Who is your favourite character in SA?

[Hari]

I guess that's because his character is most inspiring than anyone else in the book.. the way he keeps to his word, his courageousness, his willingness to help others all the same time battling his own flaws..  besides he is not super intelligent like Jasnah or Shallan and that makes him more understandable..

[Marmota]

I guess that's because his character is most inspiring than anyone else in the book.. the way he keeps to his word, his courageousness, his willingness to help others all the same time battling his own flaws..  besides he is not super intelligent like Jasnah or Shallan and that makes him more understandable..

 

I guess different people value different stuff. Some things that you up are the very same reasons i dont like kaladin that much.

I just thought that people would prefer other ones, like Dalinar for example. ( I voted Szeth)

[Daxos]

In addition to what Hari said, Kaladin's character resonates the most with the majority of us because he's been the one that has both initially and most closely adhered to the Hero's Journey/Monomyth archetype.  He is a profoundly sympathetic character in the first book who is also it's most clearly defined and fully developed hero.  Therefore it's not just total "screen time" that has made Kaladin the most appealing protagonist in SA thus far but his descent and ascent through the various stages of the archetypal journey.  In fact, I'd argue that his character has followed them so closely as to be a case study.  It's a tried and true formula for creating memorable, sympathetic characters and stories that deeply resonate with the reader/audience because they reflect universal archetypes and concerns that are rooted in the collective unconscious of the human mind.

[lol_king]

Kaladin is also the only darkeyed/unprivilaged main character and radiant (except maybe lift, but she's in the back 5) who had to work for everything he has, if he's moping around i think he has earned the right to do so. He went from spearman to squadleader, bridgeman to captian because of his skill and dedication.

Unlike adolin and dalinar who were made commanders just because they were born lighteyes (of high rank).

That said, my favorite character is jasnah because she is just so damnation intelligent (and cool). And also an atheist.

I hope both of them hook up...

Edited October 21, 2014 by lol_king

[maxal]

In addition to what Hari said, Kaladin's character resonates the most with the majority of us because he's been the one that has both initially and most closely adhered to the Hero's Journey/Monomyth archetype.  He is a profoundly sympathetic character in the first book who is also it's most clearly defined and fully developed hero.  Therefore it's not just total "screen time" that has made Kaladin the most appealing protagonist in SA thus far but his descent and ascent through the various stages of the archetypal journey.  In fact, I'd argue that his character has followed them so closely as to be a case study.  It's a tried and true formula for creating memorable, sympathetic characters and stories that deeply resonate with the reader/audience because they reflect universal archetypes and concerns that are rooted in the collective unconscious of the human mind.

 

I thought Kaladin was sympathetic in WoK, but not in WoR. In WoR, he got on my nerves immensely and I would have rather he had less screen time then he did. I believe our relation with character depends on the kind of person we are, in real life, and the qualities we are rewarding in others. I adored him in WoK, but there are things Kaladin did in WoR that rebutted me: the constant mopping, the judging people based on eye color only, the thinking Dalinar could somehow take his Radiant powers from him, etc.

 

That being said, I tend to be attracted to a different kind of character. It does not mean I do not like Kal, it means he is not my favorite. I do hope he'll get less screen time as I do think other character deserves a better spotlight.

 

 

Kaladin is also the only darkeyed/unprivilaged main character and radiant (except maybe lift, but she's in the back 5) who had to work for everything he has, if he's moping around i think he has earned the right to do so. He went from spearman to squadleader, bridgeman to captian because of his skill and dedication.

Unlike adolin and dalinar who were made commanders just because they were born lighteyes (of high rank).

 

That is not entirely fair towards Adolin and Dalinar who have both proven to be clever tacticians and good leaders despite their privileged life, better so than Kaladin, in my humble opinion.

[Daxos]

I thought Kaladin was sympathetic in WoK, but not in WoR. In WoR, he got on my nerves immensely and I would have rather he had less screen time then he did. I believe our relation with character depends on the kind of person we are, in real life, and the qualities we are rewarding in others. I adored him in WoK, but there are things Kaladin did in WoR that rebutted me: the constant mopping, the judging people based on eye color only, the thinking Dalinar could somehow take his Radiant powers from him, etc.

 

I agree to an extent, which is why I specified "in the first book".  However, as I said in my other post in this thread, I feel like he redeemed himself at the end of WoR.  Sometimes his bitterness, paranoia, and brooding in WoR got to me a bit as well but his character in WoK really is one of my favorites in all of fiction and therefore I was pretty tolerant and forgiving throughout the second book only to feel rewarded at the end.  

 

I'd like to think that we'll see Kaladin become more like the character we both enjoyed from the first book now that he's finally been able to reveal what he is and therefore doesn't feel like he has to go around hiding it.  I think his close brush with losing Syl, his growing trust in Dalinar and Adolin, and possibly even the emergence of other Radiants may also play a role in changing him for the better.  The latter might give him the opportunity to assume more of the role he took in WoK, although I think his obsessive worrying about the welfare of those under his command was a contributing factor to some of his moods.  That's a heavy burden for anyone to impose upon themselves so hopefully he'll learn how to deal with it better.     

Edited October 22, 2014 by Daxos

[Hari]

Kaladin is someone who has gone through a lot in his teen years despite being a decent and good nature kid..  he lost his beloved brother and lost many of his close friends, all despite his best attempt to protect them.. I can understand his prejudice towards the lighteyes, his fear (that someone might take that also away from him), paranoia (might be a result of the depression he suffered)..   The way he almost killed Syl, his heartbreak as a result and how he brought her back were all sensational in my opinion..  I really liked his whole journey of realizing himself as a Radiant within the two books..  I don't think he is ever gonna go back on his word now..

[Flywinged]

I really enjoy Kaladin as a character. I was really tempted to vote him, but Szeth just strikes some chord within me. He is easily the most badass character Sanderson has written (In my opinion, and Vasher and Dalinar come in a close second). I cannot wait to read his backstory. Plus a mentally unstable, incredibly talented swordsman, with Nightblood... Can't wait.

[Kyats Rani]

My favourite character is also Kaladin. I really loved his storyline in WoK, though I started to really like him as a character only when he took charge of the bridgemen. Yes, he did many stupid or annoying things in WoR, but I still think him to be a great character. He may be prejudiced about lighteyes, but not without a reason and he does in fact try to change it. However, he did admit that Dalinar is different and trusted him enough to speak the truth about Amaram (as we know that it never did him any good in the past). With time he even slowly changes his mind about Adolin too. He sees himself that his fear that his surgebinding will be taken away from him is irrational, but fears anyway - it's a consequence of what he's been through.

 

Yes, he does mope a bit too much and the whole situation with Moash and the assasination was his big mistake, but he would be boring if he made no stupid mistakes. As for the moping - by the end of WoR he seems to be going in the good direction, but if his depression and his issues just suddenly disappeared it would make him even more annoying and unrealistic. During the whole WoR he's either angry or gloomy, but in the end he gets over at least part of it, which makes me believe that even though some of it will prevail, it won't be so bad anymore - it was just something he had to deal with first, before going forward. And I hope it stays this way.

 

Warning, book 3 readings spoiler!

Yes, in his reading he's moping and gloomy again, but I don't perceive it as being as bad as before. This time he worries about real danger and is angry with himself for not managing to do what he wanted to (he mentions that maybe if he had been more skilled with surgebinding he would've arrived on time), but he doesn't blame the whole world for this failure (as he sometimes did before). He's gloomy because he's worried not just because as he seemed at times before. So yes, I believe he's really improving. But we will have to wait to see for sure.

[missionaryofgod]

I´m a little horrified Szeth has received so many votes. He is a murderer killing people just because of a stone. In my opinion he should have stopped caring about that oathstone a long while ago and followed is inner voice instead. He is too obedient. Hope book three will explain in depth his actions if I ever am going to like him.

[Marmota]

I´m a little horrified Szeth has received so many votes. He is a murderer killing people just because of a stone. In my opinion he should have stopped caring about that oathstone a long while ago and followed is inner voice instead. He is too obedient. Hope book three will explain in depth his actions if I ever am going to like him.

 

I voted Szeth. But to be honest, i was kind disappointed in WoR when it was reveiled that Szeth's deal with the oathstone was only because of duty and honour. I was thinking that could be some kind of greater magic binding Seth and the stone,, therefore he didnt have a choice. But i think that it would ruin all the plans Brandon has for Szeth in the end...so i think Stones Unhallowed will decide if he is lame or not

 

Someone voted Lopen... really? I find him extremelly anoying with his good mood

[~sylphrena~]

Could we add Syl? She is such a beautiful counterpart to Kaladin (and saved Elhokar, who is probably very important because he seems to be able to see cryptics, or at least some form of spren...)

[Twenty@20]

Dalinar is the rock on which Stormlight Archive is built. I was sold on him when I read him digging toilets for his soldiers in WoK. That is something you don't read often. This single deed shows all the greatness in Dalinar. My vote is for him.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Twenty@20

[Unhinged]

Had a hard time choosing here, I like both Kaladin and Lift (Shallan coming in a close third) but given how many people voted for Kaladin I decided to go against the grain and vote for Lift.

[missionaryofgod]

Huuhh Now I´m really worried. Wit/Hoid in second place in the poll. Horrifying

[sun tzaro]

I voted Szeth.

 

Across different threads, I've seen many people who seem to be very confused about Szeth's character. This upsets me greatly. I suppose this is as good a place as any to lay down the law (bwuhuhuh).

 

 

Szeth and the Skybreakers embody a single idea:

 

The notions of "right" and "wrong" vary from person to person.

 

Szeth believes that by fulfilling his oath as Truthless, he is doing the right thing. 

 

 

"Have I not been faithful?" Szeth shouted, finally looking up to face the sun. His voice echoed against the mountains and their spirit-souls. "Have I not obeyed, kept my oath? Have I not done as you demanded of me?"

 

Szeth was raised in Shin culture, and Szeth believes in the Shin religion. He was banished for claiming that the Voidbringers had returned, and he accepted his punishment. Szeth hates killing. He hates himself. So why does he kill? Why does he honor his oath as Truthless? Because he believes that by honoring the precepts of his religion and his culture, he is doing the right thing.

 

You may (or may not) see Szeth as a monster because of your own conceptions of right and wrong. Do you, like Lirin, think that killing is never right? Like Kaladin, do you think that you can kill to protect? Are there no other acceptable reasons to kill?

 

Kaladin's own notions of right and wrong are very heavily informed by his own upbringing. This is evident in the climactic sequence of WoK, where Kaladin speaks the second Oath of the Windrunners after remembering what Lirin said to him years ago. The past affects him again in WoR, when he realizes that protecting Elkohar is the right thing to do after remembering what Tien meant to him.

 

 

Now, there seems to be a huge misunderstanding about Szeth's final words to Kaladin. 

 

 

Szeth nodded, and the edge of tension seemed to fade from him, replaced by an emptiness in his eyes. "Then I was right all along. I was never Truthless. I could have stopped the murders at any time."

 

This is not a moment of redemption. Here, Szeth is not saying "killing is wrong". Szeth is saying that his murders are no longer acceptable to him because he is not Truthless - he was wrongfully banished. If Szeth hadn't encountered Kaladin or any of the other proto-Radiants, he would have gone on killing until he was insane or dead. 

 

Kaladin, Syl, and the Windrunners seem very concerned with doing what is "right". Kaladin believes that by protecting Dalinar, he is doing what is right. Szeth believes that by obeying the commands of Taravingian, who holds his Oathstone, and killing Dalinar, he is doing what is right. So, if the notion of what is right can vary so greatly from person to person, then how is there any consistency at all in the actions of those who "do what is right?"

 

 

"I saved him," Lift said. "I did something good, didn't I?"

 

"Goodness is irrelevant," Darkness said. 

 

Beauty, goodness, honor, right, and wrong are all in the eye of the beholder.

 

And that's where the Skybreakers come in. If "right" and "wrong" are so incredibly unreliable, then what is left? 

 

Laws.

 

Laws may be unfair, discriminatory, cruel, brutal, or a number of other terrible things. But laws offer one thing that the nebulous and personal notions of right and wrong could never do. They offer consistency.

 

Yes, laws are written by those in power. There are always going to be many who disagree with laws. But unlike personal morals, which certainly are hidden, and can be unpredictable, laws are public. Laws are there. People acknowledge them, and people choose to abide by them. Of course, laws can be manipulated, and the whole of the Skybreaker philosophy is, as of yet, unclear. Is it better to follow personal and possibly twisted notions of right and wrong, or to seek justice for laws that could potentially be abusive?

 

Of course, maybe you disagree with everything I just said. Maybe there is some universal "right" and "wrong" out there. You could argue that when Szeth hates killing, it's not a personal revulsion he has with the act - maybe it's because, deep down, he knows what he is doing is wrong. Maybe you're right. All I'm doing is explaining what the point of Szeth's character, and what the point of the Skybreakers is.

 

Maybe I'm projecting here - but I don't think I am. We all know that Sanderson is a  Mormon and a pretty religious guy. In a way, the whole deal of the Skybreakers versus the Windrunners is a reflection of a very old religious (or anti-religious, it could be said) debate:

 

Do humans inherently know right and wrong?

 

Or can morality only be known from rules - laws - that religious texts like the Bible and the Book of Mormon provide? 

 

I think it's normally phrased like this: Can a person cannot know right or wrong without God telling them what is right and what is wrong?

 

Possible religious allegories aside, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Nightblood. A sword that doesn't know good or evil, in the hands of an order that doesn't believe in good or evil. 

 

Szeth is a fascinating character, and he does have some of the best scenes in the book. Dropping his Shardblade, and then proceeding to slaughter Shardbearers and Half-Shard wielders with a combination of kung fu and Lashing... draining the stormlight from the hall and leaving them all in darkness when he first tries to assassinate Dalinar... sitting atop the apex of Urithiru, screaming at the sky...

 

I cannot wait to see where Szeth's character will go. When I was reading WoR for the first time, I was incredibly disappointed when he died - I thought it an unforgiveable stain on an otherwise wonderful book. When I read that he was had survived, a few chapters later, I was elated. When I read that he had been given Nightblood and that he was going to be apprenticed to Nale, WoR, in my mind, became near perfect. 

 

Szeth is the reason why the Stormlight Archive is among my favorite books of all time, and I don't think I'll ever anticipate another book as much as I'm anticipating Stones Unhallowed.

 

 

 

I´m a little horrified Szeth has received so many votes. He is a murderer killing people just because of a stone. In my opinion he should have stopped caring about that oathstone a long while ago and followed is inner voice instead. He is too obedient. Hope book three will explain in depth his actions if I ever am going to like him.

 

 

Your words scorch my soul.

 

 

I voted Szeth. But to be honest, i was kind disappointed in WoR when it was reveiled that Szeth's deal with the oathstone was only because of duty and honour. I was thinking that could be some kind of greater magic binding Seth and the stone,, therefore he didnt have a choice. 

 

 

That would defeat the purpose of Szeth's character.

Edited November 6, 2014 by sun tzaro

[Twenty@20]

@ sun tzaro. Very good post. Have upvote.

I agree with your analysis of Szeth's motivations. Szeth presents very different concept of right or wrong that goes against the natural sense of right or wrong of many readers. That's why he is mostly hated.

Szeth follows the cult or religion of Stone Shamanism. When he commits the blasphemy of saying that Voidbringers are back, he is immediately punished. Because of his religious beliefs and laws, he follows his orders meticulously ignoring what it did to him. He thought that his actions were sanctioned by his religion's God and therefore worth obeying.

A person's notion or right is shaped by his society. What is acceptable in one society is not acceptable in another. Szeth is an extreme end of this spectrum.

This is not a moment of redemption. Here, Szeth is not saying "killing is wrong". Szeth is saying that his murders are no longer acceptable to him because he is not Truthless - he was wrongfully banished.

Ya, that is not redemption as in he is not atoning for his sins. He knows he is beyond redemption for the killings he did.(I have used the word a few times incorrectly). That was a moment of renunciation of his Shin beliefs. He casted off his burden of oathstone but with it came the realisation that he had a lot of burden on his conscience and let Kaladin kill him Edited November 6, 2014 by Twenty@20

[Kyats Rani]

...

 

I've never been much of a fan of Szeth but you made me change my mind He's still not one of my favourities but now I'm giving him a chance (we will see in Stones Unhallowed).

 

 

This is not a moment of redemption. Here, Szeth is not saying "killing is wrong". Szeth is saying that his murders are no longer acceptable to him because he is not Truthless - he was wrongfully banished. If Szeth hadn't encountered Kaladin or any of the other proto-Radiants, he would have gone on killing until he was insane or dead.

As for this matter... I think that at that moment Szeth finally took the full responsibility for what he did. Before he thought he had no other choice because he was Truthless. When he realized it wasn't the case he understood that everything he did was his personal guilt (for an explanation of this look up the story Hoid tells Kaladin in WoK). Szeth thought that he deserved to die for his crimes and so he allowed Kaladin to kill him. He didn't try to redeem himself but he took the full responsibility.

 

Now that Szeth is alive again he has to live with the knowledge that he murdered so many people. It will gnaw at his soul forever so his life will be now his penance. But he will live it and try to do something good to even up (but not remove) his past deeds. At least that's how I'd like to see it.

[Trip]

DALINAR #1

 

He is the wise man who tries to do what is right.

 

 

“I once saw a spindly man carrying a stone larger than his head upon his back. He stumbled beneath the weight, shirtless under the sun, wearing only a loincloth. He tottered down a busy thoroughfare. People made way for him. Not because they sympathized with him, but because they feared the momentum of his steps. You dare not impede one such as this. The monarch is like this man, stumbling along, the weight of a kingdom on his shoulders. Many give way before him, but so few are willing to step in and help carry the stone. They do not wish to attach themselves to the work, lest they condemn themselves to a life full of extra burdens. I left my carriage that day and took up the stone, lifting it for the man. I believe my guards were embarrassed. One can ignore a poor shirtless wretch doing such labor, but none ignore a king sharing the load. Perhaps we should switch places more often. If a king is seen to assume the burden of the poorest of men, perhaps there will be those who will help him with his own load, so invisible, yet so daunting.”

[N006+ard4life]

I feel like I'm a bit late to this party, but oh well.  Adolin is by far my favorite, and Dalinar is a close second.  Not a fan of Kaladin, he kind of annoys me.  I'm a bit torn on Shallan, sometimes I love her and other times I hate her.  I'm starting to like Jasnah and Renarin, the rest are just kind of meh.

[AerionBFII]

1. Kaladin

2.Wit

3.Szeth

4.Dalinar

5.Jasnah

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-1000.Stick

[littlemag126]

gota say my favorite character is syl

[StormingTexan]

Is it ok to pick Knightblood?

If not I'd say Dalinar. Shallan as a close second. Szeth would be my third I think we will eventually see a whole new side to him. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by StormingTexan

[Worldhopper]

Is it ok to pick Knightblood?

Yes, yes it is.

I'd go with Zahel though, stupid language. Hehehe, got me every time.

[el_warko]

My vote is other (Roshar)

 

Szeth if I have to pick a biped.