Anti-Investitures Vs The States of Matter

[UltimateArchivist He/Him]

As of yet, we have seen examples of investiture in the four states of matter; solid (God Metals), liquid (Perpendicularity pools), gaseous (Ruin's smoke underneath Kredik Shaw), and plasmic (Gemstone Lights). However, we have only seen Anti-Investitures in the plasmic form in Anti-Voidlight and Anti-Stormlight.

I'm assuming you are all following the same path I did?

But how would solid investitures mix? Would it be similar to chemistry, where two solids are inert unless "dissolved" in a solution, perhaps of an unkeyed investiture? "Investiture Chemistry?

Let's discuss!

[Quantus he/him]

 Justo clarify, the Lights are classified as Gaseous Investiture, though the Lights do exhibit properties of both waveform and matter (specifically a gas) when not invested in a person or object.  

Though the Dor is described as a plasma storm that's confirmed to have moved to it's own state of matter.

 

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Blaze1616

The Dor: Is it gaseous Investiture or is it something else completely?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh that's a great question. People have not been asking enough about the Dor.

Blaze1616

And if it is gaseous—or not gaseous—is it plasma?

Brandon Sanderson

*Long pause*

You got it. *said definitively*

It's super sup-- not plasm-- yeah, it's super-dense to the point that's it's liquefied and dense-- does that make sense? So it's plasma, basically. It's its own weird thing, so yeah. What you can write is that it's its own weird thing that's kind of plasma-like.

Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015)

 

 

[UltimateArchivist He/Him]

17 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Justo clarify, the Lights are classified as Gaseous Investiture, though the Lights do exhibit properties of both waveform and matter (specifically a gas) when not invested in a person or object.  

Yes, and neither Lights nor the Dor exhibit typical properties of plasma, such as the 50,000 degrees Kelvin temperature necessary to reach that state. Typically I refer to plasma in an investiture form as a thicker gas, exactly like Lights. Thanks for the clarification! Does anyone else have any input?

[Quantus he/him]

47 minutes ago, UltimateArchivist said:

Yes, and neither Lights nor the Dor exhibit typical properties of plasma, such as the 50,000 degrees Kelvin temperature necessary to reach that state. Typically I refer to plasma in an investiture form as a thicker gas, exactly like Lights. Thanks for the clarification! Does anyone else have any input?

The Dor exists in a massive investiture equivalent of a gravity well enough to cause time dilation, so I think it's getting there more through a pressure-adjacent mechanism than just raw temperatures, more akin to an actual star than an electric arc.  

 

Spoiler

 

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Jeremy

If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that.

That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people.

The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021)

 

 

We know it's possible to "refine" it into a more stable solid form, though we dont know who actually did that work, how, or even if it was done by a single magic system or some worldhopper hacks.  I personally hope it's the result of the mysterious Dor-based Potion magic system, since I love the idea of a potion/alchemy-based "Programming Language for reality" and I selfishly want it to show back up.  

LTM definitely delves into this overall topic but I think it also shows that the reactions are going to have non-trivial individual nuance for each Shard's investiture.  But the Pure Tones are a common response so I suspect all of them will react to frequencies in some form (be those audible sound, light&color, or even the natural reaction frequencies of the metals.  To the question of what it takes to mix them, I suspect that will relay heavily on the Investment status of the Shard(s).  For example, it should be easier (maybe unavoidable) to mix Investitures once the Shards are Invested in the same world (Roshar and scadrial are both case studies here).  Other times the nature of the Shard's Investiture itself might encourage or reject mixing with others (ex. Lerasium vs Trellium). 

 

[UltimateArchivist He/Him]

Yes, I agree! Pressure is definitely a possibility. Do you think that this means that Dor outside of the Cognitive Realm takes on more liquid attributes? And how would this factor in with Anti-Investiture? Such stimulating conversation!

[alder24]

21 hours ago, UltimateArchivist said:

But how would solid investitures mix? Would it be similar to chemistry, where two solids are inert unless "dissolved" in a solution, perhaps of an unkeyed investiture? "Investiture Chemistry?

I guess they just need to touch. Just like Antimatter needs to just touch matter it will interact and annihilate. 

However Brandon did state that physical form of investiture is more resilient to gaseous anti-investiture. But also that trying to ingest solid anti-investiture would be like pouring molten metal into your mouth - it would destroy your soul. So we don't know in the end. I would say touching is enough if both investiture and anti-investiture are in the same state, or anti-investiture is in the denser state. 

Spoiler

TopicCharming2157

Living Shardblades are the physical manifestation of spren. If Moash had used Raboniel's anti-Stormlight charged dagger to stab a spren while in Shardblade form, would it kill the spren? (Like Kaladin forming a Syl shield to guard a stab)

Brandon Sanderson

Physical form of a spren is going to be more resilient to this.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested anti-lerasium or anti-atium, assuming they don't explode?

Brandon Sanderson

If you are not highly Invested yourself, and you get the anti[-Investiture], it's not gonna be a fun time. You won't explode, but it will kill you, almost assuredly. Not a fun time, but not an explosively not-a-fun-time, just a regular old not-a-fun-time. Maybe a little bit like pouring molten metal down your throat.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

18 hours ago, UltimateArchivist said:

Yes, I agree! Pressure is definitely a possibility. Do you think that this means that Dor outside of the Cognitive Realm takes on more liquid attributes?

Well, we've seen Dor outside of Sel and it's a liquid.