What the “dog who became a dragon” story is an allegory for

[coolsnow7]

I haven’t seen much speculation about what the non-allegorical meaning (I know Hoid, I know, stories don’t have meanings, art is just for its own sake blah blah blah) of the “dog who wanted to become a dragon” story is.

My best guess is that this is about Hoid himself in the present day. He’s trying to assemble all of these powers that emerge from divinities. He realizes that they won’t make him a “dragon” (God) - that’s fine, he will settle for “good enough to save the farmer’s son” (the Cosmere).

If this theory is correct, where does that leave us? Well, that he wants to lead humanity and/or all sentient life throughout the Cosmere - not by being omnipotent but by having everyone’s support. 

[dvoraen]

I took it as a metaphor for Kaladin needing to realize he has limits, and it's okay to be exactly who he is and not constantly try to one-up himself. He can learn to do incredible things without fundamentally changing who he is.

[Ascended Grubberfly He/Him]

It could also be that Kaladin was constantly thinking he wasn't good enough to protect people, and the story made him accept that fact

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

Well let's remember what we know about the story:

1. The tale is specifically about a jealous dog, one who covets powers that they themselves can never have but strive to simulate and reproduce anyway.

2. The dog is ridiculed persistently by its peers despite massive strides in innovation. This actually doesn't sound much to me like Kaladin (who is famously popular) or Hoid (who is famously thick-skinned)

3. The dog saves a child in danger with no hesitation or thought of reward by putting itself in danger.

4. The "dog" can write, but specifically cannot speak and be heard.

5. The dog still apparently regards himself as a failure, and his reward for thoughtlessly saving others is unending peace, comfort, and love rather than the indomitable power that he wished to obtain.

This almost sounds to me like an ascension story. Like...a person who worked their life away to hold a Shard and, upon doing so, realized that they could only affect positive outcomes with the most minor uses of their infinite power, and everything else brings only greater pain...I'm not sure what the literal in-world origin of the folktale is still though...

[Treamayne]

On 6/9/2024 at 10:49 PM, coolsnow7 said:

I haven’t seen much speculation about what the non-allegorical meaning (I know Hoid, I know, stories don’t have meanings, art is just for its own sake blah blah blah) of the “dog who wanted to become a dragon” story is.

My best guess is that this is about Hoid himself in the present day. He’s trying to assemble all of these powers that emerge from divinities. He realizes that they won’t make him a “dragon” (God) - that’s fine, he will settle for “good enough to save the farmer’s son” (the Cosmere).

If this theory is correct, where does that leave us? Well, that he wants to lead humanity and/or all sentient life throughout the Cosmere - not by being omnipotent but by having everyone’s support. 

What makes you think there is only one allegory, message, or lesson? It seems to me that:

Spoiler

• Do not become so blinded by what you did not accomplish that you cannot see your successes
  • This is Kaladin
• Do not allow past failure to blind you to present good fortune
  • This is also Kaladin
• Do not covet that which is unobtainable.
  • ?
• Continue to innovate toward even unobtainable goals, who knows where they might lead.
  • Possibly Navani?
• Do not allow your peers to determine what you can and cannot accomplish
  • Uh. . . Everybody (readers included)
• others?

 

[Jasaprugus he/him]

18 hours ago, dvoraen said:

I took it as a metaphor for Kaladin needing to realize he has limits, and it's okay to be exactly who he is and not constantly try to one-up himself. He can learn to do incredible things without fundamentally changing who he is.

thats what I thought too but the wit allegory also makes sense

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

6 hours ago, Treamayne said:

What makes you think there is only one allegory, message, or lesson? It seems to me that:

  Hide contents

• Do not become so blinded by what you did not accomplish that you cannot see your successes
  • This is Kaladin
• Do not allow past failure to blind you to present good fortune
  • This is also Kaladin
• Do not covet that which is unobtainable.
  • ?
• Continue to innovate toward even unobtainable goals, who knows where they might lead.
  • Possibly Navani?
• Do not allow your peers to determine what you can and cannot accomplish
  • Uh. . . Everybody (readers included)
• others?

 

Well...just like stories in real life, there is usually one man, woman, or child who lives them to completion before they are shared, iterated, and retold. The most powerful stories have a single literal origin, which is so oft' repeated throughtout time and refined throughout centuries or millenia, that scholars and historians argue and, in extremely extreme cases, encourage others to fight wars, trying to specifically identify, label, and confirm consensus regarding what said origin was...

And if that doesn't make everyone laugh beyond all capacity for reason, then nothing shall. lol.

[Duxredux he/him]

On 6/9/2024 at 8:49 PM, coolsnow7 said:

I haven’t seen much speculation about what the non-allegorical meaning (I know Hoid, I know, stories don’t have meanings, art is just for its own sake blah blah blah) of the “dog who wanted to become a dragon” story is.

My best guess is that this is about Hoid himself in the present day. He’s trying to assemble all of these powers that emerge from divinities. He realizes that they won’t make him a “dragon” (God) - that’s fine, he will settle for “good enough to save the farmer’s son” (the Cosmere).

If this theory is correct, where does that leave us? Well, that he wants to lead humanity and/or all sentient life throughout the Cosmere - not by being omnipotent but by having everyone’s support. 

I dunno... Hoid is fantastic at burning bridges with former associates. We have the letters in the Oathbringer epigraphs that say how many important friends he currently has helping him out, he left Sigzil to run bridges while he insulted Lighteyes and gave Kaladin a flute. Thaidakar has pointed opinions on him. Telling Dalinar that he will see Roshar burn if it will help him achieve his goals. If he is trying to gain universal support, he's going about in a really weird way.

I like others assume that Hoid just knew where he was supposed to be in the way he does and that supposed to be was sheltering Kaladin so that Odium did not destroy him or gain a terrible tool by subverting Stormblessed. He definitely had a stated purpose, which was to give Kaladin a breather - it was a surprise when Kaladin asked for a story. In the end Hoid did relent and just give Kaladin straight advice, that all dark nights have an end, and that Kaladin would one day feel warm again.

Full Cosmere spoilers, including secret projects:

Spoiler

Beyond that, if Hoid is directly related to any story he shares, he hasn't seemed to show any hesitance to say so, even if he ends up telling his audience that he was committing lame or utterly atrocious acts like wearing socks with sandals, straining noodles through dirty socks, or providing service as a coatrack. He did write for a friend to come when he got cursed - who largely stood by and wrote down the funnier things that Hoid did.

 

[ChillPenguin]

Didn’t Hoid say something during one of his story tellings (maybe this one) that the story is intended to be interpreted by the audience. He says he’s not actually pushing a particular message?

 

If he did say that, I think it’s half-true. My impression of his stories are that he’s trying to influence an individual but it’s sort of like inception. He doesn’t directly tell Kaladin a specific thing, doesn’t make it too on the nose because the audience will reject it if the message runs counter to the current beliefs.

The story delivers something for Kaladin to think about, probably partly to distract from the emotional hell he was in, and partly to give Kaladin some building blocks to build a new way of thinking.

He could say “don’t be so hard on yourself, Kaladin, you’re doing great” and maybe Kaladin needs to hear those words from someone (Lirin!!!), but not from someone like Hoid - he wouldn’t listen. 

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:15 PM, ChillPenguin said:

Didn’t Hoid say something during one of his story tellings (maybe this one) that the story is intended to be interpreted by the audience. He says he’s not actually pushing a particular message?

In The Sunlit Man, Sigzil mentions that Hoid often tries to disguise the purpose of his stories by saying they have no meaning, when he's clearly lying. I think that might be what's going on?

On 9/3/2024 at 1:48 PM, Lewis Nethur said:

This almost sounds to me like an ascension story. Like...a person who worked their life away to hold a Shard and, upon doing so, realized that they could only affect positive outcomes with the most minor uses of their infinite power, and everything else brings only greater pain...I'm not sure what the literal in-world origin of the folktale is still though...

I'm working with very little evidence here, but this somewhat reminds me of Ati? In Secret History, he says that he was never an ordinary human, but a Vessel awaiting power. He then takes up the Shard of Ruin, which nearly destroys Scadrial while he's holding it. 

[Vatsug]

I'm not sure the story is allegorical at all, but probably metaphorical. 

While I can't remember the exact details of the story, but I took it to be about accepting who you are and you are, and your limitations while also  realising you're capable of great things. 

Like, the dog was able to pull of some amazing feats despite not being a dragon. The dog is good enough as he is and was able to accomplish things no other dog could. 

Edited August 26, 2025 by Vatsug

[earthexile]

By reaching towards the impossible, an Ideal, the dog was able to transform himself and the people around him. He was never to become a dragon, just as a man is never going to live perfectly and make perfect choices. It's the reach that makes us grow, not the goal. It doesn't matter that the goal can't be reached.

It would be very funny if, down the line, we ever meet an incredibly Invested dog, running a planet like a dragon would.

[Nitpicking]

On 9/9/2025 at 10:14 AM, earthexile said:

By reaching towards the impossible, an Ideal, the dog was able to transform himself and the people around him. He was never to become a dragon, just as a man is never going to live perfectly and make perfect choices. It's the reach that makes us grow, not the goal. It doesn't matter that the goal can't be reached.

It would be very funny if, down the line, we ever meet an incredibly Invested dog, running a planet like a dragon would.

It turns out that Adonalsium was a sapient dog.

[earthexile]

22 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

It turns out that Adonalsium was a sapient dog.

Perhaps that's why the pattern emerges in evolution, like with axehounds. When a creature is treated as humanity's favored companion, given the love of family despite being something completely different from a human, it begins to more resemble God.

People think a lot of things about Dogs that remind me of a lot of thoughts about God. Dogs are seen as purely loving and sweet, innocent, never truly at fault when they misbehave, because we're the ones responsible for how things are. Utterly precious. You can really look in their eyes and see something that is not like yourself, but still awake, feeling, looking back at you with a loving mind. If there's divinity anywhere, it's in that sort of bond, across kinds. A spark of the oneness of all things that is ultimate truth.

[Highprince645343]

I've personally believed that it was a way of showing how people often are sad they can't do the impossible. The dog helps so many people, yet he's still sad about his life. Likewise, Kaladin saves many, yet is sad he couldn't save them all