Do you guys think that there will be a natural mistborn in the future,not someone using medallionn.

[Trusk'our he/him]

21 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Nah, I'm a Warbreaker fan in the frst place.

Ooh, new lore on @alder24! 

Didn't know Warbreaker was your favorite, I always pinned you as a Mistborn kind of person. 

[AleStaar he/him]

@alder24 I’m watching a movie so I can’t make a detailed reply. I’ll just say I think you, and Mistborn fans in general, overhype what Past Leras forsaw and underhype what Present Leras accomplished.

I think part of the plan required Past Leras to trust Present Leras into overseeing the present, actively seeing the future, and remembering the past as much as it could. Past Leras foresaw certain distant outcomes that he desired, and set tools and clues in motion. However, Present Leras was the one who needed to foresee which people are needed to make the plan work.

Neither Past or Present Leras predict the future perfectly, but they both trust specific people to do the right thing. We shouldn’t underhype nor overhype them. Nor should we say Kelsier was some happy accident that Present Leras didn’t foresee relevant, plan-important futures for.

 

[alder24]

15 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Ooh, new lore on @alder24! 

Didn't know Warbreaker was your favorite, I always pinned you as a Mistborn kind of person. 

New? I cannot count how many times did I said I adore Warbreaker the most 

 

14 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I’ll just say I think you, and Mistborn fans in general, overhype what Past Leras forsaw and underhype what Present Leras accomplished.

I think part of the plan required Past Leras to trust Present Leras into overseeing the present, actively seeing the future, and remembering the past as much as it could. Past Leras foresaw certain distant outcomes that he desired, and set tools and clues in motion. However, Present Leras was the one who needed to foresee which people are needed to make the plan work.

Neither Past or Present Leras predict the future perfectly, but they both trust specific people to do the right thing. We shouldn’t underhype nor overhype them.

I actually agree with you. I'm not overhyping past Lares, I think his predictions were more general rather than specific. I don't think Sazed was the Chosen One, foreseen by Leras from the very beginning as the one and only who will merge two Shards. I think he saw there would be people on the path to Ascend to both Ruin and Preservation, not one person but many throughout centuries, but they would need a little push to put them on the correct path at the right time. That was the purpose of Terris' prophecies, the sign of 16 and other clues, to assist those people when the time was right and guide them towards this unlikely chance. Sazed was one of those people.

Leras set up his plan to be activated the moment Ruin was released from his prison, whenever it happened. It could happen during Rashek's times, it could happen earlier, but Preservation's plan ensured there always would be someone who could defeat Ruin and combine both Shard - however their success rested entirely on choices they would make, but Preservation gave them all necessary tools. And yes, present Leras was an important part of past Leras's plan.

Did I explain it well? I think it’s a bit messy.

14 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Nor should we say Kelsier was some happy accident that Present Leras didn’t foresee relevant, plan-important futures for.

But Leras didn't foresee how important Kelsier was. He didn't even foresee that Kelsier would let himself be killed by the Lord Ruler. But just because Leras didn't know Kelsier's role in his plan, it doesn't mean that when he pushed Kel into the Well, he didn't see it would be beneficial to Preservation, without knowing why - he most likely did see that. The same would apply to other situations. Leras was reacting to what was happening, seeing into the future to find out which choices he could make in that moment would be beneficial and in most cases he didn't know why they were good for him. SH ch 1-1:

Quote

“Oh!” Fuzz said. “Yes. You let him kill you. I had not expected that.”
“You’re God. Can’t you see the future?”
“To an extent,” Fuzz said, animated. “But it is cloudy, so cloudy. Too many possibilities. I did not see this among them, though it was probably there. You must tell me. Why did you let him kill you? At the end, you just stood there.”

[AleStaar he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

I actually agree with you. I'm not overhyping past Lares, I think his predictions were more general rather than specific. I don't think Sazed was the Chosen One, foreseen by Leras from the very beginning as the one and only who will merge two Shards. I think he saw there would be people on the path to Ascend to both Ruin and Preservation, not one person but many throughout centuries, but they would need a little push to put them on the correct path at the right time. That was the purpose of Terris' prophecies, the sign of 16 and other clues, to assist those people when the time was right and guide them towards this unlikely chance. Sazed was one of those people.

Leras set up his plan to be activated the moment Ruin was released from his prison, whenever it happened. It could happen during Rashek's times, it could happen earlier, but Preservation's plan ensured there always would be someone who could defeat Ruin and combine both Shard - however their success rested entirely on choices they would make, but Preservation gave them all necessary tools. And yes, present Leras was an important part of past Leras's plan.

Did I explain it well? I think it’s a bit messy.

You explained it well, and it is a bit messy, and I agree Past Leras’ predictions were general rather than specific. However, too many alarm bells and weird things about Scadrial’s history point me towards the direction of “Past and Present Leras played the long game.” 

I think some WoBs sum up the idea behind the Prophecies best. 

Quote

Chaos

How were the Terris Prophecies created in the first place? Every other magic related thing is quite logically explained in terms of Ruin and Preservation, except that one.

Brandon Sanderson

The Terris prophecies were created by Preservation before he attempted his imprisonment. He knew that he wouldn't be able to do much for the world after he did what he did, and he foresaw a LOT of what was to come.

 

Quote

JamesW

You said that Preservation created the Terris Prophecies. Why couldn't Ruin see into the future and counter Preservation's plan? Is it because Ruin's intent has him focusing more on the present than the future, while Preservation (wanting to preserve forever) looks more into the future for that goal.

Brandon Sanderson

Looking into the future was not something Ruin was good at doing. That ability is confined to certain shards, and not others.

 

Quote

defiantburrito

The Hero of Ages prophecy: For a while it seemed to me that the prophecy was entirely bogus (invented by Ruin as a lure), but it ended up coming true! So my question is, where did the prophecy actually come from? Was it Atium in some form, or something else entirely?

Brandon Sanderson

The religions of Scadrial had a lot of ups and downs. First, you have Ruin and Preservation working together as two gods. Then you have the schism between them, and Preservation betraying Ruin, with Preservation adapting the religion to his own needs and trying to hide in it practices that will keep Ruin imprisoned as long as possible, and then give a chance to defeat him when he escapes. (As Preservation assumes he'll be dead by then.) Finally, you have Ruin corrupting the religions with his influence, trying to figure out what he can twist to his own needs--while missing the hidden layers that Preservation left.

Phantine

Were there a lot of Hero of Ages who ascended beyond the ones we directly saw in the books?

Brandon Sanderson

I wouldn't say so.

Yes, the people who Ascended at the Well of Ascension were important. Yes, there were other “Heroes of Ages.”

And yes, Leras knew Ruin would eventually break out of his prison, and that the Well would only delay him.

However, that was never Leras’ plan. Especially when you consider that one of his ancient predictions was that people could eventually burn away Ruin’s body, so it involves people fundamentally knowing about Allomancy and atium. Then there’s the implication that one of his other ancient predictions was that someone else could take up Preservation, then sacrifice their life to kill Ruin. 

They’re general predictions with low probability, but they’re still part of a long game. The Terris Prophecies weren’t just about taking advantage of Ruin’s inability to see “wide” into the future. They also took advantage of Ruin’s inability to see far into the future.

The Hero of Ages isn’t a person whose likelihood could appear once in the ages, potentially appearing in each age. It’s a person whose likelihood would span the ages. It’s not a person who could appear every 1000 years potentially taking up the Well’s power then both Shards, or potentially knowing the Well’s user then taking up both Shards. It’s a person who could appear after thousands of years.

He made the prophecies, set up the sign of 16, and set up the Pits because he foresaw thousands of years into the future - seeing potential events that might occur not in centuries, not per millennium, but in millennia. 

Just look at what being the Hero required. He didn’t just need someone to take up both Shards: he needed someone whose personality and goals Connected to both Shards. Alendi, Rashek, Kwaan, and Vin were too Connected to Preservation to be the Hero. And he needed someone who could bear the future of the entire world on their arms. Vin and Alendi didn’t do it, Rashek didn’t until he started using atium bracers, and it’s ambiguous with Kwaan.

I agree he didn’t know Sazed specifically would be the Hero. But he knew the Hero wouldn’t appear for several thousand years. This is why Present Leras had to hide gems and hints of all the world’s religions for the Hero to find. Not for the urchin, or the son of a blacksmith who became the king, or the Worldbringer who studied nature, or the selfish xenophobe who became a tyrant. But for the Feruchemist who might study religions, and who might respect BOTH stability and the need to decay the stagnant.

Present Leras arranged for the Well’s users to be steps towards the Hero of Ages.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[alder24]

54 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

The Hero of Ages isn’t a person whose likelihood could appear once in the ages, potentially appearing in each age. It’s a person whose likelihood would span the ages. It’s not a person who could appear every 1000 years potentially taking up the Well’s power then both Shards, or potentially knowing the Well’s user then taking up both Shards. It’s a person who could appear after thousands of years.

He made the prophecies, set up the sign of 16, and set up the Pits because he foresaw thousands of years into the future - seeing potential events that might occur not in centuries, not per millennium, but in millennia. 

Just to clarify, "centuries" was a bad stylistic choice, I didn't mean it literally. Well, 10 millennia is still 100 centuries, so... Anyway, Leras definitely played a very long game, definitely knew Ruin would be trapped for a while, definitely knew prophecies will be tampered with and religions are important etc. 

57 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Just look at what being the Hero required. He didn’t just need someone to take up both Shards: he needed someone whose personality and goals Connected to both Shards. Alendi, Rashek, Kwaan, and Vin were too Connected to Preservation to be the Hero. And he needed someone who could bear the future of the entire world on their arms. Vin and Alendi didn’t do it, Rashek didn’t until he started using atium bracers, and it’s ambiguous with Kwaan.

That's why I said there would be people out there with the potential to pick up both Shards, not ready to do it. Look at Sazed again, look at him in TFE. At the beginning of the story he was not suitable for this role in the slightest. Throughout the following years he learned to become a rebel, a friend, an advisor, an administrator, a holy man, a leader, a warrior, he faced grief and lost all his faith, he studied all religions in hope of recovering his faith and eventually he started to believe in one faith once more. It was a long journey full of extremes, he nearly lost his life on so many occasions, or faced impossible choices. He had the potential and thanks to Preservation's planning this potential was cultivated in the right time, allowing him to grow and become a person who could hold two Shards. 

I believe other people like him appeared in previous centuries, people with potential, who either made wrong choices, or their potential wasn't fully explored because Ruin wasn't released. In other words, Preservation made sure that no matter what Ruin did and when Ruin got free, there would always be a person who had a potential to defeat him and he would receive needed push to put him on the path to Ascension - whether or not they would succeed, depended on their choices, but he left them hints so they could make right choices. 

[AleStaar he/him]

54 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's why I said there would be people out there with the potential to pick up both Shards, not ready to do it. Look at Sazed again, look at him in TFE. At the beginning of the story he was not suitable for this role in the slightest. Throughout the following years he learned to become a rebel, a friend, an advisor, an administrator, a holy man, a leader, a warrior, he faced grief and lost all his faith, he studied all religions in hope of recovering his faith and eventually he started to believe in one faith once more. It was a long journey full of extremes, he nearly lost his life on so many occasions, or faced impossible choices. He had the potential and thanks to Preservation's planning this potential was cultivated in the right time, allowing him to grow and become a person who could hold two Shards. 

By the time of TFE, he already rebelled against the Terris people. Before he met Mare, and subsequently Kelsier's crew, he was already out to overthrow the Final Empire. He just wasn't as ambitious or competent as Kelsier. He already lost friends like Jadendwyl and Crenda. He was already Connected to both Preservation and Ruin.

He was frustrated with the Terris people's isolation and unwillingness to rebel against the empire openly. And yet, he understood why his people had this mindset. And yet, he understood the world needed to change for the sake of the Terris people's stability and safety. This was his Connection to Preservation that represented an overlooked aspect of the Shard - understanding why people want to stay stagnant and safe, and yet understanding that change must occur to achieve stability and safety. 

But he also knew that the Terris people weren't sustainable under the Final Empire's tyranny, so he sought to overthrow it. That was his Connection to Ruin - knowing that something must be completely removed. Coming to terms with Tindwyl's death grew the Connection, but it was there long before. 

His experiences during and after TFE cultivated his potential to be Connected and hold both Shards. But those Connections were already there by the time of TFE, cultivated by Sazed himself as he interacted with the Terris. 

Edited October 27, 2024 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

He was already Connected to both Preservation and Ruin.
[...]
His experiences during and after TFE cultivated his potential to be Connected and hold both Shards. But those Connections were already there by the time of TFE, cultivated by Sazed himself as he interacted with the Terris. 

Yes, that's the potential I was talking about. But those Connections alone weren't enough, they had to be equal, he had to understand Ruin on a much deeper level than just destruction that's needed. As Sazed was at the end of TFE, he was incapable of holding both Shards simultaneously. SH ch 6-8:

Quote

He’d always seen these powers as opposites, yet as they swirled around Sazed it seemed that they actually belonged to one another. “How?” he whispered. “How is he Connected to them both, so evenly? Why not just Preservation?”
“He has changed, this last year,” Elend said. “Ruin is more than death and destruction. It is peace with these things.”

 

[AleStaar he/him]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

I believe other people like him appeared in previous centuries, people with potential, who either made wrong choices, or their potential wasn't fully explored because Ruin wasn't released. In other words, Preservation made sure that no matter what Ruin did and when Ruin got free, there would always be a person who had a potential to defeat him and he would receive needed push to put him on the path to Ascension - whether or not they would succeed, depended on their choices, but he left them hints so they could make right choices. 

You do know the Plan wasn’t just about someone taking both Shards, right? That was the ultimate outcome, but it required a lot of steps to get there.

He also needed a successor to take up only Preservation, who could sacrifice their life to kill Ruin. He also needed an army of atium Mistings who could burn away all of Ruin’s body, leaving a brief moment for the successor to suicide-kill Ruin.

This is when you really need to question gaps in Scadrian history.

- Why did no one know about Allomancy prior to Rashek’s Ascension and gifting of lerasium?

- Why did the Mists appear for a thousand years only after Rashek’s Ascension?

- Why did no one know about the atium produced at the Pits of Hathsin? Or at least, why did no one know and use their true nature?

 

This really shouldn’t be a difficult thread to follow. Even if you want to assume that Present Leras was as incompetent as SH Fuzz for several thousand years, there is absolutely no question that he was actively facilitating the plan. Even if he didn’t remember the plan. You also need to remember we have no frame of reference to assume Present Leras was completely unaware of the plan during the millennia before Secret History.

You either have to accept that or propose that Past Leras foresaw the predestined web of several thousand years of time, knew the exact names and natures of his future pawns, and exactly when his steps need to executed.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? Because that’s not what happened. Just like Present Leras wasn’t floating around doing nothing for several thousand years.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

You do know the Plan wasn’t just about someone taking both Shards, right? That was the ultimate outcome, but it required a lot of steps to get there.

He also needed a successor to take up only Preservation, who could sacrifice their life to kill Ruin. He also needed an army of atium Mistings who could burn away all of Ruin’s body, leaving a brief moment for the successor to suicide-kill Ruin.

Ehh, you're really missing my point here. The plan was a general one, accounting for all of this whenever it would happen. Yes, there would be a person who would take up Preservation and kill Ruin (probably the same person as the one chosen to pick up the power of the Well). Yes, there would be clues prepared for people about Allomancy and Atium. Yes, there would be an army of electrum Mistings who would burn Atium away. All of those things and others are included and planned for, but not to specific individuals. The part you're missing is that the success of Leras' plan relied only on choices people made. If people back then, or even during Era 2 made wrong choices and didn't realize what Allomancy or Atium is, they would not defeat Ruin. Leras only hoped what he left them would be enough to help defeat Ruin, but they would need to make those connections themselves. The success of Leras' plan was never guaranteed, but it could have been executed before or after Vin's times as there were people with the potential to do what was required.

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

- Why did no one know about Allomancy prior to Rashek’s Ascension and gifting of lerasium?

But Allomancy existed, Alendi was using it unknowingly, people were being Snapped by Mists and electrum Mistings were being created - tools were given to them by Leras.

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

- Why did the Mists appear for a thousand years only after Rashek’s Ascension?

They appeared earlier too. Alendi kept talking about the Deepness - the Mists. They existed before they started to Snap people. They were left there by Preservation to do just that - Snap people and give them weapons in form of Allomantic abilities. 

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

- Why did no one know about the atium produced at the Pits of Hathsin? Or at least, why did no one know and use their true nature?

Well, we know where Ruin's perpendicularity was back then - at the North pole, high in the Terris mountain, near the Well, far away from anyone. That's where Atium was and that’s why nobody knew about it. It’s very likely some of the Worldbringers knew about it too from their religious teachings, as the First Generation of Kandra were fully aware of what Atium was, the whole deal between Preservation and Ruin etc. 

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Even if you want to assume that Present Leras was as incompetent as SH Fuzz for several thousand years,

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Just like Present Leras wasn’t floating around doing nothing for several thousand years.

I've never said that. I said the opposite, I said it was a slow decline. I said he was a big part in past Leras' plan. But just because present Leras didn't remember what the plan was and didn't know how important Kelsier was, doesn't mean past Leras didn't know present Leras would make right choices to assist people and push them towards the right path. 

11 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

You also need to remember we have no frame of reference to assume Present Leras was completely unaware of the plan during the millennia before Secret History.

That wasn't present Leras then, that was Leras from 1024 years ago and his state was different from the state of present, Era 1 Leras. He probably still didn't remember what the plan was, but was in much better shape and could do much more than Leras during Era 1. Even Sazed said in HoA epigraphs that in the past, Leras was powerful enough to force inquisitors away with a simple gesture. I repeat again, it was a slow decline happening over thousands of years. 

Leras was active during all those times, he was doing what he could to prepare people to fight against Ruin. He was preparing Vin to be the Hero from birth, he was preparing Alendi as well, he acted when it was obvious Alendi was going to free Ruin and thanks to him Rashek was put into a position where he could take his place. Leras was an active participant throughout all of this. He might have forgotten what the full plan was, his future sight might have been unable to reach that far, but he was using it and making the best choices possible, even if he might have not fully known why they were needed.

[AleStaar he/him]

On 10/28/2024 at 10:51 AM, alder24 said:

But Allomancy existed, Alendi was using it unknowingly, people were being Snapped by Mists and electrum Mistings were being created - tools were given to them by Leras.

You know what I meant. Before Rashek came around and properly introduced Allomancy, Scadrial's knowledge of Allomancy wasn't close to what Preservation's plan required. You said it yourself. Alendi and other people were limited to using Allomancy unknowingly. The plan doesn't work if people are limited to unaware Allomancy. The plan NEEDS a lot of people who use Allomancy knowingly, know the power of Allomantic atium, desire to burn all the valuable atium at the Pits, and catch on to the sign of 16 which hints at Allomancy. None of those applied to humanity specifically until Rashek (and Elend much later) came along.

Maybe I'm overthinking but when you consider that the Pits of Hathsin, Snapping Mists, and knowledge from the Well existed for several thousand years... it really makes me question exactly why Allomancy wasn't a fundamental part of society until Rashek. 

On 10/28/2024 at 10:51 AM, alder24 said:

They appeared earlier too. Alendi kept talking about the Deepness - the Mists. They existed before they started to Snap people. They were left there by Preservation to do just that - Snap people and give them weapons in form of Allomantic abilities. 

Again, you know what I mean. I understand that preserving true history is a frail endeavor, especially in the empire's circumstances. But I think even the Keepers would've had some insight if it turned out Mists were always a part of Scadrial that existed for several thousand years. Or maybe Alendi would've mentioned nightime Mists apart from the Deepness, in his logbook. Instead, for millennia the Mists appeared only when the Well was nearly full. And yet, the Mists appear every night only after Rashek Ascended.

On 10/28/2024 at 10:51 AM, alder24 said:

Well, we know where Ruin's perpendicularity was back then - at the North pole, high in the Terris mountain, near the Well, far away from anyone. That's where Atium was and that’s why nobody knew about it. It’s very likely some of the Worldbringers knew about it too from their religious teachings, as the First Generation of Kandra were fully aware of what Atium was, the whole deal between Preservation and Ruin etc. 

Nothing we know about the Worldbringers indicates they knew about atium or used it to delay aging. The First Generation knew about atium and the deal because the Well gifted that knowledge to Rashek, who spread it to the Firsts.

Furthermore, Ruin's perpendicularity is not the Pits of Hathsin. The Pits of Hathsin were specifically crafted by Preservation during the imprisonment and betrayal, several thousand years ago, designed for the grand outcome of aware Allomancers burning away all of Ruin's body. I do think A perpendicularity existed near the Well. But not the Pits or THE perpendicularity. Nothing in the story or lore indicates millennia of unaware Allomancers, or some time of Feruchemists, knew of the true magical value of atium. Like I said, that seems very suspicious to me.

To save myself the headache, I assume Ruin had two perpendicularities, both unwillingly created courtesy of Preservation's restraints. A perpendicularity in the Well, courtesy of the imprisonment. And one in the Pits of Hathsin, courtesy of the unnatural amount of God Metal. Or perhaps three, assuming he willingly placed a perpendicularity somewhere. 

 

I'm not trying to destroy your viewpoint. But I think you're missing all the signs of Leras having a combination of a general plan and precise plan. It was general, because he didn't know exactly how the atium-burning Mistings, the successor, or Hero of Ages would be fulfilled. It was general, because he set things in motion before the imprisonment. But it was precise, because he was actively facilitating phases of the plan throughout history.

 

Edited November 8, 2024 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

You know what I meant. Before Rashek came around and properly introduced Allomancy, Scadrial's knowledge of Allomancy wasn't close to what Preservation's plan required. You said it yourself. Alendi and other people were limited to using Allomancy unknowingly. The plan doesn't work if people are limited to unaware Allomancy. The plan NEEDS a lot of people who use Allomancy knowingly, know the power of Allomantic atium, desire to burn all the valuable atium at the Pits, and catch on to the sign of 16 which hints at Allomancy. None of those applied to humanity specifically until Rashek (and Elend much later) came along.

Maybe I'm overthinking but when you consider that the Pits of Hathsin, Snapping Mists, and knowledge from the Well existed for several thousand years... it really makes me question exactly why Allomancy wasn't a fundamental part of society until Rashek. 

I disagree. In my opinion for Preservation's general plan it was enough that Allomancy existed. People could have realized what Allomancy was and that it could be used to burn Atium, but they needed to work on this on their own, make the right choices. Leras gave them tools, they just needed to connect the dots and figure stuff on their own. If they had been incapable of doing so, Scadrial would have been lost (if Ruin was freed back then).

5 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Again, you know what I mean. I understand that preserving true history is a frail endeavor, especially in the empire's circumstances. But I think even the Keepers would've had some insight if it turned out Mists were always a part of Scadrial that existed for several thousand years. Or maybe Alendi would've mentioned nightime Mists apart from the Deepness, in his logbook. Instead, for millennia the Mists appeared only when the Well was nearly full. And yet, the Mists appear every night only after Rashek Ascended.

That you think Mists just weren't appearing before Rashek's times? That's not true, they were always on Scadrial after Ruin was imprisoned, but only during the night. Preservation left them to be autonomous, they were lying dormant waiting for the Well to be filled, then they were activated and started to persist during the day longer and longer. That was always happening. Even during Alendi's time, there were people who disregarded the threat posed by the Deepness? Why would they do this if Mists were unknown before? Because they weren't, they knew the Mists, they knew they posed no danger, they didn't think they could change. TFE ch 22 epigraphs:

Quote

At first, there were those who didn't think the Deepness was a serious danger, at least not to them. 

 

Spoiler

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

Before the Ascension, why did the mists appear just as the well was gaining power? Did they come out at other times?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This one is trickier. From what I got out of it, it's because the mists are a manifestation of Preservation, and physical manifestations of Preservation (including Allomancers) are intended to do two things - stop Ruin, and protect the Well of Ascension. Which are kind of the same thing. So, when the Well was dormant, the mists didn't really have much to do. The Deepness form of the mists is a result of the conscious part of Preservation freaking out and trying to produce a way to protect the well, mostly by producing more Allomancers. That's why the mists do all the funky things in the Well of Ascension and Hero of Ages - they're trying to produce more Allomancers to combat Ruin.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

 

6 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Nothing we know about the Worldbringers indicates they knew about atium or used it to delay aging. The First Generation knew about atium and the deal because the Well gifted that knowledge to Rashek, who spread it to the Firsts.

That's one possibility. The other is that the First Generation knew some of it before Rashek's Ascension. We don't know how much of what they knew came from Rashek and what was originally part of their religion. 

6 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Furthermore, Ruin's perpendicularity is not the Pits of Hathsin. The Pits of Hathsin were specifically crafted by Preservation during the imprisonment and betrayal, several thousand years ago, designed for the grand outcome of aware Allomancers burning away all of Ruin's body. I do think A perpendicularity existed near the Well. But not the Pits or THE perpendicularity. Nothing in the story or lore indicates millennia of unaware Allomancers, or some time of Feruchemists, knew of the true magical value of atium. Like I said, that seems very suspicious to me.

Ruin didn't have just one perpendicularity, he had many. There were several smaller perpendicularities in and under the Pits of Hathsin and that's because the Pits contained a massive amounts of investiture which can pierce all realms if there is too much of it in one place. Wherever the Pits were, there were Ruin's perpendicularities. And because we KNOW from Alendi's journal that one of Ruin's Shardpool was spotted close to the Well, we know that's where the Pits containing Atium were located. Additionally, we know that Rashek didn't just move the Well to Luthadel, he shifted the entire crust of Scadrial so he could place Luthadel on top of the Well, in lower latitudes - this means that the location of the Pits relative to the Well was preserved. The Well and the Pits were always close to each other.

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

Does Ruin have a pool, similar to Preservation's pool with the Well of Ascension and Skai's pool in Elantris?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. His pool is the Pits [Pits of Hathsin].

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Dalenthas

Does the Well of Ascension still exist in the new world? Or is it no longer necessary? I assumed that Preservation collected there like Ruin collects in the Pits of Hathsin, so if Atium keeps forming then the well should keep filling...

Brandon Sanderson

The Well (and the small wells in the Pits) is no more. For now at least.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Hoid worldhops between places. How did he do it on Scadrial? With Ati's body?

Brandon Sanderson

So, there were two perpendicularities on Scadrial.

Questioner

I know he uses the pools, but how did he do it with Pits of Hathsin? There was no pool? The body was there...

Brandon Sanderson

So, it doesn't have to be going through the pool. What happens with a perpendicularity is, where there is a massive collection of Investiture, it pulls a conduit through. So, if you know what you're doing and where you are, you can get through that.

Questioner

So you don't have to use the pools, just where there's a huge concentration...

Brandon Sanderson

A huge concentration of Investiture will warp the realms.

[...]

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventy-Six

The North Pole

One of my big challenges in the geography of this world was figuring out how we could have a kingdom set at the pole of the world while at the same time maintaining a normal day/night cycle. My original plan was for the Well of Ascension to be located a distance to the north of Luthadel, up at the geographic north pole of the planet. When I was revising the second book, I realized that wouldn't work for various reasons. (More on this on the MISTBORN 2 Alternate Ending deleted scene page.) I changed things so that when the Lord Ruler held the power in the Well, he decoupled the geographic north pole and the magnetic north pole.

In our world, the magnetic north pole is located about eleven degrees of latitude south of the geographic north pole. On Scadrial, the two poles were originally in the same location. When the Lord Ruler moved the planet too close to its sun and realized he didn't have the control to place the planet in the proper orbit, he created the ashmounts to cool the atmosphere. He also wanted to keep access to the Well under his control, so he decided to build his capital city right above it. However, he realized that on a planet with a tilted axis, a city at the north pole would have seasonal daylight variation so extreme that at the height of summer the sun would never set and during the dead of winter the sun would never rise. He could remove the axis's tilt, but that would just make the sun perpetually skirt the horizon all year round.

What Rashek decided to do (and he had to make split-second decisions in the brief time he held the power) was to shift the crust of the whole planet so that the Well was at a latitude that would have more standard seasonal variation, and to re-create the Terris mountains in the new North (to maintain the rumors that the Well was located there). He worried that the new location of Luthadel would be too hot due to the latitude, but it turned out that moving the Well created an unexpected effect. The planet's magnetic pole followed the Well as he relocated it—and the ash from the ashmounts was slightly ferromagnetic. (Ferromagnetic volcanic ash has some precedent in our world.) So the interaction of the ash with the planet's magnetic field's new alignment meant that its protective cloak over the area of the Final Empire caused it to be cooler than the now unprotected geographic north pole.

One side effect of this is that all compasses point toward Luthadel. Since it's been that way for a thousand years, no one finds it odd–in fact, it's used as evidence of the Lord Ruler's divinity. It also makes it mathematically very easy to pinpoint one's exact location in the Final Empire using a combination of the compass reading and noon observations. Not that it's easy to get lost in the Final Empire in the first place—the geographical area of the planet's surface that the Final Empire covers is actually quite small.

Ultimately, when it comes down to sophisticated geography and astrophysics, I'm out of my element. If there are mistakes in my reasoning above, that is why I write fantasy and not hard sf.

And I still haven't said anything about what happened at the south pole.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (May 4, 2010)

Because of this, because Atium was almost exactly at the north pole, high in the highest mountains, far away from any human settlement, people would have no idea about it at allo. I proposed that the religion of Terris contained some information about Atium, something like saying there is the physical body of gods somewhere out there or stuff like this. Not naming it, not saying exactly what it does, just vague clues about its existence - enough to make people realize what needs to be done when the time comes, but not enough to make Ruin realize its true meaning.

Also, we know that ancient Terris were knowledgeable about Realmatics, they were studying if trees can think - it's possible they were able to use the Well or Pits to travel into the CR.

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

Wow. This thread took a radically hard right turn from the last time I read it...

 

Buuut...We all still agree that there will be another mistborn created eventually, they will probably be a deviant or criminal by simple virtue of the fact that mistborn typically operate extra-judiciously (because they can reliably get away with it), and 100% of the information that we have which is reportedly from before Rashek's ascension is (and always shall be) subject to an unveriable degree of disinformation though...right...?

 

Like...The ancient allomancers are rumored to have had knowledge of hemalurgy and been able to hear Ruin's commands and offer prayers directly to Preservation. This could just as easily be an outright lie as a clear indicator that they understood their magic systems better than era1 scadrians if you ask me...