in Truth,watcher of tv he/him Posted September 16 Report Share Posted September 16 So, this is a bunch of theories about all things Bondsmith that have been simmering in my head for a while. I’ve tried to keep it concise, so I can probably expand on my reasoning if need be. Feedback welcome. Firstly, waterbending. We have fire magic with the Dustbringers, air magic with the Windrunners, and earth magic with the Stonewards (as well as literal elemental magic with Soulcasting). Adhesion can manipulate pressure, and Tension includes water surface tension; to me, those seem like the two forces you need to move and shape water. It also fits thematically, water being a universal and regulating substance on a living planet, especially Roshar. Secondly, the Nightwatcher. The only thing we really know she does is the Old Magic, but I think this is misleading. As a Bondsmith spren, she is by definition broadly Connected across Roshar and has a crucial role, but playing a genie for the occasional person who enters her Valley doesn’t match this. I think the Nightwatcher is the spren of gemhearts. They are a manifestation of Investiture, and it would be fitting if the Stormlight provided by the Stormfather is held in gems of Lifelight provided by the Nightwatcher. If the Windrunners have a special association with the Stormfather, then it makes sense if their counterparts on Cultivation’s side of Surgebinding have an association with the Nightwatcher; the Edgedancers’ Soulcasting essence is crystal after all. Third: Bondsmith responsibilities. Considering the Bondsmiths are sworn to unite but are Bonded to vastly different spren with different Intents, I think the different Bondsmiths will swear to unite different types of sapient beings to the Radiant cause. Since Honour acts as the god of people on Roshar, the Stormfather’s Bondsmith is sworn to unite “men” (which probably can extend to singers). Cultivation acts as the god of nature, and we are starting to see that many of the greatshells are at least somewhat sapient, so I would think the Nightsmith swears to unite the greatshells (or even broadly ‘nature’) to the cause. When it comes to the Sibling, it’s a bit less clear. The other two have Shards with well-established areas of Investment but for the Sibling, being a mix, I can only think of two phenomena on Roshar that could be described as an even mix of the Shards: the Knights Radiant and spren. I’m fairly sure all three Bondsmith’s are responsible for uniting the Radiants, so that leaves the Siblingsmith to swear to unite the spren peoples. Fourth: Bondsmith influence. This is a bit out there, but I was thinking about how the Bondsmiths are meant to be “guiding” as an Order, and what this could mean. They are the centre of a web of Connection and represent a powerful conduit of Investiture, so I would expect that Intent to influence the union. It seems to me, within a society, Honour relates to centralised hierarchy and militancy while Cultivation relates to grassroots productivity (warform and workform each triggering a Pure Tone of the Shards is a good indication). So far, while there has been only a Stormfather Bondsmith, the Knights Radiant have been gathering to Urithiru and fulfilling their Oaths in militant ways: soldiers, field medics, spies. When/if we get a Nightwatcher Bondsmith, I think the Radiants may decentralise a bit and we will see the them moving to more community focused roles: leaders, social workers, artists. We’ve seen a bit of this in RoW with Kaladin being forced to step down from the military and finding other ways to protect, this may be setting up future storylines. The Siblingsmith I would think has either a balanced effect or could cause the Radiants to have a more internal focus. Fifth: the Platespren. Gloryspren likely form the Stormsmith’s Plate, but they don’t really fit with the other Bondsmith spren. The Platespren are generally ‘cousins’ or related concepts to the Radiant spren, and glory being a bold, noble and socially oriented concept is fitting for the Honour-aligned Bondsmith. Cultivation, on the other hand, is a more subtle, nurturing and nature focused Shard. So, I think the Nightsmith’s Platespren might be riverspren. In terms of associations to the Nightwatcher; you would expect to find a river in a mountain valley and the Nightwatcher is described moving through the trees like a river. Riverspren are also notably large and smart spren like windspren and they would connect back well with the Bondsmith’s possibly manipulating water. As for the Siblingsmith, I would guess their Platespren would be awespren; they would be fairly common around Urithiru and the listeners sing about the Knights Radiant to the Rhythm of Awe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted September 16 Report Share Posted September 16 I love the idea that Bondsmiths will have platespren as different as the Godspren, I hope that proves out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas333 Posted September 16 Report Share Posted September 16 13 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: Third: Bondsmith responsibilities. Considering the Bondsmiths are sworn to unite but are Bonded to vastly different spren with different Intents, I think the different Bondsmiths will swear to unite different types of sapient beings to the Radiant cause. Since Honour acts as the god of people on Roshar, the Stormfather’s Bondsmith is sworn to unite “men” (which probably can extend to singers). Cultivation acts as the god of nature, and we are starting to see that many of the greatshells are at least somewhat sapient, so I would think the Nightsmith swears to unite the greatshells (or even broadly ‘nature’) to the cause. While uniting nature could be the goal of the nightsmith, I don't think most forms of nature are really sapient enough to do so; rather, I think it's much more likely that the nightsmith will focus on uniting the parshendi (and potentially traitorous fused). I think this makes sense as the parshendi are more in touch with nature than other cultures we've seen. Additionally, the listeners seem to be reemerging as a new faction that largely goes along with what you've said (grassroots organization and close relationship to gemhearts). Finally, listeners left their previous god and essentially sacrificed themselves; I think it would be poetic for them to get a new god (cultivation) to protect them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofurion Posted September 16 Report Share Posted September 16 20 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: Secondly, the Nightwatcher. The only thing we really know she does is the Old Magic, but I think this is misleading. As a Bondsmith spren, she is by definition broadly Connected across Roshar and has a crucial role, but playing a genie for the occasional person who enters her Valley doesn’t match this. I think the Nightwatcher is the spren of gemhearts. They are a manifestation of Investiture, and it would be fitting if the Stormlight provided by the Stormfather is held in gems of Lifelight provided by the Nightwatcher. If the Windrunners have a special association with the Stormfather, then it makes sense if their counterparts on Cultivation’s side of Surgebinding have an association with the Nightwatcher; the Edgedancers’ Soulcasting essence is crystal after all. Well, based on its body structure it should have a relationship with the Mistspren. 20 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: Third: Bondsmith responsibilities. Considering the Bondsmiths are sworn to unite but are Bonded to vastly different spren with different Intents, I think the different Bondsmiths will swear to unite different types of sapient beings to the Radiant cause. Since Honour acts as the god of people on Roshar, the Stormfather’s Bondsmith is sworn to unite “men” (which probably can extend to singers). Cultivation acts as the god of nature, and we are starting to see that many of the greatshells are at least somewhat sapient, so I would think the Nightsmith swears to unite the greatshells (or even broadly ‘nature’) to the cause. When it comes to the Sibling, it’s a bit less clear. The other two have Shards with well-established areas of Investment but for the Sibling, being a mix, I can only think of two phenomena on Roshar that could be described as an even mix of the Shards: the Knights Radiant and spren. I’m fairly sure all three Bondsmith’s are responsible for uniting the Radiants, so that leaves the Siblingsmith to swear to unite the spren peoples. Well, there is a hypothesis a couple of years old that would classify them as follows: Stormfather: Men/men bond Sibling: Men/Spren bond Nightwacher: Spren/spren bond And in the last books we have been shown that the Spren can be equally or more divided than men. 20 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: Fifth: the Platespren. Gloryspren likely form the Stormsmith’s Plate, but they don’t really fit with the other Bondsmith spren. The Platespren are generally ‘cousins’ or related concepts to the Radiant spren, and glory being a bold, noble and socially oriented concept is fitting for the Honour-aligned Bondsmith. Cultivation, on the other hand, is a more subtle, nurturing and nature focused Shard. So, I think the Nightsmith’s Platespren might be riverspren. In terms of associations to the Nightwatcher; you would expect to find a river in a mountain valley and the Nightwatcher is described moving through the trees like a river. Riverspren are also notably large and smart spren like windspren and they would connect back well with the Bondsmith’s possibly manipulating water. As for the Siblingsmith, I would guess their Platespren would be awespren; they would be fairly common around Urithiru and the listeners sing about the Knights Radiant to the Rhythm of Awe. Honestly, I am in favor of Riverspren being the Truthwatcher's Platespren, since it is conceptually coherent with the "Mist" theme. Besides, I have the hypothesis that unlike the other 9 Orders whose Platespren come from common Sprens in quantity (like Riverspren), the Bondsmith's Platespren should be a little rarer. For example, for the Nightwatcher, I am in favor of Rainspren being associated with it, they are Sprens that appear mostly during the Weeping (coincidentally, a time without Highstorm's). As for the Sibling, I think the ideal ones would be the Bindspren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in Truth,watcher of tv he/him Posted September 19 Author Report Share Posted September 19 On 9/16/2024 at 10:25 PM, Atlas333 said: While uniting nature could be the goal of the nightsmith, I don't think most forms of nature are really sapient enough to do so; rather, I think it's much more likely that the nightsmith will focus on uniting the parshendi (and potentially traitorous fused). I think this makes sense as the parshendi are more in touch with nature than other cultures we've seen. Additionally, the listeners seem to be reemerging as a new faction that largely goes along with what you've said (grassroots organization and close relationship to gemhearts). Finally, listeners left their previous god and essentially sacrificed themselves; I think it would be poetic for them to get a new god (cultivation) to protect them. I generally agree with your point about nature, I just through that in there because Rosharan nature keeps throwing us curveballs and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing all the plants and bugs rising up against the voidbringers. Probably just the greatshells though. It's also not lost on me that singers kind of fall under all the three of the categories that I outlined: humanoid people, part spren (from the formspren), and gemheart-bearing creatures of Roshar. I do reckon that they will fall under the Stormsmith's jurisdiction though, I don't think there is a functional difference between them and humans when it comes to the Bondsmith Ideals, only perceptions and unbridgeable divides have prevented unity in the past. Also, I agree that the listeners will probably end up worshipping Cultivation primarily, though I do see a fair bit of Honour in them, with how they handled the assassination. On 9/17/2024 at 5:30 AM, Dofurion said: Well, based on its body structure it should have a relationship with the Mistspren. I kind of messed up my wording here, I meant the Windrunners have a relationship with the highstorms which are indelibly linked with the Stormfather, and the same would go with Edgedancers-gemhearts-Nightwatcher. So not a direct connection. But yes, the Nightwatcher would have a relationship with everything close to Cultivation, especially mistspren. On 9/17/2024 at 5:30 AM, Dofurion said: Well, there is a hypothesis a couple of years old that would classify them as follows: Stormfather: Men/men bond Sibling: Men/Spren bond Nightwacher: Spren/spren bond And in the last books we have been shown that the Spren can be equally or more divided than men. Interesting, I hadn't seen that. Is that about Nahel Bonds or just general unity? In my mind they each unite a group together and to the Knights Radiant, making a whole centred on the Radiants. Those three groups being humans/singers, spren, and greatshells. On 9/17/2024 at 5:30 AM, Dofurion said: Honestly, I am in favor of Riverspren being the Truthwatcher's Platespren, since it is conceptually coherent with the "Mist" theme. Besides, I have the hypothesis that unlike the other 9 Orders whose Platespren come from common Sprens in quantity (like Riverspren), the Bondsmith's Platespren should be a little rarer. For example, for the Nightwatcher, I am in favor of Rainspren being associated with it, they are Sprens that appear mostly during the Weeping (coincidentally, a time without Highstorm's). As for the Sibling, I think the ideal ones would be the Bindspren I'm of the opinion the platespren are some of the more auspicious of the lesser spren; for things made of Connections having such powerful Connections in itself would make them more important, which is one of the reasons I mentioned the riverspren's size. I personally think the Truthwatcher's have the luckspren/mandras, because both them and the mistspren seem to share a distinct eagerness to help and work with others, the common thread between the three being 'facilitation'. That said, I do like that we agree the Nightsmith plate would be a watery spren. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofurion Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 (edited) 10 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: Interesting, I hadn't seen that. Is that about Nahel Bonds or just general unity? In my mind they each unite a group together and to the Knights Radiant, making a whole centred on the Radiants. Those three groups being humans/singers, spren, and greatshells. General unity, the Sprens are very prejudiced against each other, Honorsprens and Highsprens, Inksprens and Honorsprens, all generally against the Cryptics. 10 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said: I'm of the opinion the platespren are some of the more auspicious of the lesser spren; for things made of Connections having such powerful Connections in itself would make them more important, which is one of the reasons I mentioned the riverspren's size. I personally think the Truthwatcher's have the luckspren/mandras, because both them and the mistspren seem to share a distinct eagerness to help and work with others, the common thread between the three being 'facilitation'. That said, I do like that we agree the Nightsmith plate would be a watery spren. Well I have no problem with reversing both platesprens but I don't think the Mandras are part of any armor. Edited September 20 by Dofurion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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