more and more healing until you breath again). But one of the names for a gold ferring is bloodmaker. Wouldn't dehydration be solved instantly by making more parts of the blood?  It's not like you keep using gold stores until you start drinking again... or at least it won't have nearly the same affect as strangulation I dont think. 

Exactly, it's basically the same as using Healing instead of Bendalloy to Heal the cellular Damage of Malnutrition or Dehydration instead of stopping the cause: It still sucks to experience, and it's also very inefficient from an investiture standpoint, Spiritual Healing is one of the most costly.  So why do it if you have another option?  You can also Set yourself on Fire and heal the damage as it comes, but it would be better to put out the fire (or use Brass to prevent the burning, which per WOB is possible but a little counter-intuitive).  

 

26 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

Anyways. Back on topic, if a shard like Harmony is incapable of smiting and removing your power directly, then a gold or bendalloy compounder would be such an ideal person to bond for an Aether. (Or even a spore eater who can fuel that spore for decades with enough metal). 

Per WOB a Shard can smite folks.  They cannot just like Choose to Block the power any more than they can casually turn off Gravity, generally speaking they have to play by the realmic rules and cant just prevent it from working whenever they want.  But if there's no opposition they can smite a person just fine, which "is an effective way of making that happen", and the Scadrian shards get more access to the people than average because they're infused into their essence more.  And if they can Kill Somebody they can Maim them, which would include being able to do targeted spiritual Damage like severing Connections.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/370/#e11817

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/370/#e11815

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by Quantus