Lord Ruler Chromium Compounding Theory

[MilaMayhem]

Hi all, thanks for having me, I created this account to share this one.

I was just having some fun the other day thinking about different types of compounders and it hit me that as a full Feruchemist and Mistborn the Lord Ruler had infinite amounts of Feruchemical power. I always knew this but it really really hit me, so there is no way Vin should have been able to beat him in Era 1, the guy was god tier powerful. Instead, I have a theory that the Lord Ruler essentially killed himself by accident, through the blind use of Chromium Compounding.

There are a couple of caveats to this theory. It works on the basis that as the Lord Ruler had access to all the Era 1 'hidden' metals from his knowledge gained whilst in the Well of Accension, so he would have been always compounding the full range of feruchemical abilities, even if he hadn't let the metals enter circulation or wider knowledge like he did with Aluminium. Including Chromium, which whilst I'm sure would have been crazy rare in Era 1 like Aluminium, you only need to make/find a little chunk to make a metalmind.

Second caveat is that with Chromium Compounding I'm running on a general consensus on these threads that compounding for Fortune works a bit like Felix Felicis in Harry Potter. It is an internal ability like all Feruchemy, so can't change what is actually happening in the world, but rather would nudge you through life in such a way that always leads to achieving your goals. Most people on the threads believe that this would grant a type of quasi-luck-based-immortality.

Yet, I disagree. The Lord Ruler's goal in Era 1? To put a permanent stop to the destructive power of Ruin. If he was always compounding Chromium to achieve his goals, this then leads to the conclusion that the Chromium enacted some kind of unintentional weird suicide, as if wherever the power of Fortune comes from (another discussion I won't go into here) knew he could never personally achieve that goal.

Why? Because his goal was eventually achieved. He could only take the power of Preservation in the Well of Accension, and as Preservation could never have destroyed Ruin as it was against the shards nature, his Chromium Compounding pushed his Fortune towards his own death, and allowed Vin to kill him, in order for the events to unfold that led to Harmonies accension.

So, Chromium Compounding wouldn't lead to lucky immortality. If Fortune were to decide that the best way to achieve your goal was your own death, the Chromium would accidentally push you in that direction. Something to think about.
 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, MilaMayhem said:

Hi all, thanks for having me, I created this account to share this one.

I was just having some fun the other day thinking about different types of compounders and it hit me that as a full Feruchemist and Mistborn the Lord Ruler had infinite amounts of Feruchemical power. I always knew this but it really really hit me, so there is no way Vin should have been able to beat him in Era 1, the guy was god tier powerful. Instead, I have a theory that the Lord Ruler essentially killed himself by accident, through the blind use of Chromium Compounding.

There are a couple of caveats to this theory. It works on the basis that as the Lord Ruler had access to all the Era 1 'hidden' metals from his knowledge gained whilst in the Well of Accension, so he would have been always compounding the full range of feruchemical abilities, even if he hadn't let the metals enter circulation or wider knowledge like he did with Aluminium. Including Chromium, which whilst I'm sure would have been crazy rare in Era 1 like Aluminium, you only need to make/find a little chunk to make a metalmind.

Second caveat is that with Chromium Compounding I'm running on a general consensus on these threads that compounding for Fortune works a bit like Felix Felicis in Harry Potter. It is an internal ability like all Feruchemy, so can't change what is actually happening in the world, but rather would nudge you through life in such a way that always leads to achieving your goals. Most people on the threads believe that this would grant a type of quasi-luck-based-immortality.

Yet, I disagree. The Lord Ruler's goal in Era 1? To put a permanent stop to the destructive power of Ruin. If he was always compounding Chromium to achieve his goals, this then leads to the conclusion that the Chromium enacted some kind of unintentional weird suicide, as if wherever the power of Fortune comes from (another discussion I won't go into here) knew he could never personally achieve that goal.

Why? Because his goal was eventually achieved. He could only take the power of Preservation in the Well of Accension, and as Preservation could never have destroyed Ruin as it was against the shards nature, his Chromium Compounding pushed his Fortune towards his own death, and allowed Vin to kill him, in order for the events to unfold that led to Harmonies accension.

So, Chromium Compounding wouldn't lead to lucky immortality. If Fortune were to decide that the best way to achieve your goal was your own death, the Chromium would accidentally push you in that direction. Something to think about.

Interesting theory. It's possible but I doubt that's what happened.

Yes, Vin should not have been able to kill Rashek, and indeed on her own she was unable to - only due to direct intervention of the Mists, which were Preservation's essence, Vin could have killed Rashek, Without the Mists, Vin would have died. It was literally a deus ex machina.

You can infinitely compound only if you have enough metal. You still need to burn metal to compound, you have to have a tone of Chromium to compound it a lot of Fortune - not a tiny bit. Chromium was an unknown metal back then, nobody knew it even existed, it was very rare. Rashek would be aware of it and its Metallic Arts properties from his Ascension, he might be able to even make some chromium with the power of the Well for himself, or knew where to find it, but he didn't have it on him when he died. Vin&co found Rashek's bracers and sold Atium from it. If his metalminds were containing unknown metals, Sazed and Vin would have immediately spotted them and become aware of the existence of another base metal. This didn't happen. This means that Rashek didn't have any chromium, or any other unknown metal on him and for a good reason, as Inquisitor's steel sight alone would be able to recognize the type of a metal by lines its creating - Rashek had to keep those metals in secret even from his Inquisitors. Rashek wasn't tapping Fortune from chromium when he died.

Feruchemical chromium stores Fortune, which more or less works how you described it (as far as we know), but it doesn't take away your agency. You still have to decide on your own to move in the direction Fortune is pointing towards. It's more like a gut feeling, without knowing what's happening or why - you can ignore your instincts or follow them. You decide. Atium also involves Fortune. If Rashek were to burn it with duralumin, he would have the same effect as Elend at the end of HoA - he would peer directly into the Spiritual Realm and see all he wants. That's much more than chromium has to offer without trying to find any chromium and hiding it from everyone. My point is Rashek didn't need to use chromium as he could have been using Atium+duralumin to peer directly into the future - intent would likely matter and he might be able to see only what he's intent wants. That's why he might have missed the possibility of him being killed by Vin. 

I don't think Rashek's goal would have been to permanently stop Ruin. I think it would have been to remain in control. All of his actions during those 1000 years of his life were to ensure he had full control over everything that's happening in the Empire. He wasn't that selfless, he was a tyrant. 

Rashek was living for 1000 years in isolation and hearing constant noises from Ruin. He was tired, more than it's humanly possible. And bored. He wasn't mentally stable. He knew there is no person on Scadrial that can threaten his position, he was only afraid of a natural Fullborn being born, but his Terris breeding program assured him that he's in control. Rashek didn't expect Ruin to dethrone him with a Skaa rebellion. All of this contributed to his fate. His power meant nothing when he severely underestimated Vin and didn't take her seriously. Truthfully it's not his fault, he couldn't have predicted that Vin would draw the power from Mists directly, that Vin was touched and chosen by Preservation directly to become its Vessel. That was outside of his control. All of this compounded to his failure of killing Vin.

WoA ch 3:

Spoiler

They had found some small bit—the atium that had made up the bracers that the Lord Ruler had used as a Feruchemical battery to store up age. However, they had spent those on supplies for the city, and they had actually contained only a very small bit of atium

WoBs:

Spoiler

Titan Arum

Can iron/steelsight lines be used to identify specific metals? If yes, for only savants?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible. Not just savants.

General Signed Books 2016 (Dec. 23, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So, in Allomancy, most of the metals are in pairs, they're equal and opposite, pushing and pulling, Rioting, Soothing, that kind of thing. The god metals have always-- lerasium and atium, have always struck me as kind of unbalanced in a way. Like, lerasium gives you the power to use all these metals, plus atium being one of them. Is there a reason for that?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is, and it kinda has to do with Snapping and some of the fundamental rules of the Mistborn world and the fact that people have Preservation and Ruin inside of them and all these sorts of things. So, the answer is yes.

Partially, narratively, I built that in partially just 'cause I wanted atium to seem odd in the placement, right, when people got to it it's like "What? Why is this one-- This one doesn't match the others. This doesn't really work." When I was building Mistborn, one of the big things I wanted was this idea of a periodic table that was, kind of a flawed construct, that, as you read the books, you came to understand better and better. And that was something I executed-- I don't think I executed that 100% right, but I'm pleased with the general concept and how it plays out. And so I wanted atium to stick out like a sore thumb.

The other thing is, I knew I needed some good foreshadowing for Fortune, for people being able to kinda see the future or versions of the future, for the whole cosmere to work. And, so, I built in atium specifically to do those things. And I built in lerasium to have, kind of, the ultimate sort of benevolent endowment sort of thing. (Not Endowment the Shard, you know what I mean.) But I also wanted to show these two magics were intrinsically tied together on Scadrial because the way that humankind was created. We're getting into some deep stuff, I'll just leave it there. But that was what was going through my mind as I was building those things all out. 

Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Wigginns

What would a Hemalurgic spike granting atium do for an Allomancer already able to burn atium? Does it function similarly to bronze, granting enhanced atium-ing? Along this line of thought, would enhancing electrum burning via spike be of any advantage?

Brandon Sanderson

A spike of something you have would enhance your ability, giving your more strength. With atium, more strength makes for a minimal edge--the length you can push out the atium shadows. However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the [Spiritual Realm], and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment.

Electrum could reach this same moment, potentially, though there's more interference to fight through. Extra strength in electrum isn't going to be terribly useful up to that point.

Alsadius

Is that what happened when atium was burned with duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Footnote: In his original response Brandon mistakenly said burning atium and duralumin would cause the Allomancer to peer into the Cognitive Realm, rather than Spiritual Realm. He has since confirmed that this was a mistake.
/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 1, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Sylos

I was happy when Elend finally burned duralumin with atium. I was holding my breath hoping that someone would eventually do it. However we didn't really get any info as to what Elend experienced. Does a duralumin-enhanced atium burn allow a person to see significantly farther into the future? If so, being that Elend's army was dying all around him did he get to see into the afterlife? Also if you could tell us what he saw that would be awesome. Did something he saw make him not want to avoid Marshes strike?

On a similar note if someone burned electrum with duralumin would they get to see significantly into their own future?

Brandon Sanderson

There is much here that I can't say, but I'll give as much as I can. Elend saw Preservation's ultimate plan, and Elend's own part in it. What he saw made him realize he didn't want to kill Marsh, and that his own death would actually help save the world. Like a master chess player, he suddenly saw and understand every possible move his enemy could make. He saw that Ruin was check-mated, because there was one thing that Ruin was not willing to do. Something that both Elend and Vin could do, if needed. And it's what they did.

So, in answer to your question, Elend stayed his hand. This is one of the reasons why I changed my mind and decided that Marsh had to live through the end of the book. Elend spared him; I needed to too.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Seventy-Nine

The Mists Chose Someone

There's a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the author of these epigraphs knows. Reasons why Vin was chosen, and why the power of Preservation needed a new mind to control it.

The author is right in that Preservation did need someone to control its power, and it did seek for a host in which to invest itself. It began this search with what mind it had left about sixteen years before the return of the power to the Well of Ascension, just as it began a search for a new host before the return of the power the previous time.

Unfortunately, just as Ruin took control and manipulated Alendi, he took control and manipulated Vin.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (May 13, 2010)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

"Then you have doomed us all."

We can finally explain the Lord Ruler's final quote, given at the end of book one and then quoted again in this chapter. "You don't know what you've done," he said. "You've doomed yourselves." (Or, at least, something like that. I hate it when I misquote myself, but it happens a lot.)

He knew that the power would soon return to the Well, and he'd been planning how to resist Ruin. Yet he knew that Ruin would try something—something to stop him, to destroy him. The Lord Ruler wasn't expecting it to come in the form of a rebellion to overthrow his empire and kill him, but he was expecting something.

And so, as he lay dying, he realized what had happened. He knew that Ruin must have orchestrated it—the timing was too perfect. He knew what was coming, and that it would probably mean the end of the world.

Doomed indeed. Another nice connection back to previous books here with Vin's quoting of that.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (March 4, 2010)

SA spoilers WoB:

Spoiler

Bobby2797

You once said that you want to explore in your books how humans change in their behavior and personality when living several hundred or a thousand years. Many of these characters in your books go mad: for example, the Heralds or the Lord Ruler. But still, Hoid seems as "normal" as someone can be after such a long time. Is there any reason why he didn't become "mad"?

Brandon Sanderson

It's more that what happened to the others, something is wrong, if that makes sense. What's going with the Heralds, the supernatural madness of the Heralds is related to their specific situation. With the Lord Ruler, I don't think what happened to the Lord Ruler... His is a really interesting situation. I would say that it is not supernatural; it is his isolationist attitude, the pressures placed upon him, and things like that. It's a very normal type of mental... I don't want to call it mental illness, but you know what I mean. A conventional mental illness, if you will, exacerbated by extreme periods spent alone and isolating self. And that's where you get what happened to him.

YouTube Livestream 39 (Feb. 1, 2022)

HoA epilogue epigraph:

Quote

Vin was special.

Preservation chose her from a very young age, as I have mentioned. I believe that he was grooming her to take his power. Yet, the mind of Preservation was very weak at that point, reduced only to the fragment that we knew as the mist spirit.

What made him choose this girl? Was it because she was a Mistborn? Was it because she had Snapped so early in life, coming to her powers even as she went through the pains of the unusually difficult labor her mother went through to bear her?

Vin was unusually talented and strong with Allomancy, even from the beginning. I believe that she must have drawn some of the mist into her when she was still a child, in those brief times when she wasn't wearing the earring. Preservation had mostly gotten her to stop wearing it by the time Kelsier recruited her, though she put it back in for a moment before joining the crew. Then, she'd left it there at his suggestion.

Nobody else could draw upon the mists. I have determined this. Why were they open to Vin and not others? I suspect that she couldn't have taken them all in until after she'd touched the power at the Well of Ascension. It was always meant, I believe, to be something of an attuning force. Something that, once touched, would adjust a person's body to be able to accept the mists.

Yet, she did make use of a small crumb of Preservation's power when she defeated the Lord Ruler, a year before she even began hearing the thumping of the power's return to the Well.

There is much more to this mystery. Perhaps I will tease it out eventually, as my mind grows more and more accustomed to its expanded nature. Perhaps I will determine why I was able to take the powers myself. For now, I only wish to make a simple acknowledgment of the woman who held the power just before me.

Of all of us who touched it, I feel she was the most worthy.

 

Edited May 14 by alder24

[MilaMayhem]

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It's more like a gut feeling, without knowing what's happening or why

For the record - I agree with you - and all the holes you picked in my theory especially looking into the future directly with Atium+Duralumin I had already picked myself, plus I do believe the Lord Ruler being killed by Vin was a result of his own hubris. I just thought it was an interesting thought exercise, especially as the solid information I could find for Chromium Compounding seems thin on the ground.

But its easy to say, yourself included, that if a gut feeling told you to act a certain way, and you'd been blindly following that gut feeling with positive results for 1000 years, that feeling could trick you into your own death if that's what achieving a particular goal required. You always trust your gut, right?

[alder24]

6 hours ago, MilaMayhem said:

But its easy to say, yourself included, that if a gut feeling told you to act a certain way, and you'd been blindly following that gut feeling with positive results for 1000 years, that feeling could trick you into your own death if that's what achieving a particular goal required. You always trust your gut, right?

Yup, I would. Like I said, it's an interesting theory indeed, it might have worked like that if Rashek was using chromium. But just to be clear, rather than saying "kill yourself," the gut feeling would say him "meh, she isn't worth your attention."

[Isilel]

Honestly, the whole thing with TLR keeping _all_ his feruchemical storages in those bracelets never sat well with me, particularly since we had heard about the alleged decapitation incident before that scene.

TLR was known for wearing earrings and other jewelry, you'd think that even if it didn't occur to him to implant storages, like they do in era 2, he would have worn distributed atium, gold and steel  metalminds at the very least. 

I do think that it is theoretically possible that he could have had a stockpile of chromium produced at some point during his millennium-long tenure, then executed everyone involved and compounded Fortune into it. He could have hidden it beneath the other metals of his bracers so that the Inquisitors wouldn't see it. Frankly, that's another can of worms, because the Inquisitors should have been able to see the other metals in his bracers and been able to deduce the source of his power.

The biggest problem with your suggestion, @MilaMayhem is that TLR wasn't taking the fight seriously and wasn't tapping even his more conventional powers, such as speed. So, even if he had Fortune to tap, why would he?

But the idea itself is great - it wouldn't surprise me if something along these lines happens to someone (ab)using Fortune in the future. Maybe even Hoid?