Villains of M

[Stark he/him]

Just musing on a trend I have noticed.  Not omnipresent, as Torol Sadeas is an obvious exception, but there does seem to be a fair number of villains/antagonists whose names start with the letter 'M'.

 

Meridas Amaram

Mraize

Moash

Even Ba-Ado-Mishram is often shortened to simply Mishram.

Malata and Mrall get (dis)honorable mentions.

 

Again, its not omnipresent, nor exclusive.  But Amaram and Moash are major villains for Kaladin through the entire series.  Amaram for the first half, Moash for the second half.  Mraize for Shallan.  Mishram is integral now, seemingly, and is also key to Shallan's arc.

 

So what leads people with 'M' names to villainy?

[TwinStorm He/Him]

1 hour ago, Stark said:

Just musing on a trend I have noticed.  Not omnipresent, as Torol Sadeas is an obvious exception, but there does seem to be a fair number of villains/antagonists whose names start with the letter 'M'.

 

Meridas Amaram

Mraize

Moash

Even Ba-Ado-Mishram is often shortened to simply Mishram.

Malata and Mrall get (dis)honorable mentions.

 

Again, its not omnipresent, nor exclusive.  But Amaram and Moash are major villains for Kaladin through the entire series.  Amaram for the first half, Moash for the second half.  Mraize for Shallan.  Mishram is integral now, seemingly, and is also key to Shallan's arc.

 

So what leads people with 'M' names to villainy?

I think it's simply latin roots (mal- meaning evil) and tradition for villains to have names with M (Morgoth) that pervades the fantasy culture. I don't think it's something in world or anything.

[Stark he/him]

28 minutes ago, TwinStorm said:

I think it's simply latin roots (mal- meaning evil) and tradition for villains to have names with M (Morgoth) that pervades the fantasy culture. I don't think it's something in world or anything.

For sure.  Its just fun.  You see it in Wheel of time as well:

 

Moridin, Moghedien, Mazrim Taim.  Not all villains, but a larger percentage.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

1 minute ago, Stark said:

For sure.  Its just fun.  You see it in Wheel of time as well:

 

Moridin, Moghedien, Mazrim Taim.  Not all villains, but a larger percentage.

Have you finished the series? cause

WOT spoilers:

Spoiler

what do you mean not all villains? They're the most villainous villains out there!

 

[Stark he/him]

Punctuation issue.  Or too fast to reply.

 

Not all of the villains in the series have 'M' names.  Those were examples of villains who did.  Definitely categorize those three as villains.

[NH2316]

Wild tinfoil hat theory:  Hoid's real (original) name will start with M, when he's revealed as the true villain of the cosmere in the heel-turn to end all heel turns......Just kidding.

 

I think it's this -

2 hours ago, TwinStorm said:

I think it's simply latin roots (mal- meaning evil) and tradition for villains to have names with M (Morgoth) that pervades the fantasy culture. I don't think it's something in world or anything.

- along with the phenomena where writers in fantasy/sci-fi often subconsciously (or perhaps consciously) incorporate resonances with the works that influenced them, especially when it comes to aspects of the story that require them to invent something novel (e.g. naming a character or place, or inventing a magic system).  It's (maybe***) kind of like the trope where a disproportionate number of Black superheroes have powers related to lightning or electricity.  I'm not certain this occurred because there's a racist cabal of superhero writers out there who were all like "what if we all made black characters but gave them similar powersets", if only because it's not clear to me it's actually racism that Storm/Black Lightning/Mile Morales/Electro/Blue Marvel (and literally dozens of others....google it if you dont believe me) all have really cool if nevertheless somewhat thematically-similar superpowers.  More likely, it's a kind of subconscious bias for writers who are thinking up a new superhero to incorporate aspects of characters which they found influential.

 

I think the M thing is maybe a bit like that - it's implausible that there's any high-fantasy writer out there who didn't subconsciously consider Morgoth (the biggest villain of the most prototypical and archetypal work of that genre) when thinking "what should I name my villain"?

 

As an aside:  Nale leads the Stormbreakers.  And while Division is technically modeled after manipulation of the Strong Nuclear Force and not electromagnetism, it's closer than any other surge to a cosmere version of electric "shock and awe" powers (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ElectricBlackGuy).....just saying.

 

***I mean, I haven't ruled OUT that it's racism....I could absolutely be wrong.  it's just that there's so many more overtly racist tropes in that genre for BIPOC characters that it seems more like weird coincidence.  

Edited November 22, 2024 by NH2316

[AquaRegia he/him]

Reminds me of Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden series... there must be 20 important characters in there whose names start with M.

[Stark he/him]

Isn't Hoid's name, as known to the Heralds, Midius?

[NH2316]

To the heralds it's Midius, though to others (I think Frost, who presumably has known him longer than most anyone) it's Cephandrius (spelling?)....and other things to other people.  Hold is not his real name, since (can't remember where) Hoid mentions it's the name of a former mentor he feels like he failed.  

 

Quite possible the "true" name is cephandrius, since that's what characters before the Shattering know him as, though again I dont know.  With reference to a Hoid as "M-----" reveal, that was mostly a joke though  

 

I do kind of like the theory that Hoid is the ultimate villain of the whole cosmere, or at least "not-a-good-guy", and I think we've seen a lot of evidence hoid isn't purely noble....but that's a whole other discussion probably best for a different thread

23 minutes ago, Stark said:

Isn't Hoid's name, as known to the Heralds, Midius?

 

Edit: I'm stupid.....you were pointing out that "Midius" does in fact start with M rather than saying that was his "real name".  Nice catch haha....didn't even think of that

Edited November 22, 2024 by NH2316

[+Oltux72 he/him]

7 hours ago, Stark said:

So what leads people with 'M' names to villainy?

'Z' not being a part of the phonetic inventar of most Rosharan languages.

Otherwise Zorg, Zod, ...

[Isilel]

6 hours ago, Stark said:

For sure.  Its just fun.  You see it in Wheel of time as well:

 

Moridin, Moghedien, Mazrim Taim.  Not all villains, but a larger percentage.

 

There are many more "S" villains in WoT, though - Shai'tan, Sammael, Semiragh, Sevanna, Suroth, etc. 

[+robardin he/him]

Haha, I like that unconscious use of M- names to indicate being a bad guy, but I have the suspicion that it's a bit of selective memory at work.

Once you start counting out "villains whose name start with M in fantasy fiction", you sure can find a lot, but how does that compare with M- names that are neutral or "good" characters, or as a percentage of total characters you'd assign to those categories?

Also, I find that M-names are generally for the GOOD guys in Cosmere. Or at least, for Mistborn books (hmm, M-istborn, ...coincidence????)

Mare, Marsh (when not Ruined), MeLaan, Marasi... Feels like there were more even than that, too.

And then there's M-bot from the Skyward series! Can't have more of an M-name than that!