Can you have multible gemhearts?

[Sythrin]

Basically my question. For example through Hemalurgy or maybe as a mutation like people having 6 fingers. Or maybe if your gemheart split from injury.

Could you than have multiple forms?

[Quantus]

If mutation and forced things like Hemalurgy are on the table, probably, but like growing an extra limb via DNA modification I think making it functional would be a higher (but still attainable) goal.  A Shard could just Do It, and the Nightwatcher probably could too.  Any Selish Magic that doesnt have some specific limitation (like Forgery's likelihood requirement) could probably do it since they theoretically reprogram reality with complex languages.  There's also that one UnMade that essentially transforms you into a giant gemheart.  

If you can make it fully functional, you'd be able to hold/trap two Spren.  But Singer's need the Investiture abundance of the Highstorm to actually affect the Form change, for that purpose it probably wouldnt do more than just keep it trapped and ready like it was stored in an external gem.  On the other hand, if one was normal and one was a Voidspren, you might get the ability to attune either set of Rhythms and control the Red glow of your eyes like Venli does (assuming that doesnt require a dominant Radiant Spren). 

[+hwiles]

I think @Quantus has the golden answer already on this one, but i would just add that the risk for extreme dysfunctional mental illness and emotional collapse resulting from attempting to bind multiple spren, which are embodiment of forces of nature, into a single soul should probably not be ignored for anyone considering attempting hemalurgic experimentation on Singers and Listeners. They would be more likely to create an uncontrollable monster that runs impossibly hot until it kills itself than a construct that "works" in any meaningful way. Not saying it's impossible, it would simply be extremely horrifying in all likelihood.

[Treamayne]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:07 AM, Sythrin said:

Basically my question. For example through Hemalurgy or maybe as a mutation like people having 6 fingers. Or maybe if your gemheart split from injury.

Could you than have multiple forms?

I doubt the number or type of Gemheart has any bearing on the Forms. For a Singer (Listener, Parshendi) the Form is a part of the Nahel Bond with a specific Spren. A similar Nahel bond that is used by Greatshells, Skyeels, etc. Rhyshadium have a Nahel Bond as well, but do not have a gemheart (or not confirmed to have one at any rate, since they are descended from Horses) and Radiants have a Nahel Bond without a Gemheart. Some Rosharan beings have the same chemistry, but no developed "gemheart" at all. 

The Formation of a Gemheart is, at least partly, about the Spiritweb and how a being is connected to Roshar and Rosharan Ecology. As for multiple Forms. we see that Venli has two Nahel Bonds, but only one Form (her EnvoyForm), and we have been told that having multiple Nahel Bonds requires the permission/(possibly coerced) acceptance of the Spren involved (Shallan/Venli). 

Part of this is what do you mean by "two forms:"

• Do you mean a hybrid (like Part NimbleForm/part WarForm)?
• Do you mean having access to two separate forms and being able to switch (either at-will, or at the Spren's bidding)

(Lots of) WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Viper (paraphrased)

The gemhearts/stormgems/whatever that are grown inside the beasts in Way of Kings ... is that the same as the way atium is grown inside geodes in the Pits of Hathsin?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's similar. The Pits are an area where there's like a leak from the Spiritual Realm into the Physical. That's what happens there.

A Memory of Light Milford Signing (Feb. 16, 2013)

Quote

Questioner

Is it only greatshells that have gemhearts, or do all crustaceans on Roshar have some sort of gem inside? And if it is only greatshells then are their unique decayspren related to this fact?

Brandon:

They're not only greatshells, but not every crustacean has a gemheart, at least not of the style that would be of any relevance to you. Some have the same sort of chemistry going on in their body, they're just too small to have it coalesce into a gemheart. And the gemheart is related to how-- particularly the greatshells, can grow to get so big.

Salt Lake ComicCon FanX 2016 (March 26, 2016)

Quote

Questioner

I was wondering, in Stormlight, what kind of gem the [singer] gemhearts were, or do they just, do they hold Stormlight well?

Brandon Sanderson

So, this is a good question. This is one that people have been asking me since the first book, if they had one, and I've finally kind of confirmed it in book three. So the reason people don't think [singers] have a gemheart is it is milky white, and looks like bone.

Questioner

But aren't their bones red?

Brandon Sanderson

Their bones, well-- Their bones are red-- not completely. If you're going to pull out the bone, what you're going to see-- I'll explain it in the next book. So what you're going to do is, if you break open the bone, you're going to find this white-- It's not marrow but it is, yeah I guess it's marrow. Anyway at the center kind of in their sternum there is a gemheart there, but it is fused to the bone and it is grown into the bone, and you have to kind of snap it open and find it inside, and it kind of just looks like marrow, but there's a gemheart in there. And it kind of relates to some stuff in Dragonsteel that I'm not gonna get into. But you'll see in the next books. But there's a good reason people just don't think that [singers] have a gemheart. 

Questioner

So they must not glow much then, I'm assuming.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, well, it's surrounded by bone. So it's a different special thing. We'll bring it out in the following books. It might not be the next one.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

Quote

Snipexe

Could you spike the ability to grow a gemheart out of a singer?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I think you could. Yeah.

The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018)

Quote

Shqueeves

Do humans with singer ancestry have vestigial gemhearts?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Good question.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

Quote

Questioner

Where do gemhearts come from?

Brandon Sanderson

They grow naturally, just like your fingernails grow.

Questioner

Where do they get the resources?

Brandon Sanderson

The rain that falls on Roshar is [hard] water, full of crem that crystalizes. If you drink that water, it gives you the nutrients that you need to make gemhearts.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Quote

Questioner

The Ryshadium mounts. Are they actually-- Is there an actual bond, like the Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

They are slightly Invested through a symbiotic relationship on Roshar that gives them better-than-average animal intelligence.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 22, 2017)

Quote

Questioner

Does Gallant's eyes being rainbow have any cosmere significance?

Brandon Sanderson

It is an indication of his spren bond; it's a way that I was getting across that. A lot of times, when you see kind of mother-of-pearl or a rainbow shimmer of luminescence, that is an indication of something happening with Investiture in the cosmere. You'll see it in White Sand being used; you see it periodically in manifestations of the Nahel bond, and that sort of thing.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

Quote

Questioner

What effects does a spren bond have on a Ryshadium? Sapience, or more?

Brandon Sanderson

It increases their intelligence a great deal and gives them a little extra hardiness to survive in Roshar. And in exchange, the spren gets pulled into the Physical Realm, which they really like.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

Quote

Hoiditthroughthegrapevine

If we spiked a singer with Feruchemical nicrosil, could he store the spren he's bonded to and lose form in the process? Could he bond another spren then? Could he then change forms at will by carefully storing and tapping nicrosil?

Brandon Sanderson (written)

RAFO

General Signed Books 2018 (April 17, 2018)

Quote

Questioner

What happens to the spren the Parshendi bond when they switch form? So say if they're in soldier form, and they switch over to mate, what happens to that spren?

Brandon Sanderson

The spren is released.

Questioner

So when they took on void, they didn't kill their previous spren?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they don't kill when they-- No. That's a good question. Nope.

Questioner

Do those spren evolve in any way into something else?

Brandon Sanderson

Those spren that they are bonding with are generally what we call non-sapient spren, and so, no, and also the spren are barely aware that they-- they're bonded--- those spren, the non-voidspren, right? Like when they're bonding, generally what's happening is how... It's a symbiotic relationship, right? And the spren that gets bonded to them, it's just kind of like, "Oh, this is my life now! This is just normal. This is what's happened." The same thing happens with spren involved in greatshells and things like this. This is a natural part of the natural cycle for those spren.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

Hope that helps

Edited April 23 by Treamayne
SPAG