Dilemma as Harmony

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

Now I'm getting more hypothetical, but maybe Autonomy figured out how to condense and automate what Kelsier did to staple himself back into his body using Hemalurgy - basically embedding a spike that is setup to capture and transform the soul when the bearer dies and then Hemalurgically reconnect the new Cognitive Shadow to the body. Perhaps some aspect of their new nature let's them reshape their body or heal - (greater cosmere spoiler)

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basically a hacked version of a Returned.

Interesting.

I don't think that this has to be the case (it could simply be a Linchpin spike or Autonomy using her Connection via the Trellium to fuel their healing) but it could be true.

In order to become a Cognitive Shadow, you need to be drenched in Investiture at the time of death or already be particularly Invested. We do see their eyes begin to glow though, which could be pointing to this very act.

30 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes, it has very interesting implications. I have no idea how I've missed this before. I need to start reading Cosmere in English only  

Oh, do you normally read in another language?

31 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think there are some ways to use one attribute spike without warping you into a construct, some physical deformation may happen, especially if you're not careful, but if done correctly with the right intent and right binding point an iron spike holding strength might just make you more muscular, with no additional warping.

Now that would be pretty cool to figure out, particularly once H-copper becomes available; a little extra intelligence goes a long way.

32 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Or this iron spike was charged with something different than an attribute - that's also a possibility. ReLuur have pewter Blessings, we already have examples of using metals outside of their designated role. 

Also true. I wonder if Hemalurgy is more malleable in its metals' roles than Allomancy or Feruchemy since the Spiritweb is a more complex thing as a whole, and you could find multiple Spiritweb "paths" to achieve the same end result, but with different metals, such as using a steel spike for manipulating height and such instead of iron.

35 minutes ago, alder24 said:

In Wax's case I don't think it makes him taller - he is always tall, no matter if he wears the spike or not and that was only the 4th spike given to him. He didn't say it looks like the spike he used to kill Lessie, so I think the 1st and 3rd spike (and possibly the 2nd one too) were made out of a different metal than the iron spike - inquisitor spike as per WoB (and VenDell in BoM said his earring was made out of old inquisitor spikes).

Yeah, that's true.

Also, he's Terris, so that probably also contributed to his height.

[Treamayne]

16 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

I don't think we have any information on Autonomy Cognitive Shadows, but I think it's time you start looking.

There has been speculation that this applies to: (White Sand Spoilers)

Spoiler

 Skathan, as the investiture of Taldain does not have an inherent method of Agelessness.

56 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Isn't four spikes the minimum number that requires a Linchpin spike?

Right, so without a Linchpin, there would only be three spikes total (and therefore no need for a linchpin). Trellium needs to be the source of healing (even if that healing is not F-Gold and Marasi only thought it was). 

More later - errands to run. . . 

 

[alder24]

18 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

@Treamayne and @alder24, I'll answer you both without fiddling with quotes because I'm on mobile right now.  Treamayne makes a good point, it could be F-Gold, but there's something more going on. The Cycle stopped healing after a shot to the head, then started back up. In Marasi's after action report to Wax, Wax said that should be impossible , and I'm adding if F-Gold is the only source of healing.

Interestingly just after a Q&A board question most of us looked at and weighed in asking if Inquisitors are Cognitive Shadows, we concluded that they are probably not - but I think this Cycle might have been made one after death. I don't think we have any information on Autonomy Cognitive Shadows, but I think it's time you start looking. I've been thinking about this ever since the Set Faceless Immortal told Edwarn that he would be permitted to serve elsewhere in the Set - and proceeded to blow both of them up.

Now I'm getting more hypothetical, but maybe Autonomy figured out how to condense and automate what Kelsier did to staple himself back into his body using Hemalurgy - basically embedding a spike that is setup to capture and transform the soul when the bearer dies and then Hemalurgically reconnect the new Cognitive Shadow to the body. Perhaps some aspect of their new nature let's them reshape their body or heal - (greater cosmere spoiler)

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basically a hacked version of a Returned.

 

I doubt this is happening, it would require too much investiture than it was in spikes. Healing can be done when unconscious, as your body will have the intent to survive, enough to reach and tap goldmind or burn pewter. I think the red eyes are an indication of corruption (obviously) and also that Autonomy/Trell is there and maybe even taking over. The Cycle didn't stop healing after the shot to the head, he should have stopped, but he continued to heal anyway - that's something new. Autonomy's faceless immortals are something else to consider. TLM ch 6:

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The Cycle followed, sticking her knife into his belt. Then, horribly, his eyes started to glow faintly red. “Trell is choosing hosts,” he said. “Avatars, bestowed with his power. How would you like to be the accomplishment that proves I’m worthy of immortality, lawwoman? All you have to do is die.”
[...]
A shot to the head should stop a Bloodmaker from healing, but some part of her insisted she should check anyway. She lurched over to inspect the corpse. And found the bullet wounds pulling closed on the man’s head, the holes in the skull resealing.
Rusting hell.
She heaved the slumped-over body onto its back and scrambled to pull her knife from his belt. He was healing from bullets to the head? Something was very wrong here. She shot him again, but that would only be temporary.
[...]
The Cycle’s eyes snapped open, despite his broken jaw and the holes in his skull. Marasi cursed and worked faster, bloodied fingers straining to pry out the first of the four spikes, which was so tightly embedded between his ribs it was difficult to yank free.
Those eyes. They were glowing a vivid red now.
“The ash comes again,” the man said through bloody lips, his voice strangely grating. “The world will fall to it. You will get what you deserve, and all will wither beneath a cloud of blackness and a blanket of burned bodies made ash.”
Marasi gritted her teeth, working on the rusty-looking spike, slick with blood.
“Your end,” the voice whispered. “Your end comes. Either in ash, or at the hands of the men of gold and red. Gold and—”

That sounds just like what Miles had said before his death. Telsin also had red glowing eyes - that's Trell in my opinion, it is taking over and talking and also providing an intent to heal despite head wounds. TLM ch 34:

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Marasi followed their gaze back toward Telsin, looking so proud and confident. As she watched, Marasi could swear that Telsin’s eyes began to glow a soft red. The faintest of light. It was gone a moment later

And here is Autonomy talking directly to Wax using a spiked, dying person - with glowing, red eyes. TLM ch 55:

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He stopped before the final one. She was bloodied but breathing, and when her eyes slipped open there was a faint red glow to them.
“Ah,” she said in a rasping voice. “You are good at this. We thought we had taken enough precautions. Yet here you are. Breathing down our neck. Such drive. Such individualism. A shame that Harmony got you first.”
Wax backed away, leveling the gun at her.
“This body soon expires,” the creature said. “You need not concern yourself.”
“What are you?”
“You know what I am,” she whispered.
“Trell.”
“Your sister becomes Trell,” the thing whispered. “The name and mythology I prepared for her to adopt. But she has not achieved it yet. And I am not Trell. Rare is it that I speak to one directly as I do you.”
“Autonomy,” he whispered.
“Yes. Pierced by my metal. Soul open to my touch…”

And when Harmony cut off Telsin's Connection to Autonomy, her eyes stopped glowing red - so the red eyes are about Autonomy directly, TLM ch 66:

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Hit her, Harmony, Wax thought. Cut her off. Now.
Telsin gasped. She stumbled, the red glow to her eyes fading, her lips parting, and fell motionless to the rooftop.

SA spoilers WoB:

Spoiler

Aradanftw

Kaladin and Vin both have used magic subconsciously. Kaladin while training with the bridge plank and drawing in Stormlight, and Vin burning pewter while being beaten. Does that mean that Intent is not always required, or is a simple Intent like "I will be strong" enough to activate the magic system?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to go with the simple Intent answer that you're giving there. So, at the basic level... the more specific and the more powerful you want to be, the more you need to understand your Intent, is where this is. The body has an Intent. Kaladin uses the magic while he's unconscious, right? The Intent is survive, basically the body knowing it needs to survive. And this is possible to an extent with a lot of the magic systems, just kind of in the base, physical sense, your body knowing how to use what it's been given, is going to happen. You're going to see this with other instances in the magic as well. And even kind of not knowing or not wanting to face it, you can get some base level of power in most of the magics. Yes, it's the second one in that you can make the argument that your body just wants to survive, and things like this, but Intent really starts to play into it when you're doing distinct and increasingly powerful things with the magics. Intent is like your ability to focus, right? You can fire a sniper rifle on accident, but hitting the thing that you want to hit with it requires a lot of practice and focus. That practice and focus in the magic systems is often Intent-related.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)