Child of tanavast Posted June 5, 2024 Posted June 5, 2024 (edited) Hey guys I’m new but I heard a theory that Lirin maybe come honor as He directly says an idea of the bondsmiths in ROW (can’t remember the chapter) but he say that “he takes responsibility for what he has done” I also recall him saying variations of the wind runner oaths and I believe the edge dancers and possibly more I can’t remember what books or chapters as I listened to the audiobooks but I know he said something of them but I heard this theory and want to see what others think of it Edited June 7, 2024 by Child of tanavast
a Faceless Immortal he/him Posted June 6, 2024 Posted June 6, 2024 (edited) Quote kingbirdy (paraphrased) Is Lirin a worldhopper? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No, I'm going to quash that theory Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022) We know that Lirin isn't a Worldhopper, which would suggest to me that he isn't a Shard, although I guess perhaps you could argue that he is no longer able to Worldhop and hence could still be Honor, but that seems unlikely to have been Brandon's intention. Quote Winds Alight (paraphrased) In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, there is. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) There certainly is something funky going on with Kaladin though, we just I simply don't know how or what. Maybe when Honor was splintered the person bearing the shard (Tanavast) was ejected with some kind of amnesia and became Lirin? If they are the same physical person but realistically two very different people, then perhaps Lirin as we know him is not a Worldhopper. That being said, as far as I can tell, their descriptions don't line up, with Tanavast in Dalinar's vision being tall, and Lirin being short. Perhaps his height in Dalinar's vision is related to his perception of himself? If he is tall by Yolish standards he may appear tall in visions, but be short by Alethi standards in the physical realm. There's definitely a lot to think on. EDIT: Quote Questioner Is Honor still alive? Brandon Sanderson Honor? Honor's dead. Questioner What about Tanavast? Brandon Sanderson So, um, you can assume that there is no funny business going on there. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) Tanavast is probably dead, unless Brandon is deflecting here. Oh well, so long theory. You were good for all of 6 minutes. Edited June 6, 2024 by a Faceless Immortal WoB makes my theory doubtful 2
Treamayne Posted June 6, 2024 Posted June 6, 2024 36 minutes ago, a Faceless Immortal said: Tanavast is probably dead, unless Brandon is deflecting here. Oh well, so long theory. You were good for all of 6 minutes. Tanavast is definitevly dead, and merged his Cognitive Shadow into The Stormfather: Spoiler Questioner Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time... Brandon Sanderson Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are. Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015) 1 hour ago, Child of tanavast said: I heard this theory and want to see what others think of it I expect you'll find this theory devisive. As for me: (unfiltered opinion warning) Spoiler If Lirin Ascended to Honor, I think I would have to stop reading Stormlight Archive (unless it's very late in the series and Lirin gets a massive redemption arc), because as-of Rhythm of War, I consider him worse than Sadeas. (content warning) Spoiler In that he is intentionally mentally and emotionally abusive to his family, and without a shred of remorse because he *knows* he's right (no matter how often he's proven wrong, those don't count). He's right and he does not care who he hurts proving it. . . (more personal content warning) Spoiler I lived the first 22 years of my life with a Father just like this, and it took a few years after I left home for me to even realize how much damage he had done to us (though self-harm and suicidal ideation in two of three children by the age of 15 should be a huge clue, the cause was not so obvious because the abuse made sure the hate was all turned inward). The signs are there (not sure if they are put there intentionally by Brandon or not) in flashing hion brightness. My father died in 1999 and we are still dealing with the mental and emotional trauma he did to my mother. . . 25 years later. Discuss spoilered material only by PM please, if you must comment or have questions. I don't mind, but please don't derail the thread with it. Yeah, I have strong opinions on Lirin. 5
Child of tanavast Posted June 6, 2024 Author Posted June 6, 2024 (edited) 23 hours ago, Treamayne said: Tanavast is definitevly dead, and merged his Cognitive Shadow into The Stormfather: Reveal hidden contents Questioner Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time... Brandon Sanderson Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are. Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015) I expect you'll find this theory devisive. As for me: (unfiltered opinion warning) Hide contents If Lirin Ascended to Honor, I think I would have to stop reading Stormlight Archive (unless it's very late in the series and Lirin gets a massive redemption arc), because as-of Rhythm of War, I consider him worse than Sadeas. (content warning) Reveal hidden contents In that he is intentionally mentally and emotionally abusive to his family, and without a shred of remorse because he *knows* he's right (no matter how often he's proven wrong, those don't count). He's right and he does not care who he hurts proving it. . . (more personal content warning) Reveal hidden contents I lived the first 22 years of my life with a Father just like this, and it took a few years after I left home for me to even realize how much damage he had done to us (though self-harm and suicidal ideation in two of three children by the age of 15 should be a huge clue, the cause was not so obvious because the abuse made sure the hate was all turned inward). The signs are there (not sure if they are put there intentionally by Brandon or not) in flashing hion brightness. My father died in 1999 and we are still dealing with the mental and emotional trauma he did to my mother. . . 25 years later. Discuss spoilered material only by PM please, if you must comment or have questions. I don't mind, but please don't derail the thread with it. Yeah, I have strong opinions on Lirin. Spoiler Yes I would say that he could ascend to honor but I agree with your views and thought it was an interesting theory to pose Edited June 7, 2024 by Child of tanavast Hiding spoilers
NerdyAarakocra They/Them Posted June 7, 2024 Posted June 7, 2024 While I don't think Lirin is going to become Honor, it is a possibility. I think that Lirin represents the bad side of Honor, the part that's inflexible and cruel. We haven't seen much of that, and I think Lirin could be a segway into that conflict. Dalinar Kholin is the one who's gonna get Honor, though. 5
+Child of Hodor Posted June 7, 2024 Posted June 7, 2024 I just don't see Lirin as anything more than a foil / mirror for Kaladin. Where Kaladin gets his stick-in-the-mudness. He seems too minor of a character to become a god. I could see him becoming a radiant, maybe. What order? Whatever the worst one is. I can't stand him so I don't want to see him continue show up in other novels as a shard vessel. 1
EdgedancerJacob he/him Posted June 12, 2024 Posted June 12, 2024 I personally don't hate Lirin the way everyone else seems to (I actually often agree with his sentiments about war, even if I disagree with how rigidly he sticks to his dogma) but I don't see him as a good fit for the Shard of Honor. NerdyAarakocra put the reason well: On 6/7/2024 at 7:03 AM, NerdyAarakocra said: Lirin represents the bad side of Honor, the part that's inflexible and cruel. So while I don't think he will become the Shard, I enjoyed this thread! Thanks for posting such a unique prediction 2
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