JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted March 22, 2024 Posted March 22, 2024 Spren should be able to hide from humans if they want. And Ulim probably knew Nale before and after his Heraldization. Clearly Ulim has been able to hide from Heralds before, or he wouldn't have a reason to believe he can hide now? This has probably been covered somewhere, but I came across it recently and realize I don't know, so if anyone knows or there's a WoB out there I haven't read...what's up with that? Quote "Hush!" he said, glancing over his shoulder at the humans. "They're not dead. You have no idea how royally, colossally, incredibly ruined we are. I saw Shalash first and followed her then ran across not only Kalak, but Nale. I think he saw me. He shouldn't have been able to, but-" A figure darkened the doorway to the guard post. The bearded soldier looked up. Venli turned slowly, attuning Anxiety. The newcomer was an imposing figure with deep brown skin and a pale mark on his cheek, almost like a listener might have as part of their skin pattern. He was in uniform, though it wasn't of the cut the Alethi wore. He looked at Venli, then pointedly at Ulim-who groaned.
alder24 Posted March 23, 2024 Posted March 23, 2024 3 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said: Spren should be able to hide from humans if they want. And Ulim probably knew Nale before and after his Heraldization. Clearly Ulim has been able to hide from Heralds before, or he wouldn't have a reason to believe he can hide now? This has probably been covered somewhere, but I came across it recently and realize I don't know, so if anyone knows or there's a WoB out there I haven't read...what's up with that? No WoB on that. I have no idea. Heralds, even by their nature of Cognitive Shadows, can't see into CR and notice spren there, so that's not how he saw Ulim. I guess this is probably connected in some way to the way he is able to know where Radiants appear and who they are. Or maybe his Highspren is telling him that Ulim is there - in OB Syl has to hide from Voidspren who was leading freed Parshmen, because she could see her. Spoiler Questioner I think there's a flaw in my understanding of Cognitive Shadows. I assume that... they would have more visibility into the Cognitive Realm, like a Herald would be able to see spren more easily, that kind of thing. Is that incorrect? Brandon Sanderson That is incorrect. A Cognitive Shadow simply means a copy of the Cognitive side made by a deep amount of Investiture. And everybody has a Cognitive side. Basically it's a fake soul. Or, fake is the wrong term. Fake is the wrong term. Even in-world they don't know if it's really them or not. It is Investiture has replaced the Investiture that is fleeing from them as they die, or enhancing it in some way to keep it around. So some Cognitive Shadows trapped on the Cognitive Realm are going to be-- have a lot of Cognitive-- I mean, they're there, right? But some Cognitive Shadows inhabiting a body in the same way that your mind inhabits your body, the way the cosmere works... So a Herald is going to feel like they are alive just like-- but their soul has been somehow transformed. It's not really transformed, it's been reproduced or copied by an injection of Investiture... And I'll say for the purpose of the recordings, I haven't canonized any of that terminology that I just used about Cognitive Shadows. I'm just talking about it, I'm not necessarily saying that this is how you are supposed to refer to it. You can refer to it however you want. I've often used the metaphor of how fossils get made. When a fossil is made there is a pattern and it is slowly replaced with another substance that is stronger and more endurant, and has the shape of it, but is it still the bone? When you have a fossil bone is it the dinosaur bone? In most cases no, but yes. It's the ship of Theseus sort of thing again. Is this the bone or is it not? Is this the soul? Is this the person or is it not? That's the same sort of thing is happening with Cognitive Shadows. And it's happening on all three Realms to an extent, though of course the body is not. The body stays. It's happening on two Realms. It's happening Spiritually, mostly Cognitively. Orem signing (March 10, 2018) OB ch 17: Quote “It’s not that,” she said, speaking in a furious whisper. “I think parshmen might be able to see me. Some, at least. And that other spren is still here too. A higher spren, like me.” “Where?” Kaladin asked, twisting. “She’s invisible to you,” Syl said, becoming a group of leaves and blowing around him. “I think I’ve fooled her into thinking I’m just a windspren.” She zipped away, leaving a dozen unanswered questions on Kaladin’s lips. Storms … is that spren how they know where to go? The column started again, and Kaladin walked for a good hour in silence before Syl next decided to come back to him. She landed on his shoulder, becoming the image of a young woman in her whimsical skirt. “She’s gone ahead for a little bit,” she said. “And the parshmen aren’t looking.” 2
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted March 25, 2024 Author Posted March 25, 2024 @alder24 You bring up a good point. Occam's razor would suggest that Nale's spren saw Ulim, immediately recognized him, and told Nale, "Ulim is right here in front of me. Clearly we should look into why he's on Roshar" because obvious reasons. The way Brandon wrot it, it certainly seems like Nale can just see him by default, and maybe he can. But, it wouldn't be the first time (and won't be the last) that Sanderson has used wordplay to hide something else (either simpler or more complicated) in plain sight. That, at the very least, makes my brain feel better. Thanks:) 1
Recommended Posts