I think I figured out the Seethe

[Dragonheir he/him]

This isn't really the most well formatted theory, so apologies for that. 

The seethe of the spore oceans, which is responsible for the spores being fluid, has baffled in-universe minds, and I don't think the Shard knows either. While I was trying to fall asleep, my half-conscious self seems to have figured it out. 

My theory is this: 

Verdant spores are edible, and thus contain sugars (C6H12O6). 

When glucose is consumed or burned, it releases six CO2s and three H2Os, 

Water activates the spores, which would cause more vines. 

 

In other words, Verdant spores cause an infinite loop, which would replenish the water levels and cause the activation of the other spores, such as the Zephyr ones, which would be the main source of the actual bubbles. The sunlight spores could be the cause of the vine burning. 

 

However, this process would probably be slow, and would require time for the water to condense, because I don't think humidity sets them off. (Does ice?) Because the sunlight spores would heat the area up again, and all of the spores would block the water source, the pauses in the Seethe might happen. 

Anyway, that's my idea. Maybe someone else will elaborate on, further describe, or completely shoot it down. Thanks for reading! 

[NerdyAarakocra They/Them]

17 hours ago, Dragonheir said:

This isn't really the most well formatted theory, so apologies for that. 

The seethe of the spore oceans, which is responsible for the spores being fluid, has baffled in-universe minds, and I don't think the Shard knows either. While I was trying to fall asleep, my half-conscious self seems to have figured it out. 

My theory is this: 

Verdant spores are edible, and thus contain sugars (C6H12O6). 

When glucose is consumed or burned, it releases six CO2s and three H2Os, 

Water activates the spores, which would cause more vines. 

 

In other words, Verdant spores cause an infinite loop, which would replenish the water levels and cause the activation of the other spores, such as the Zephyr ones, which would be the main source of the actual bubbles. The sunlight spores could be the cause of the vine burning. 

 

However, this process would probably be slow, and would require time for the water to condense, because I don't think humidity sets them off. (Does ice?) Because the sunlight spores would heat the area up again, and all of the spores would block the water source, the pauses in the Seethe might happen. 

Anyway, that's my idea. Maybe someone else will elaborate on, further describe, or completely shoot it down. Thanks for reading! 

Fun, and a good theory! That definitely covers the seethe... on the Emerald Sea. If that were the way the seethe, it would preclude the Midnight Sea having the Seethe, as it borders the Crimson Sea and four other seas that aren't Zephyr, Sunlight, or Verdant.

However, since the spores are at least partially biological, it would make sense for them to contain glucose. It would just mean there's a different method of producing gas once the spores degrade.

[Dragonheir he/him]

7 hours ago, NerdyAarakocra said:

hat definitely covers the seethe... on the Emerald Sea.

I believe it's been stated that the core of the planet is hollow, so the seethe is taking place there. Also, the reaction requires three spores, maybe four if there's one that makes things cold, so this would be happening in the center, because all three wouldn't mix otherwise. 

[alder24]

On 5/22/2024 at 10:16 PM, Dragonheir said:

This isn't really the most well formatted theory, so apologies for that. 

The seethe of the spore oceans, which is responsible for the spores being fluid, has baffled in-universe minds, and I don't think the Shard knows either. While I was trying to fall asleep, my half-conscious self seems to have figured it out. 

My theory is this: 

Verdant spores are edible, and thus contain sugars (C6H12O6). 

When glucose is consumed or burned, it releases six CO2s and three H2Os, 

Water activates the spores, which would cause more vines. 

 

In other words, Verdant spores cause an infinite loop, which would replenish the water levels and cause the activation of the other spores, such as the Zephyr ones, which would be the main source of the actual bubbles. The sunlight spores could be the cause of the vine burning. 

 

However, this process would probably be slow, and would require time for the water to condense, because I don't think humidity sets them off. (Does ice?) Because the sunlight spores would heat the area up again, and all of the spores would block the water source, the pauses in the Seethe might happen. 

Anyway, that's my idea. Maybe someone else will elaborate on, further describe, or completely shoot it down. Thanks for reading! 

13 hours ago, Dragonheir said:

I believe it's been stated that the core of the planet is hollow, so the seethe is taking place there. Also, the reaction requires three spores, maybe four if there's one that makes things cold, so this would be happening in the center, because all three wouldn't mix otherwise. 

It's an interesting and plausible explanation. But I agree with NerdyAarakocra - it can only work on the Emerald Sea. I didn't find any quote saying that the core is empty, contrary, Xisis residence is at the bottom of a spore sea and Ulaam claims that he and Hoid can survive walking at the bottom of seas as well. The oceans clearly have a bottom. Tress ch 47:

Quote

“If we don’t get out of the Crimson soon,” Tress said, “the ship could end up sinking. That would kill you too.”
“Assumptions, assumptions,” Ulaam said, walking to the steps. “Hoid is immortal, and I am nearly so. While I don’t relish the idea of walking across the bottom of the spore sea to reach safety—particularly with him tagging along in his current state—that is not outside my abilities.”

 

Spoiler

Cheyenne Sedai

What research about the aethers is Xisis hoarding?

Brandon Sanderson

His biggest interest is how aethers break down, and he's really researching the water cycle, and trying to figure out how the seethe happens, because he's very interested in the decomposition of aethers, which is what's causing the seethe. That's what he is hoarding there.

[...]

 

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

We have WoBs on this, but unfortunately Brandon doesn't have a scientifically grounded reason for it, he went with creating a cool fantasy world instead of basing everything in science. The seethe is only partially made by decomposition of all spores in the depths and it's involved in the water cycle as well. This means all spores have to decompose, releasing water which has to rise back into the atmosphere to replenish clouds - the water can't be trapped under the ocean infinitely fueling seethe.

Your idea explains well how the seethe on the Emerald Sea is made - the activated Verdant spores that grew into vines decompose, which causes their sugar to break down into water, oxygen and carbon dioxide, which all rise up back to the surface, contributing to the water cycle and possibly fueling the decomposition of unactivated spores (as they also have to be broken down). But how this is happening with Crimson, Roseite or Midnight spores is unknown - I doubt we will get the explanation, especially that investiture is involved in this as well (spores and Aethers kind of are investiture just like god metals are).

Spoiler

Zabeesh

If the moons are constantly pouring out spores, how do the oceans not fill up? Do they degrade eventually, or is there another method?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they degrade eventually. I'll be perfectly frank with you: my science on this, I have not gone to all of my normal science routes. The only one of the Secret Projects that we did a lot of the scientific work on is Four, because of how tied into the rest of the Cosmere it is. I have some sort of plausible wiggle room on Book One, because Hoid is telling the story, and he can get some things wrong.

Where I am right now is: the seethe is partially involved in the way that the spores degrade. And that's part of what causes it; you've got this decomposition of a fantastical sort happening deep down, and that that is causing the seethe. But I have not run the science on this.

All of my books straddle on this continuum between fully scientific and fully fantastical. And I tend to sit over on this side [scientific], where Stormlight, I'm gonna work out all of these things. But I write fantasy, and once in a while I want to stray into the whimsical. And I purposefully did it on Tress; I'm gonna push the boundaries of what I can do and still have it be reasonable that it could exist with fantastical resources, and go kind of as far whimsical as I feel comfortable doing.

That isn't to say that you should consider this non-canon; it is absolutely canon. But what it means is, I didn't start with "what's the science of this?" I started with "what is the really interesting story I want to tell, and let's tell the story there." And if it comes down that the science just can't work; well, the answer is: "A wizard did it." I have enough access to fantastical explanations for the things that happen that I can make this work." But it is me pushing the boundaries of that.

So, know that I've got general impressions. Such as: spores are degrading. The way that they're degrading is actually causing the seethe. Much in a kind of an accelerated version of how methane comes up through decomposition, and that's what we're doing. But the water cycle is really tricky; I have some instincts on how that works, but I'm not even gonna talk about them, because I don't wanna canonize that, 'cause the water cycle's a really tricky thing on this planet, in particular.

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

We have these moons [on Lumar], they're so very large, you have the seas that look and function so differently. Is it like an atmospheric bubble they're in? How does it work when you cross from one sea to the other. The spores are touching, there's different coloring, how does that section off so distinctly?

Brandon Sanderson

So it's kind of interesting, I kind of got some of this, the way I look at these seas, from real world oceans where two wave forms meet, saltwater and non saltwater meeting. And there's actually kind of a weirdly regular line between them that gets maintained. (And obviously, then, they mix, because they're both just water.) But that line was really fascinating to me.

What's going on in my mind (and I haven't run this past the Arcanists), but the idea is that enough is falling from these spores, that as they're kind of mixing, they're also kind of going down underenath, and you've got the decomposition of the spores (which is part of what's causing the seethe) and all of these sorts of things.

They do kind of mix. The line, it would look pretty regular from someone standing up on a ship and looking at it. But if you got close, you'd see more spore mixing and even blending pretty far in. But, then those spores are getting pushed underneath by the new spores that are coming, and the new layers, and then those spores are dying off at the bottom of the ocean and things like that.

That's how I'm doing it in my head, at least how I'm justifying getting that kind of creepy line that you get, even in the real world between different bodies of water meeting. But, again, I haven't run that past the Arcanists. That's how it's working in my head.

Miscellaneous 2023 (March 30, 2023)

 

[Dragonheir he/him]

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I didn't find any quote saying that the core is empty, contrary, Xisis residence is at the bottom of a spore sea and Ulaam claims that he and Hoid can survive walking at the bottom of seas as well.

It may have been a theory from the site, rather than a factual statement. I think you have just killed my theory. That being said, even if this isn’t the process in the seethe, it could still be used by dwellers of the spore seas in a fremen (I think that’s how you spell the guys from Dune) like apparatus, which pulls in zephyr and verdant aether to eat and breathe, then condensing the water to drink and activate more aether.