Mattel Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 It is abundantly clear now that something massive and very important happened at Narak, Storm seat, that broke the Shattered Plains (I guess back then they were just "the Plains" haha) and now they have a strange pattern and symmetry to the plateaus. At one point in WoR, when Shallan realizes the pattern to the Shattered Plains, she says something about Cymatics, and then barges on saying they need to get back to the war camps. So here is my theory: What if Honor was killed at the shattered plains, and the amount of Anti-Stormlight used created a massive cymatic plate out of the shattered plains? We are only aware of four methods for killing Shards: Night blood, Anti-light, whatever Odium did to ravage the other Shards, and the Shard giving out too much of themselves and dwindling away. I doubt Odium had Nightblood, Anti-light seems like a good alternative, I doubt Tanavast would have let Odium have the opportunity to do to him whatever he did to the other Shards, and maybe Honor physically gave himself out to men? "Honor lives on in the hearts of men," and all that? Thoughts on this theory? 1
Treamayne Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 5 hours ago, Mattel said: It is abundantly clear now that something massive and very important happened at Narak, Storm seat, that broke the Shattered Plains (I guess back then they were just "the Plains" haha) and now they have a strange pattern and symmetry to the plateaus. At one point in WoR, when Shallan realizes the pattern to the Shattered Plains, she says something about Cymatics, and then barges on saying they need to get back to the war camps. So here is my theory: What if Honor was killed at the shattered plains, and the amount of Anti-Stormlight used created a massive cymatic plate out of the shattered plains? We are only aware of four methods for killing Shards: Night blood, Anti-light, whatever Odium did to ravage the other Shards, and the Shard giving out too much of themselves and dwindling away. I doubt Odium had Nightblood, Anti-light seems like a good alternative, I doubt Tanavast would have let Odium have the opportunity to do to him whatever he did to the other Shards, and maybe Honor physically gave himself out to men? "Honor lives on in the hearts of men," and all that? Thoughts on this theory? Interesting theories, but please note: Nightblood cannot kill a Shard (but did kill a Vessel) Anti-light also cannot kill a Shard (or, would require so much that the devestation would be far far worse that the Shattered Plains. The Plains were shattered long before Honor was Splintered The Plains were shattered before Aharietiam Honor was Splintered around the time of the Recreance (thousands of years later) WoBs: Spoiler Quote lucagreene18 If Szeth were to have drawn Nightblood immediately after he had consumed Rayse, would he still have drained Szeth's Stormlight? As it said he seemed like he had eaten as much as he could. Brandon Sanderson At that point, Nightblood had entered into essentially a food coma... Well, no, the food coma one came when he was drawing from the perpendicularity. I don't think he was in food coma mode at that point. I think that he could still have drawn more at that point, I'd have to go look at exactly what I wrote, if I'd put him into food coma mode or not. It is possible. This is one of the things I wanted to answer with the book. A lot of people have been theorizing, could Nightblood eat an entire Shard? And indeed, Nightblood could not eat an entire Shard. That is not within his capability. In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard. I did see questions about that from people floating around, and it's something I'd been meaning to get to eventually. Nightblood is definitely relevant to things that are happening in the Cosmere, but it is not as simple as grabbing the sword, sticking it into a Shard, and defeating the Shard, unfortunately. Though, as you see in this book, there are reasons for a Shard to still be afraid of Nightblood. It didn't destroy Odium, but Rayse still really had a bad time. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) Quote James Clifford Science question! Brandon Sanderson Ohh science. Is it real science, or fake science? Adam Horne It is Brandon science. Brandon Sanderson Fake science! James Clifford With the discovery of anti-Investiture in Rhythm of War, would the correct form of anti-Investiture be usable to clear up the mess in the Sel Cognitive Realm. If so, would this completely destroy a splintered Shard? Brandon Sanderson *laughs, coughs, and is otherwise stunned* That would not be a good idea. So why would that not be a good idea? So no, this would not clear up the problem. The problem that's going on in the Cognitive Realm in Sel is that a bunch of Investiture that should be in the Spiritual Realm has been packed into the Cognitive Realm instead, through a very weird circumstance of events. If you were to introduce a bunch of anti-Investiture of the right type there, you would just generate an explosion that would be a very bad thing. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, Investiture can't be either, so it's actually changing forms. It's going from Investiture into energy! Which you know, does not leave the system. So the investiture would eventually make its way back around, you can't destroy anything in the Cosmere, just like you can't destroy anything in our universe. But you can make it change forms. And so, what's going on there is just this hope by a certain individual that what has happened there will prevent the power from becoming self-aware. It's basically Odium being like "alright I just murdered you people, I don't wanna have to come back and do it again". So he's trying to figure out a way to make this happen. As it currently stands (again, these things can change when I write future books), it was partially happenstance that he took advantage of rather than something that he was able to set up very intentionally from the beginning, but he was definitely a part. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) Quote R'Shara Does anti-Investiture react to a different Shard’s Investiture in any significant way? Brandon Sanderson The answer is kind of a no, kind of a yes. Mostly a no. Anti-Investiture is going to have an explosive reaction. But the thing is, if it’s anti-Investiture of a specific Shard, that explosion is much grander. But you can make that explosion happen in a just antimatter-and-matter same sort of thing. But you can make the explosion bigger. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Quote Questioner (Written in someone's book with an arrow pointing at the Shattered Plains) Brandon Sanderson Great magic unleashed here. Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013) The Last Legion, during the Last Desolation (Aharietiam) was sent to fight in the farthest plains, probably the plains of Natanatan and the Shattered Plains.[7] One day the Last Legion, or at least some members of the Last Legion, four hundred strong,[29] fled, leaving the forms of power for dullform. Despite being thus crippled, it led to freedom from their gods. Later, near the time of the Recreance and the False Desolation,[40] the Unmade Ba-Ado-Mishram Connected to most singers, providing the singers with forms of power and Voidlight.[41] The Knights Radiant sought to stop this threat by imprisoning Ba-Ado-Mishram. They succeeded but, in doing so, stole part of singers' souls, turning them into slaveform.[42] The listeners were spared from this event, and so it seems that they were not involved with the False Desolation. Hope that helps 3
alder24 Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mattel said: It is abundantly clear now that something massive and very important happened at Narak, Storm seat, that broke the Shattered Plains (I guess back then they were just "the Plains" haha) and now they have a strange pattern and symmetry to the plateaus. At one point in WoR, when Shallan realizes the pattern to the Shattered Plains, she says something about Cymatics, and then barges on saying they need to get back to the war camps. So here is my theory: What if Honor was killed at the shattered plains, and the amount of Anti-Stormlight used created a massive cymatic plate out of the shattered plains? We are only aware of four methods for killing Shards: Night blood, Anti-light, whatever Odium did to ravage the other Shards, and the Shard giving out too much of themselves and dwindling away. I doubt Odium had Nightblood, Anti-light seems like a good alternative, I doubt Tanavast would have let Odium have the opportunity to do to him whatever he did to the other Shards, and maybe Honor physically gave himself out to men? "Honor lives on in the hearts of men," and all that? Thoughts on this theory? We unfortunately don't know a way to kill the Shard. We only know the general idea of it, but not how it works in detail. We know that the easiest way to do that is to kill the Vessel and then Splinter its power, but what it means to Splinter the power is unknown. Nightblood, Anti-light are not even close to being able to kill the entire Shard. Shardic power is basically infinite, but they can kill the Vessel - Nightblood killed Rayse, the Vessel of Odium, but the Shard of Odium was not affected - Nightblood can't hold infinity. Similarly, you can't create enough Anti-light to kill the entire Shard. It's impossible and the discovery of Anti-light is very fresh. You should be able to create enough Anti-light to kill the Vessel as the Vessel could be trapped in a gemstone that can hold an Unmade (which has more investiture than the Vessel). So whatever Odium did to kill Honor and other Shards was very different from using Nightblood or Anti-light. Also because Shards are basically infinite, they can't give out too much of themselves and dwindle away - it's simply impossible. We know that in the past Odium did use some exploits and argued others had broken a word they had given, which allowed him to Splinter Devotion and Dominion. This is something Odium said is dangerous for Shards, if they break their Oath, this will create an opening that will allow other Shards to exploit it and Splinter that Shard. This is probably how Honor was Splinter, but we don't know that. And this also happened primarily in the Spiritual Realm, but such an event can transcend all Realms and have effects on the Physical Realm. We also know that Honor's death was a long process, we don't know when he was dealt the killing blow, but he was fighting till the end and then it took him some time to died and be Splintered. I doubt however that this caused the Shattering of the Stormseat. Timeline doesn't really fit for this. Personally, I think the Shattered Plains were destroyed by using the Anti-tone of the Stormseat and amplifying it from the center of the city. Each Dawncity has its own, unique frequency, so reversing its frequency, creating Anti-tone of that could have devastating effects and destroy it. The Shattered Plains have a clear, symmetrical pattern, just like any other Dawncity, I believed this pattern was an Anti-tone of Stormseat used to destroy it. It was also said in Listeners songs that it wasn't their gods that broke the Shattered Plains so this suggests that it wasn't because Odium killed Honor as Odium is one of Singer's gods. Someone else must have destroyed the city. RoW ch 97: Quote “We could never create enough of this anti-Light to threaten Odium,” Raboniel whispered. RoW ch 112: Quote “Basically?” Dalinar pressed. “What happens, Odium, if you break your word.” “Then the contract is void, and I am in your power. Same, but reversed, if you break the contract. You would be in my power, and the restrictions Honor placed upon me—chaining me to the Rosharan system and preventing me from using my powers on most individuals—would be void. But that is not going to happen, and I am not going to break my word. Because if I did, it would create a hole in my soul—which would let Cultivation kill me." Song of Wars: Quote They blame our people For the loss of that land The city that once covered it Did range the eastern strand. The power made known in the tomes of our clan Our gods were not who shattered these plains. Spoiler Questioner With Shards, are there any... limits? What can't they do? Besides being opposed by another Shard and their own intent? Brandon Sanderson It varies a lot. It varies based on experience and situation. They are not omnipotent, though the power is infinite. So that is the weird part that you get into. So, they are limited partially by their own limitations, and also the limitations imposed upon them by the situations they're in. Questioner Is there anything universal about all of them? Brandon Sanderson They all have bits of them in all of the cosmere, so that's universal. They all are bounded more by themselves than by the power itself. Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018) Spoiler Questioner Nightblood has more Investiture than any other being, right? Brandon Sanderson Not every other being, but definitely one of the most highly Invested individuals that we have seen. Questioner So Nightblood, he was used to wound Odium. Is Odium now weaker than he was before? Brandon Sanderson Not in a relevant way. Technically, yes. Not in a relevant way. The amount taken, compared to how much there is, is pretty small. And a whole bunch of what happened there was focused on the Vessel, not on Odium itself. Questioner Could Nightblood consume Odium? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood would get full before consuming even the smallest fraction amount of Odium. As you saw, Nightblood kind of got full in that instance. Actually, it was with the perpendicularity, it would be similar to that. So for those who are wondering, no, you can't stab Nightblood into the planet and absorb the planet. Nightblood is really dangerous, as we've seen, but we're not talking "absorb planets" dangerous. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Spoiler Questioner Hypothetically could Nightblood Splinter a Shard? Brandon Sanderson Uh, Splintering a Shard takes more power than Nightblood has. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) Spoiler Questioner Assuming you have a way to siphon out a Vessel from a Shard, how much hemalurgic metal would be required to contain that Vessel? Brandon Sanderson An astronomically large amount. Oh, the Vessel? Or contain a Shard? The Vessel, just a little dude... not that much. Basically, like a decent-sized gemstone would hold an Unmade, and that's more Investiture than we're talking about. Questioner Can hemalurgic metal hold around the same amount of an Invested creature as a pure gemstone? Brandon Sanderson No, gemstones can do more. Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023) Spoiler Paladin Brewer Out of all the Shards, why does Odium go for Devotion and Dominion? Brandon Sanderson He targets people with two kinds of ideas. Number one, he can argue they're breaking the rules they set out. And two, people he thinks are a good match for him, or a challenge, or a danger. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Spoiler Questioner Did the shattering [Splintering] of Honor happen in the Cognitive Realm, and Ruin in the Physical? *Brandon laughs* The reason I'm wondering is, are spren the expression of the shattering in the Cognitive Realm while Ruin's physical being is an expression of the shattering in the Physical? Brandon Sanderson This is an interesting theory that I don't want to completely shoot down, but it is not heading in absolutely correct directions. The [Spintering] of a Shard is an event that transcends all three Realms. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) Spoiler Questioner Dalinar's visions are the memories of Honor, correct? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Yes, they are things specifically created by Honor... Questioner Does that mean that the Recreance happened before Honor's death... since Dalinar sees it? Brandon Sanderson Yes. But Honor's death, [spoliers removed[, is a protracted event. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Spoiler Questioner So, I was actually wondering whether Tanavast constructed the confrontation with Rayse in such a way that *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson That nailed his foot to the floor? Questioner He's stuck on Braize - at least for now. Brandon Sanderson Ah, yes. That was, in effect, that was an intentional - Questioner It was deliberate? Okay. Brandon Sanderson It was deliberate. Yup. Questioner *Inaudible, possibly 'Rayse'* started to win? Brandon Sanderson Um, well... Questioner I'll keep it secret until it shows up on Facebook. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it... so, Odium came at him, and he gave - not as good as he got - but he made it cost. Questioner Did he sacrifice himself, or is Odium better at that sort of thing? Brandon Sanderson I wouldn't say that he sacrificed himself, I'd say he went out swinging. Questioner Is Odium just better at that sort of thing? Brandon Sanderson I would say, yes. Oathbringer San Diego signing (Nov. 14, 2017) Edited November 24, 2024 by alder24 3
Mattel Posted November 24, 2024 Author Posted November 24, 2024 Ohh, okay, thank you both for those WoB's and answers! Yes, it is a fun theory, but sadly does not work. 1
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