Sunlit Man questions

[JanalinAladar She/her]

Ok so i just read the Sunlit Man a few weeks ago and it was AMAZING! I loved it so much (rip Aux) but it left me with some questions.

- the Scadrians use an Awakened Steelmind as assumedly an AI but would an Awakened Zincmind be better as that stores speed of thought??

- why do awakeners not also display heightened durability and healing as Nomad says that anyone with a certain amount of investiture will have these qualities (are breaths different to other forms of investiture maybe due to their relation to Endowment?)

Anyway thanks for entertaining my questions im interested in what answers you come up with! 

[CoatRackHoid]

I would imagine that awakeners do get a buff to overall durability with enough breaths but it takes a lot of BEU's to get to that point and so for everyone other than the ones with upwards of 1500(8% skip capacity for Nomad) breaths, and even beyond that, it just doesn't do a whole lot to be noticeable. Plus most awakeners with a truly incredibly large amount of breaths(god kings and the like) do have more durability than normal humans. A breath is a relatively small amount of investiture and because everyone on Nalthis only starts with one it’s pretty difficult getting enough breaths to have an appreciable difference to one's healing and durability.

As for the Awakened Steelmind I would imagine it doesn't matter a whole lot what type of metal it is because its not being tapped by anyone just sitting there being an AI. In my opinion the only effect the metal would have on the AI is it's personality and so maybe steel makes a more quick acting and fast obeying AI as opposed to a potentially quick-witted, smart aleck Zinc AI. Of course I'm probably wrong and Brandon it going to reveal something later on that answers both questions and makes me look like a fool. 

Edited February 21, 2024 by CoatRackHoid
Fixing exact number of breaths

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Please let us know what, if any, works you have or have not read (whichever list is shorter) - preferably in your profile or in an Intro Post - so that we can mark spoilers appopriately. 

3 hours ago, JanalinAladar said:

Ok so i just read the Sunlit Man a few weeks ago and it was AMAZING! I loved it so much (rip Aux) but it left me with some questions.

1. The Scadrians use an Awakened Steelmind as assumedly an AI but would an Awakened Zincmind be better as that stores speed of thought??
2. Why do awakeners not also display heightened durability and healing as Nomad says that anyone with a certain amount of investiture will have these qualities (are breaths different to other forms of investiture maybe due to their relation to Endowment?)

Anyway thanks for entertaining my questions im interested in what answers you come up with! 

1. We do not know what "steelmind" in this case really refers to. Since all we get is "Awakened Steelmind giving a status report" we don't know if it is really referencing F-Steel, Steel working with Medallion tech, or if that is just how they refer to Steel that has had investiture applied. We also do not know how it may have been "awakened" since that is now a Manifestation of Investiture (MoI)-generic term (WoBs below). 
   • TLDR: Awakened may not mean Breaths, and Steelmind may not mean Feruchemical Attributes. Steel may just be a reference to that fabrial's function in the ship.
2. Correct, there are some things that Nalthian Awakening (and BioChromatic Breath) cannot do for the person holding them, because of the nature of Endowment's Intent (WoB Below)
    

WoBs (Spoilers for RoW and SP3)

Spoiler

Quote

RoW Ch 10 Epigraph

Note that advanced designs of cages can use both steel and iron as well, changing the fabrial’s polarity depending on which metals are pushed to touch the gemstone.

Quote

FirstSelector

So, do you have a name, like an in-world name for a large magical construction, like the things that picks Elantrians?

Brandon Sanderson

That was why I invented the term "fabrial." It will become widespread eventually, as the term for meaning, kind of, magic-type devices in the cosmere. That's not what you call it right now, but you can start calling them all fabrials.

FirstSelector

But what about something that isn't, like-- I always imagined that Aona left, like, a device, a magical device running--

Brandon Sanderson

I will have to RAFO that.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

Quote

(Edited for Length) Argent 

There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

Quote

vandar10

Could someone with enough Breaths use part of them to heal himself without the help of a Returned?? Could the God King have healed himself without Lightsong with enough knowledge?

Brandon Sanderson

The nature of the Warbreaker magic is tied to the shard of Endowment, which is about giving. There are, therefore, things you cannot do for yourself.

RobotAztec

For healing can Big Breaths heal only one person at a time or can you heal a bunch of people at once?(as long as they are not yourself)?

Brandon Sanderson

Legends say you can heal many.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 8, 2015)

Hope that helps

[alder24]

11 hours ago, JanalinAladar said:

- the Scadrians use an Awakened Steelmind as assumedly an AI but would an Awakened Zincmind be better as that stores speed of thought??

I think of this in this way - it's a computer, a computer doesn't think, it sends electrical signals through wires. That's something a physical speed can increase, making it process data faster. Zinc increases how your brain works, a computer has no brain, it's made out of logic gates.

11 hours ago, JanalinAladar said:

- why do awakeners not also display heightened durability and healing as Nomad says that anyone with a certain amount of investiture will have these qualities (are breaths different to other forms of investiture maybe due to their relation to Endowment?)

It's  because of the nature of Endowment and Nalthian Awakening. Breaths are about GIVING not taking. There are simply things that you can't do to yourself with Breaths, like healing. 

But healing is not because of how invested Nomad was, it was only because of his nature as a former Dawnshard holder. He can use any investiture to heal, manipulate Connection (which allows him to speak languages) and stuff like that. Normally just being invested doesn't heal you, this is an active ability which you have to have in your Spirit Web. Breaths don't give you that ability. 

However a Divine Breath does increase speed, reflexes and strength - but that's connected to their nature of Returned and a Cognitive Shadow. It's also possible to do more than just heal with a Divine Breath. It may be possible for a Returned to grant some temporary physical enhancements instead of healing. 

Spoiler

vandar10

Could someone with enough Breaths use part of them to heal himself without the help of a Returned?? Could the God King have healed himself without Lightsong with enough knowledge?

Brandon Sanderson

The nature of the Warbreaker magic is tied to the shard of Endowment, which is about giving. There are, therefore, things you cannot do for yourself.

RobotAztec

For healing can Big Breaths heal only one person at a time or can you heal a bunch of people at once?(as long as they are not yourself)?

Brandon Sanderson

Legends say you can heal many.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 8, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

When you transfer divine Breath, is it possible to have it result in something other than healing?

Brandon Sanderson

Lots of things are possible. Let's just say that that is not something people know how to do, and they have tried to do something else.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

 

 

[JanalinAladar She/her]

Wow thanks you guys for all those answers especially the ones about Awakeners and the nature of Breath that'd been bugging me for a while! :3

[Colors]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:39 PM, JanalinAladar said:

Ok so i just read the Sunlit Man a few weeks ago and it was AMAZING! I loved it so much (rip Aux) but it left me with some questions.

- the Scadrians use an Awakened Steelmind as assumedly an AI but would an Awakened Zincmind be better as that stores speed of thought??

- why do awakeners not also display heightened durability and healing as Nomad says that anyone with a certain amount of investiture will have these qualities (are breaths different to other forms of investiture maybe due to their relation to Endowment?)

Anyway thanks for entertaining my questions im interested in what answers you come up with! 

Maybe I misread, but I believe the Awakened Steelmind was used as the "engine" , not an AI...or at the least the the Awakened part is the A.I. piloting the engine, which is the steelmind. 

But, I could be totally off. 

The others already explained the bit about Nalthians pretty well, I have nothing to add. 

Edited February 22, 2024 by Colors

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Colors said:

Maybe I misread, but I believe the Awakened Steelmind was used as the "engine" , not an AI...or at the least the the Awakened part is the A.I. piloting the engine, which is the steelmind. 

But, I could be totally off. 

The others already explained the bit about Nalthians pretty well, I have nothing to add. 

No, it's a computer, TSM ch 45:

Quote

The deep, musical voice of the ship’s Awakened Steelmind giving a status report.

[Colors]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

No, it's a computer, TSM ch 45:

I don't think what you're saying precludes what I said. 

If a steelmind were Awakened and being used as some kind of physical engine for the ship it very well may be able to give a status report on itself, for example what % of storage capacity the stored speed is at. By merely being Awakened it may be able to relay such information, that doesn't mean it has to be a computer in my opinion. 

We really don't have enough information, either about the scene or the state of Awakening tech in the future of the cosmere to be able to tell definitively.  I think we will need to see more about Awakening in this new era of technology and even know what kind of magic system was used to accomplish the Awakening to be able to know for sure. 

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, Colors said:

I don't think what you're saying precludes what I said. 

That's the only mention of this Steelmind in TSM. It's talking, it's named "the voice of the ship," it's Awakened - meaning it's an Awakened computer. Not different from Riina's computer, not different from any other Awakened computers that exist, which are quite common in the future. 

Spoiler

[...]

Argent

There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

[...]

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

8 minutes ago, Colors said:

If a steelmind were Awakened and being used as some kind of physical engine for the ship it very well may be able to give a status report on itself, for example what % of storage capacity the stored speed is at. By merely being Awakened it may be able to relay such information, that doesn't mean it has to be a computer in my opinion. 

They've been buried in the ground for years now, they don't need any status report right now. Why would they need to do anything with their engine if they don't plan to leave the planet anytime soon? Why would the engine suddenly give a status report conveniently when Nomad entered the ship? It makes the most sense that it's just an Awakened computer, with some form of AI. Not to mention that they rely on FTL, which involves speed bubbles - probably working more like an Alcubierre drive, than a physical thrust engine. Physical speed isn’t needed for that.

[Colors]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

That's the only mention of this Steelmind in TSM. It's talking, it's named "the voice of the ship," it's Awakened - meaning it's an Awakened computer. Not different from Riina's computer, not different from any other Awakened computers that exist, which are quite common in the future. 

  Hide contents

[...]

Argent

There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer.

[...]

Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023)

 

They've been buried in the ground for years now, they don't need any status report right now. Why would they need to do anything with their engine if they don't plan to leave the planet anytime soon? Why would the engine suddenly give a status report conveniently when Nomad entered the ship? It makes the most sense that it's just an Awakened computer, with some form of AI. Not to mention that they rely on FTL, which involves speed bubbles - probably working more like an Alcubierre drive, than a physical thrust engine. Physical speed isn’t needed for that.

Fair enough, you're probably correct. I still don't think that an object would necessarily have to be a computer to accomplish such a thing if Awakened, any Awakened machine could likely relay information if that was part of their command(s). But the weight of the evidence we have thus-far suggests you are probably correct.