discuss [Discuss] Sazed drained the Bands of Mourning [FULL MISTBORN SPOILERS]

[Light In the Darkness]

So, in TLM, when the Bands of Mourning get brought out to the assembled nations, they are found to be empty. The question is, why? IIRC, Wax deliberately leaves charge in the metalminds when he uses them; he stops before they're drained. This leaves a couple of options; add to this as you will:

1. Sazed drained them or otherwise made them unusable. From TLM we know that his control/balance is slipping just a bit, with Ruin gaining an advantage in influencing his Intent due to the investiture from Preservation that went into making sapient individuals on Scadrial. We know from TWoA that Ruin had the power to change the investiture in metalminds, tweaking the memories stored there to prevent the prophecy from being read correctly. 

[Spoiler for SA]

Spoiler

We also see this happen with TOdium changing the memories that Wit has access to, tampering with his Breaths - a form of investitutre that he is not associated with. Which, by the way, means he might have lost memories that we don't yet know about.

So, if Sazed slipped in his control for a moment, he might have drained the Bands in a fit of Ruinous intent, deleting or tampering with the investiture so it wasn't usable anymore, e.g. adding identity to it or removing linchpin powers, like F!nicrosil. He could also have directed an experiment by the Kandra to expose them to heat or lightning, or something to that effect, which could have deleterious effects on the stored investiture, IIRC. This would have terrifying implications, but would also explain why he was also able to allow Wayne to become a Mistborn to prevent the bomb from blowing up; by allowing the one source of power to be destroyed, he was able to balance a more permanent reservoir to be created in Wax being a Mistborn now, letting him keep control of both halves of his power.

2. Sazed switched them out. In his growth towards being Discord, he may have had enough inclination to prevent the bands from being used to force a kandra to switch the real one for a fake, and then blank their memory or prevent their telling. He also had a weapon he could use to stop the bomb in wax, the unknowing Mistborn, and might have just seen the bands as unnecessary and orchestrated a switch before delivery by a kandra who thought he was being truthful.

3. A Ghostblood drained them. This could have been anyone; when Kelsier discovered his backup secret weapon/plan for future awesomeness had been discovered and used, it could easily be that he sent someone to neutralize it. All they would need is a vial of metals and something like fifteen seconds. Theoretically, someone should have noticed, but they are rather sneaky. It could even have been Kelsier himself; even if the powers wouldn't work for him, his intent to draw them out of existence might have been enough to do so, even with no effect. We also don't know how aluminum could have accelerated or made the process sneakier.

4. A Ghostblood swapped/stole them. This would make sense, especially if it was Kelsier himself. He would want to regain his weapon and store it somewhere else; Sazed might have even agreed, knowing his role in creating the weapon and being an old friend, and regretting how much tech he had accidentally slipped to the kandra he might have wanted to prevent them from having easy access to research into the topic of unsealed metalminds and the ability to have many Fullborn as weapons. Harmony would trust Kelsier to not give it to anyone else unless very necessary, and Kelsier would know how to restore their reservoirs, if he had someone he could trust with that.

5. Wax accidentally made them unusable. He might have drawn more than he thought, especially of a critical power, or his Identity may have accidentally locked the metalmind, especially if he attempted any compounding-storing without blanking his Identity before giving the bands up. Since it was Adawathwyn who touched the bands, she would only have been able to tell if the Zinc band was empty, if the Nicrosil bands had been drained or locked, since if they had been locked somehow she wouldn't have the power to tell if the others were as well. To my memory, no one else tried to use the bands either, which is a bit odd, and they didn't try to give them to Wax to try, since he was too far away, though interference from his Identity might have been why the bands seemed empty. Especially since he would be rather instinctive with his abilities as a crasher, he might have accidentally stored weight in the bands, or the instinct might have impelled him to store other things at the same time.

6. The kandra accidentally made them unusable. A dozen different experiments could have made the bands untappable or drained them, especially with the mechanism of their creation unknown.

Thoughts?

Edits/added options from Discussion:

From @JustQuestin2004

7. The Malwish delegates used an Allomantic Aluminum grenade. By Wob, it would create a deadzone where Allomancy would be inoperable - a dangerous thing in itself to future Scadiran tech. This may also feasibly have disabled Feruchemy in the area and made the bands appear to be empty when they weren't. This would also explain the scripted tone of voice used by the delegate on finding them empty, since he was causing it to happen, and explain his confidence in their scientists being able to tell if it was a fake/duplicate.

Edited October 31, 2024 by Light In the Darkness
New material from discussion added to topic for easy summary.

[Treamayne]

30 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

We know from TWoA that Ruin had the power to change the investiture in metalminds, tweaking the memories stored there to prevent the prophecy from being read correctly. 

I have not yet finished your post, but I will do so later when I have a moment. I just wanted to note that this is a false premise.

Ruin did not, and could not change a stored memory - Ruin changed memories while they were in transition (being stored or being tapped) but they had to be outside of the person and metalmind to be changed. WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

In the Well of Ascension, Kwaan says that Ruin changed the words in the Feruchemists' metalminds. Ruin can't *inaudible* metal plates. I was wondering what the difference was?

Brandon Sanderson

Because they're in the person's head before they're going in the plates. And he can affect the power as it's transcribed between. Because the power is partially him, the Power of Creation of that world. So there is a bit of him inside of every person, and as the power is going from person into plate... It's kind of like how people can hack your phone through your wifi. Does that make sense? So, that's what's going on there.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Hope that helps

[Light In the Darkness]

5 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I just wanted to note that this is a false premise.

Thank you, it does! However, most of the post still holds.To be fair, we also don't know what additional powers being Harmony has granted; Preservation had the power to hear the thoughts of Hemalurgic creatures, while Ruin had the power to speak to them. Some aspects of Feruchemy or Allomancy and Shardic ability over them might have been similarly divided pre-catacendre, though I doubt this ability is one of them. Granted, the Spoilered text might have an impact on the validity of this interpretation.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Light In the Darkness said:

Preservation had the power to hear the thoughts of Hemalurgic creatures

This is also not entirely correct. Preservation can hear the thoughts of all Scadrians, because they all have a piece of Preservation. Ruin can insert thoughts into those with cracks in their spirit web - which is mostly Hemalurgic Constructs, but also insanity (Vin's Mother), and non-Hemalurgic Spikes (Sazed, Rashek). 

M:SH P6C4:

Spoiler

Ruin asked. “Your power cannot leak through those cracks, Preservation. It tries too hard to shore them up, to protect them. Only I can widen cracks.”

Whether his reasoning was correct or not, Kelsier couldn’t tell. But he did confirm time and time again that madmen could no longer hear him.

However, now he could hear people.

Everyone, not just the mad. He could hear their thoughts like voices—their hopes, their worries, their terrors.

Sazed is just nice enough to avoid listening all the time, unless they wear the earring (which is his indication they want him to hear their prayers). 

1 hour ago, Light In the Darkness said:

Granted, the Spoilered text might have an impact on the validity of this interpretation.

What is happening there is related, but not the same. 

Spoiler

Odium was prohibited from harming/affecting people due to an Oath, unless that person somehow (wittingly or not) allowed themselves to be affected. That's why Odium could influence Dalinar (who had welcomed and sought the Thrill - Odium's power) and Moash (who invited Odium to strip his emotions). Hoid opened himself up to direct measures by interfereing and writing the Contract - and added protections in the Contract to keep himself safe, but he failed to account for the clause TOdium discovered, that allowed him to affect Hoid as long as the affect was not "harm."

So, basically Hoid accidentally invited the meddling with breath and memories - which is not-quite-the-same as Ruin who could mess with Feruchemy storing and tapping (invited or not) because it was partially of Ruin's investiture to begin with. 

Hope that helps

Edited October 31, 2024 by Treamayne
Examples

[Light In the Darkness]

5 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

 

Everyone, not just the mad. He could hear their thoughts like voices—their hopes, their worries, their terrors

Ah! Thanks for that. It's been a while since I read SH. That does make sense; the way Sazed remarks on it at or after his Ascension made it sound like it was restricted to Hemalurgy.

[Treamayne]

You may not have noticed my edit regarding your spoilered section above. Since I think you were typing while I fixed my post.

9 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

Ah! Thanks for that. It's been a while since I read SH. That does make sense; the way Sazed remarks on it at or after his Ascension made it sound like it was restricted to Hemalurgy.

Yeah, that's why I added:

15 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Sazed is just nice enough to avoid listening all the time, unless they wear the earring

He also left that out of the Words of Founding for the same reason - a Planet of Paranoid citizens wondering if Harmony is eavesdropping all-the-time would probably be a bad thing (TM).

* * * * *

None of the "Identity Lock" scenarios seem viable. We see early in the first book that the Metallic Arts can tell when something is Identity locked, and that did not happen in TLM - they felt no power at all. 

TFE Ch 29:

Spoiler

Sazed paused, then reached up to one of his oversized earlobes and undid an earring much like the one Vin wore. He handed the earring’s tiny backing, used to hold the earring in place, to Vin. “It is pure pewter, Mistress. I have stored a moderate amount of strength in it.”

Vin nodded, swallowing the tiny stud. She felt at her Allomantic reserve, but the stud’s metal didn’t seem to do anything different. She tentatively burned pewter.

“Anything?” Sazed asked.

Vin shook her head. “No, I don’t… ” She trailed off. There was something there, something different.

“What is it, Mistress?” Sazed asked, uncharacteristic eagerness sounding in his voice.

“I… can feel the power, Saze. It’s faint—far beyond my grasp—but I swear that there’s another reserve within me, one that only appears when I’m burning your metal.”

Sazed frowned. “It’s faint, you say? Like… you can see a shadow of the reserve, but can’t access the power itself?”

Vin nodded. “How do you know?”

“That’s what it feels like when you try to use another Feruchemist’s metals, Mistress,” Sazed said, sighing. “I should have suspected this would be the result. You cannot access the power because it does not belong to you.”

“Oh,” Vin said.

So confirmed that both Allomancy and Feuchemy can see Identity locked power but not access that power. 

Most Likely they were swapped. I would not be surprised if Sazed did it to avoid a scenario where either North or South used them against the other (even if swapping them causes its own problems/tensions). 

Edited October 31, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG/Further Feedback

[Light In the Darkness]

50 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

You may not have noticed my edit regarding your spoilered section above. Since I think you were typing while I fixed my post

SA Spoilers again

Spoiler

Yeah probably lol. Just read it, and that does make sense, but Kaladin didn't invite him to meddle either in RoW; it seems like perhaps Connection is all that is needed? The glowing golden eyes seemed to indicate quite a bit of his influence, including Investiture creation/transfer/granting/etc. Though he never acts to tamper with Stormlight or to simply sever Nahel Bonds from a distance, which does imply that his ability to meddle has preconditions. Still, TOdium does meddle with stored investiture, which is the main parallel of potential import in this scenario, since the investiture didn't need to be moving between places for him to tamper with it.

49 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

None of the "Identity Lock" scenarios seem viable. We see early in the first book that the Metallic Arts can tell when something is Identity locked, and that did not happen in TLM - they felt no power at all. 

 

So, not sure about this. When Vin sensed the locked energy, she was burning the metal - the precondition for compounding. She had a potential method of accessing that investiture, though she was without the invested art needed to use it, even if it weren't identity locked, which is a bit odd. We might want to ask for a WoB on if she would have been able to compound it if the metalmind was unkeyed. It's possible that someone like Kelsier might not even have been able to feel it due to the double obfuscation - Vin was a very pure-blooded and powerful Mistborn. In contrast, I don't think Wax could tell if the unkeyed goldmind he gave Wayne was invested or not, except via a very weak steelpush line, for the same reason: It was both invested-art-locked and Identity-locked. So, if Adawathwyn was only a Sparker and the Nicrosil were gone or Identity-locked, she might not have been able to sense the other reservoirs - we don't have enough data on Ferrings to know. With Mistings though, if they can't burn the metal, they can't sense the reservoir, so it might be similar with Ferrings.

That said, the situation is unlikely - She would know if the Zincmind had any power in it, and it probably would if any of the others did - I doubt Wax was burning through Zinc, of all things, faster than the others, and managed to accidentally identity-lock the Nicrosil. So you probably are right that a swap is more likely, whether ferrings can tell if something is a metalmind whose power they couldn't use or not.

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

So, not sure about this. When Vin sensed the locked energy, she was burning the metal - the precondition for compounding. She had a potential method of accessing that investiture, though she was without the invested art needed to use it, even if it weren't identity locked, which is a bit odd. We might want to ask for a WoB on if she would have been able to compound it if the metalmind was unkeyed.

We have that WoB (even if it is not Vin specific):

Spoiler

Kurkistan

Could an Augur Compound Health out of a goldmind if its proper owner messed with Identity in the right way?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible

General Signed Books 2014 (Jan. 22, 2014)

 

7 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

In contrast, I don't think Wax could tell if the unkeyed goldmind he gave Wayne was invested or not, except via a very weak steelpush line

That's because he would not have otherwise been able to access the power - but the bands are all about giving the holder access to the power stored in the bands. 

Similarly, Wayne cannot sense Wax's Iron Storage, because he has no access to F-Iron. But he could tell if Miles had stored health in Gold, even if he could not access it. 

3 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

SA Spoilers again

That's why (Stormlight Spoilers)

Spoiler

ROdium had to work through Moash to get to Kaladin, and still couldn't do anything but send visions while he was asleep. While we don't have a full explaination, it does seem that the time spent experiencing Braize in-vision did affect Kaladin - seen

when his eyes flashed golden. WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

Kaladin's fight with the [Pursuer], his eyes are described glowing a color not quite the same as usual for corrupted Investiture. Is this supposed to be that he's burning a different Light?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it’s more he's on the border of some dangerous stuff.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

Hope that helps

[Light In the Darkness]

16 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

That's because he would not have otherwise been able to access the power - but the bands are all about giving the holder access to the power stored in the bands. 

Exactly! If the Nicrosilminds got Identity-locked, they would stop giving the holder the ability to sense the powers in the ones not associated with the powers they already have - the Zincmind.

47 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

We have that WoB

Also, this is very interesting. It means that compounding is Allomantic in nature, fundamentally, which makes sense - it’s well established that essentially you hack Allomancy into giving you the Feruchemical attribute instead. But the fact that you don’t need the associated Feruchemy  to access it is interesting and constraining; it means you can’t re-store the resulting energy, which is a hard limit on long-term compounding, but still a very powerful short burst. I’m really curious about how the inverse works - it would need to be fundamentally Feruchemical, but Allomancy’s investiture is never stored like Feruchemy’s, so I wonder how the hack would work (since we know it exists). Sorry for the sidetrack.

SA:

Spoiler

Interesting connection there, that ROdium had to work through Moash - I forgot about that. I think the main impact of the visions was mostly in making him despair, though, and the desperation of the Pursuer trying to kill his dad combined with that to drive a strong passion in him, increasing his connection to Odium to the point of investiture being available, since passion is what seems to do that. And his resignation to suicide instead, rejection of the power and connection, implies that the decision to let Odium in wasn’t fully conscious, though perhaps in the moment it was willing. All to say that the nuance of the visions causing connection I think is finer-grained; the visions built his passion, which is what made the connection, IMO.

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Odium was prohibited from harming/affecting people due to an Oath

But this I think is the bit really under discussion. If Odium weren’t under Oath, could he meddle with any static investiture the way he did to Hoid? Or is there protection by default? If not, what stops Ruin from meddling with it in the metalmind too? Is it his nature as a force of entropy and motion, as opposed to Preservation’s power of cessation and stability? If that’s it, then Preservation might be able to meddle with it but unable, since his nature was to keep things the same/preserve them. But then Harmony should have the ability to do it, and since it would be Preservation’s power acting to preserve something by destroying something else, I think he would be able to mentally - the sides would be in balance. Is it the nature of the storage device being metal? Would that have stopped Odium too? Or is it just a blindness/weakness of the Scadrian shards? Would two other shards have the same weakness due to the nature of the Shattering? (Four dawnshards split him into four and four again)

 

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

Spoiler

could he meddle with any static investiture the way he did to Hoid? Or is there protection by default? If not, what stops Ruin from meddling with it in the metalmind too?

 

Perhaps we should ask for this thread to move to Cosmere Discussion? Anyway (Stormlight and Warbreaker Spoilers):

Spoiler

It's only partially about Static vs Kinetic investiture, it's also because Breaths are a Physical Realm investiture (as seen in the Breath Aura - but not Divine Breath, which is SR) whereas MetalMinds store in the Spiritual Realm, so the investiture is only in the Cognitive/Physical while being tapped or stored (while Kinetic). 

In the end, there are too many unknowns for any certaintly, only partially informed deduction from a currently limited pool of examples. 

 

[Light In the Darkness]

21 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Perhaps we should ask for this thread to move to Cosmere Discussion? Anyway (Stormlight and Warbreaker Spoilers):

 

Fair point there, and good points in the spoiler lol. I agree that we probably should lay it down here though; it might be worth a thread in Cosmere instead, maybe as part of a larger static-kinetic discussion? We should probably at least let this one get back on topic though lol.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Just gonna throw this possibility out here cause why not, I think that the Malwish Admiral Daal used an Allomantic Grenade charged with Allomantic Aluminum. There is a WOB that goes into what Duralumin and Aluminum do with Harmonium. A-Aluminum Grenades set up an 'Allomantic Deadzone' where you simply cannot use Allomancy at all. Presumebly you cannot use Feruchemy as well. So I'm willing to bet that Daal had one of those in his pocket and switched it on when the Bands were brought out, making everyone in that room incapable of using them, making everyone think that they were drained, when they weren't.

That's why he had a 'scripted' tone of voice and wasn't too surprised by it, he was causing it in the first place.

But that's just a theory.

 

[Sophrosyne He/any]

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

But that's just a theory.

A SHARD THEORY!

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I think that the Malwish Admiral Daal used an Allomantic Grenade

This is a pretty good Idea. To the best of my knowledge there's no visible effect to those grenades so if you weren't actively using a power, you'd have no way of catching it. I'dd want to reread the scene cause that feels like a good enough catch it might just be what happened.

[Light In the Darkness]

Nice One! I'll add it to the topic posting.

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I think that the Malwish Admiral Daal used an Allomantic Grenade charged with Allomantic Aluminum

 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

10 hours ago, Light In the Darkness said:

and explain his confidence in their scientists being able to tell if it was a fake/duplicate.

Oh yeah, that's right. Well, I think that's enough evidence to make me certain in it because how exactly would the Malwish be able to tell if it's the real thing if they've never even seen it? Especially since by the logic of it being 'drained' and no longer having any power, it should just be a piece of metal with no Investiture to scan for. Metalminds aren't Metalminds if they're completely drained of all attribute after all.

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Light In the Darkness said:

5. Wax accidentally made them unusable. He might have drawn more than he thought, especially of a critical power, or his Identity may have accidentally locked the metalmind, especially if he attempted any compounding-storing without blanking his Identity before giving the bands up. Since it was Adawathwyn who touched the bands, she would only have been able to tell if the Zinc band was empty, if the Nicrosil bands had been drained or locked, since if they had been locked somehow she wouldn't have the power to tell if the others were as well. To my memory, no one else tried to use the bands either, which is a bit odd, and they didn't try to give them to Wax to try, since he was too far away, though interference from his Identity might have been why the bands seemed empty. Especially since he would be rather instinctive with his abilities as a crasher, he might have accidentally stored weight in the bands, or the instinct might have impelled him to store other things at the same time.

That's not how it works. Marasi used the Band, nearly draining the speed out of them and yet Wax could use them without a problem. Malwish medallions are used by multiple people and yet there are no problems, nothing gets locked. Wax didn't drain any attribute to nothing, there was still something left, many were probably untouched by both Wax and Marasi (like heat, energy, breath and stuff like that). Moreover, Feruchemical powers stored in the Bands are most likely stored like memories in the Coppermind - it's like an on/off switch when you have the Bands. It's also the Bands that gave those powers because it's a little machine that's alive, just like typical unsealed metalminds. It probably would be impossible to drain them without the proper knowledge and intent. Everyone in that room tried to use the Bands, Steris and TenSoon included, all couldn't sense anything. Wax couldn't have done anything to Identity lock them. TLM ch 48:

Quote

“How…” she said. “How do I activate them?”
“It was natural for Wax,” Steris said, walking over. She hesitantly poked the Bands, and felt nothing.
They passed them around, letting everyone try. Finally TenSoon took them, his face scrunched up in thought. Then horror followed. “They’re drained,” he whispered. “Something has happened … How…?”

 

Spoiler

Oversleep (paraphrased)

I asked whether we could call the Bands of Mourning the Survivor's Spearhead and whether it did have all 16 basic metal metalminds.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He hesitated a little but eventually said yes, there were all 16 metalminds.

Oversleep (paraphrased)

I asked whether Marasi tapped all of them, because she would tap Kelsier's Identity and memories.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said intentions are important and she didn't tap all of them.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

SA spoiler WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

Do Honorblades bestow their abilities similar to an Identity-free nicrosilmind with other Metalborn abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, these are working on similar principles. Same principle, divergent applications by the magic system, but yeah, I would say, they come back to the same principles.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

 

[AleStaar he/him]

Just going to throw this out there. I'm 100% on board with the possibility of Sazed draining the Bands of Mourning. Though I'm personally not on board with theories that empathsize "Ruinous Intent." Though that's just because I think Preservative Intent is much more nuanced than the trilogy presented, of which I think draining the Bands might fulfill. And I think it just might fulfill both sides of Sazed's Intent. 

 

[Light In the Darkness]

On 11/3/2024 at 3:31 PM, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Though I'm personally not on board with theories that empathsize "Ruinous Intent." Though that's just because I think Preservative Intent is much more nuanced than the trilogy presented, of which I think draining the Bands might fulfill. And I think it just might fulfill both sides of Sazed's Intent. 

That's fair! There is likely a lot more nuance to it than what I originally put forth, especially considering the amount of damage the Bands could do in the wrong hands.

[Isilel]

Personally, I don't believe that the Bands were completely drained - and therefore destroyed. It would be an incredibly odd and unsatisfying writing decision, considering all the mysteries surrounding them. Which would become obsolete if they are now just gone.

There is so much weirdness surrounding the whole issue - like, how had the priests even built the mountain temple? Wouldn't they have needed lots of supplies and building materials over a period of years, how could it have been kept secret? Not to mention that building in the permanent snow is generally quite hard and they would have needed their medallions constantly re-charged during that time.

Then there is the fact that _somebody_ spread the rumors about them both in the North and in the South over a long period of time. For what reason?

And then, there is the fact that Kelsier is somehow duping the Ghostbloods into believing that he still has allomancy... which should have been impossible if he just never employed anything that appeared like it. He has to fake an occasional use from time to time.

My theory is that 2 copies of the Bands were created - one that Kelsier actively used and a safety copy. Which would explain a somewhat unwiedly form of the Bands  we know - they are just a backup/powerbank.

Then something happened and for some reason the secondary copy was removed from Kelsier's reach. Maybe Harmony demanded it, maybe there was some kind of betrayal by the priesthood, etc. Since then, Kelsier was forced to use the one he has very judiciously, and by now it is out of several powers, including Steelpushing, as per TLM.

IMHO, the admiral is a Ghostblood and suppressed (but not irrevocably drained) the Bands somehow, or the Ghostbloods managed to swipe them shortly before the attempt to use them.

 

Edited November 10, 2024 by Isilel

[Light In the Darkness]

Solid idea.