Steel Speedster ♂ Posted August 12, 2024 Posted August 12, 2024 We know that you can store Allomantically granted attributes in metalminds. Quote Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Allomantic pewter strength can be stored in a metalmind, but it's probably easier to just Compound. Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011) It would be reasonable to assume from this that one could also store the senses granted by A-tin in tinminds. However, what I am wondering is, does storing Allomantic attributes change them into the Feruchemical attributes? Because the two are not the same. Allomantic pewter does not increase your bulk, for one thing. A-tin and F-tin also have some differences between the senses they give you, although it's not as big of a difference. This WoB seems to suggest that they would not be the same when stored. It isn't exactly the same situation, but it does give us proof that not all versions of an attribute act the same when stored. Quote Vodid If you have caffeine, can you store that as wakefulness in a bronzemind? Brandon Sanderson I think that you can, but I think when you tap it out, you will have kind of the same effects, right. Like, you will feel like you are not quite as awake. Like that feeling you get, I think you guys know what I'm talking about. I think that you can, I think that you can hack the system with some things like that. That's my guess... That's my answer right now, but that's one pretty mutable, as we go forward. Adam Horne I'd be curious to see what you could do with that in Era 3, because pharmaceuticals will exist. Brandon Sanderson Yes well, you're already getting into the fact that you could replicate a lot of things, with... once they figure how to change types of Investiture and whatnot, then suddenly you've got some wacky things going on. Which is why a Mistborn cyberpunk would be so much fun, because metallurgic wetware would be fun. But no promises on that—I already have too many things to write. It's just that if I do write it, and I make it a trilogy, then we have sixteen books in the Mistborn series. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) However, if it's true that Allomantic pewter and Allomantic tin would retain their normal properties when tapped from metalminds, then why, in the first WoB, does Brandon say that it's easier to just compound? The ideal thing to do would be to store a bit of Allomantic pewter strength, then compound that, so you get a supply of strength that doesn't bulk you up when tapped. I suppose he just might not have been thinking of that when he answered? It is one of those paraphrased answers, so there isn't much context. (I'll also point out that, yes, I realize that Brandon isn't giving complete confirmation on caffeine working for a bronzemind, but it's the principle that matters here. It implies that you can store a variant of the normal attribute in a metalmind and have it retain its properties when tapped.) Anyone able to shed some light on this?
Treamayne Posted August 12, 2024 Posted August 12, 2024 46 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said: Anyone able to shed some light on this? There are also these WoBs: Spoiler Quote NewbSombrero Can Feruchemical tin store Allomantically granted senses like bronze sense? Brandon Sanderson Possible. General Signed Books 2018 (Feb. 8, 2018) Quote BartimaeusTrilogyFan Can Feruchemists store more than the five ‘traditional’ senses, and does Allomantic tin enhance more than the traditional five senses? Brandon Sanderson More is possible. /r/books AMA 2015 (May 17, 2015) Note that when we see an Allomancer burn Tin for sight, they have better night vision and clarity, but not improved distance. Whereas when we see Sazed tap a Tinmind he specifically calls this out as different - where compressed tapping leads to an almost telescopic effect. So, theoretically, storing A-Tin Vision in a Sight Tinmind may be able to give access to F-Tin nightvision or other effects. WoA Ch 8: Quote She burned tin, restoring her night vision, releasing a veil of tension from her mind; since she’d discovered her powers, she’d never had to go out at night in complete darkness. The shutters of the Watcher’s room were open; he had apparently fled during her fit. WoA Ch 12: Quote He and Sazed stood on the crater’s northern lip, before a drop of several hundred feet. Sazed tapped his vision tinmind, drawing forth some of the eyesight he had stored within it. The edges of his vision fuzzed, but things directly in front of him seemed to grow much closer. <snip> “I won’t be able to see inside there.” “Your Feruchemy…” Sazed shook his head. “It can let me see better in darkness, but only if there’s some light to begin with. In addition, tapping that much sight would drain my tinmind in a matter of minutes. I’ll need a lantern.” WoA Ch 19: Quote Hanging from the very tip of the tree, Sazed tapped his tinmind. The edges of his vision fuzzed, as always, but with the increased vision he could make out details about the large group settled into a hollow before him. He was right about it being an army. He was wrong about it being made up of men. @Koloss17 has done much theorizing on F-Tin (ab)uses. 1
Quantus he/him Posted August 12, 2024 Posted August 12, 2024 1 hour ago, Speeding Steelrunner said: We know that you can store Allomantically granted attributes in metalminds. It would be reasonable to assume from this that one could also store the senses granted by A-tin in tinminds. However, what I am wondering is, does storing Allomantic attributes change them into the Feruchemical attributes? Because the two are not the same. Allomantic pewter does not increase your bulk, for one thing. A-tin and F-tin also have some differences between the senses they give you, although it's not as big of a difference. This WoB seems to suggest that they would not be the same when stored. It isn't exactly the same situation, but it does give us proof that not all versions of an attribute act the same when stored. However, if it's true that Allomantic pewter and Allomantic tin would retain their normal properties when tapped from metalminds, then why, in the first WoB, does Brandon say that it's easier to just compound? The ideal thing to do would be to store a bit of Allomantic pewter strength, then compound that, so you get a supply of strength that doesn't bulk you up when tapped. I suppose he just might not have been thinking of that when he answered? It is one of those paraphrased answers, so there isn't much context. (I'll also point out that, yes, I realize that Brandon isn't giving complete confirmation on caffeine working for a bronzemind, but it's the principle that matters here. It implies that you can store a variant of the normal attribute in a metalmind and have it retain its properties when tapped.) Anyone able to shed some light on this? I see it as being any (or all) of the following: As you say, maybe he just wasnt considering the Bulky upper limit of Feruchemical Strength in the moment. He's mentioned that Q&A's can move quickly and he doesnt always have the nuance in mind. We are Underestimating F-Pewter, and this is one of those cases where the known limit is the result of "default" magic and a lack of understanding (or rather an Assumption that becomes real). Meaning a skilled Ferring might be able to store Feruchemical Strength in a way that does not cause physical bulk changes. Storing Weight doesnt make you smaller and tapping Mental capacity doesnt add grey matter Megamind-style, maybe the muscle bulk comes along because users have always assume it should. We are misunderstanding how A-Pewter actually works and so misunderstanding what we'd be trying to Feruchemcially Store. Per This WOB, A-Pewter may actually be unlocking a Mind-Over-Matter state that more like the Returned's shapeshifting while it's active. Which would just put a whole weird spin on all the realmics of what's happening to a Petwerarm and what would be available to Store while they're Burning. Spoiler Quote Questioner (paraphrased) 1. On a scale of 1 to 10, how similar are the processes of Command-Breaking a Lifeless and Unmaking? 2. Is there more going on behind the scenes when an Allomancer burns pewter? I suspect that the process triggers a "mind over matter" state, where the user's desires are made manifest, albeit in a limited way. If so, can a pewter burner alter their Physical appearance, similar to a Returned (provided they knew they could and had access to enough pewter)? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) 1. 7 they are similar 2a. That is a valid theory. On the right track. 2b. Possible in theory FanX 2022 (Sept. 22, 2022)
Koloss17 She/They Posted August 12, 2024 Posted August 12, 2024 3 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said: We know that you can store Allomantically granted attributes in metalminds. It would be reasonable to assume from this that one could also store the senses granted by A-tin in tinminds. However, what I am wondering is, does storing Allomantic attributes change them into the Feruchemical attributes? Because the two are not the same. Allomantic pewter does not increase your bulk, for one thing. A-tin and F-tin also have some differences between the senses they give you, although it's not as big of a difference. This WoB seems to suggest that they would not be the same when stored. It isn't exactly the same situation, but it does give us proof that not all versions of an attribute act the same when stored. However, if it's true that Allomantic pewter and Allomantic tin would retain their normal properties when tapped from metalminds, then why, in the first WoB, does Brandon say that it's easier to just compound? The ideal thing to do would be to store a bit of Allomantic pewter strength, then compound that, so you get a supply of strength that doesn't bulk you up when tapped. I suppose he just might not have been thinking of that when he answered? It is one of those paraphrased answers, so there isn't much context. (I'll also point out that, yes, I realize that Brandon isn't giving complete confirmation on caffeine working for a bronzemind, but it's the principle that matters here. It implies that you can store a variant of the normal attribute in a metalmind and have it retain its properties when tapped.) Anyone able to shed some light on this? So if you want reverse compounding potential (which is what I like to call it) I have created a thread on it! Also, this enables for insanely easy feruchemy savantism, as you are getting external power from feruchemy, which is usually power neutral. (This is why Perses in the Alleyverse is so strong with F-Tin bronzesense-he’s a bronzesense if not F-Tin in general savant). Heres the reverse compounding thread As to do the nature of the stored attribute change, I don’t think so. If you store A-atium in a chromiummind, I don’t think you would be able to have visions of the future akin to (Stormlight spoilers) Spoiler Renarin’s fortune
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