aetherbound he/him Posted January 23, 2024 Posted January 23, 2024 This WoB suggests that a forged metal would be viable for Allomancy, but burning the metal is destructive to it and would destroy the stamp. Spoiler Spoiler Questioner I wanted to know if Forged metals had Allomantic properties. Brandon Sanderson If Forged metals had Allomantic properties. So what I’ve kind of been ruling on this is if you Forge a metal from one metal to another you can probably start burning it Allomantically but it-- Once you did it would disrupt the Spiritual nature of the metal and it would change back immediately. Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015) What if you were to do this with Feruchemy? Would the attribute stay stored in the metal, even though it's no longer the right type? Could you get a two attribute metalmind this way? What about Hemalurgy?
Through The Living Grub He/Him Posted January 23, 2024 Posted January 23, 2024 19 minutes ago, Aetherbound said: Could you get a two attribute metalmind this way? From my understanding, if you forge iron to steel and store an attribute into it, you would store speed because that is what the metalmind is made of.
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 23, 2024 Posted January 23, 2024 31 minutes ago, Aetherbound said: This WoB suggests that a forged metal would be viable for Allomancy, but burning the metal is destructive to it and would destroy the stamp. Reveal hidden contents Reveal hidden contents Questioner I wanted to know if Forged metals had Allomantic properties. Brandon Sanderson If Forged metals had Allomantic properties. So what I’ve kind of been ruling on this is if you Forge a metal from one metal to another you can probably start burning it Allomantically but it-- Once you did it would disrupt the Spiritual nature of the metal and it would change back immediately. Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015) What if you were to do this with Feruchemy? Would the attribute stay stored in the metal, even though it's no longer the right type? Could you get a two attribute metalmind this way? What about Hemalurgy? 10 minutes ago, Xiahida said: From my understanding, if you forge iron to steel and store an attribute into it, you would store speed because that is what the metalmind is made of. So we know that zinc and steel are both hard to store into. Also gold seems quite uncomfortable to store into... But if you had large iron metalminds and could forge them into steel, zinc or gold and then tap those for physical / mental speed and health that would be huge. You could store nearly all of your weight nearly all the time if you just couch potato it and the drawbacks would be so minor. Then forge yourself to be able to use zinc / gold / steel and suddenly you have full metalminds of the more useful metals. That is pretty genius actually. We see with Wax how quickly Iron can be filled with little thought and consequence vs Wayne. My question would be... does a full iron metalmind act the same as a full gold metalmind once forged? A goldmind could take months of feeling like garbage to fill up where as an ironmetalmind could be filled in a matter of days just because it is far easier to store your weight than it is to endure a bad enough illness to really make a dent.
alder24 Posted January 23, 2024 Posted January 23, 2024 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Aetherbound said: This WoB suggests that a forged metal would be viable for Allomancy, but burning the metal is destructive to it and would destroy the stamp. Reveal hidden contents Reveal hidden contents Questioner I wanted to know if Forged metals had Allomantic properties. Brandon Sanderson If Forged metals had Allomantic properties. So what I’ve kind of been ruling on this is if you Forge a metal from one metal to another you can probably start burning it Allomantically but it-- Once you did it would disrupt the Spiritual nature of the metal and it would change back immediately. Shadows of Self Lansing signing (Oct. 13, 2015) What if you were to do this with Feruchemy? Would the attribute stay stored in the metal, even though it's no longer the right type? Could you get a two attribute metalmind this way? What about Hemalurgy? The only WoBs about forged metalminds are these one: Spoiler Rogaen What would happen if a Feruchemist fills, for example, a tin metalmind then mixes it to make a pewter metalmind? Does the stored attribute change? Is the Investiture gone when you melt the metal? What if he just makes it into a tin metalmind again? Brandon Sanderson If you make it impure, you'll keep the investiture, but won't be able to get it out. If you make it back into the same thing, you'll be fine, and can access it normally. If you try to fill it, after changing the composition to make another viable metal, it will act a little like a computer hard drive with corrupted sectors. Some of it will work for the new investiture, but you won't be able to fill it nearly as full. (Depending on how full it was before you melted down.) This holds for basic uses of the metallurgic arts. Once you start playing with some of the more advanced parts of the magic, you can achieve different results, which are currently RAFO. eSPiaLx Similarly, if you were to soulcast a metal would it have similar effects of corrupting the investiture and making it inaccessible? Like if you turned a steel metalmind into pewter. Brandon Sanderson I've stayed away from soulcasting and forging in these types of discussions, as I feel my answers will dig too deeply and prompt more questions that, eventually, will lead to lots of RAFO type questions. I don't really want to go there--but I will say this. Changing invested objects with other magics is hard, and often requires such a force of investiture yourself, that it becomes very power-inefficient. Just like we can technically turn lead into gold right now--by spending way more money than the gold is worth. BipedSnowman So you could, for example, use electrolysis to dissolve a metalmind in water, then reverse the reaction later to get the investiture? OR, better question, if you store investiture in one allotrope of iron, can your retrieve it off you change to a different allotrope? Brandon Sanderson I see no reason why these wouldn't work. dce42 So would forging with the blood of a radiant(kaladin, dalinar,etc) work on a shard blade from a fallen radiant to say change who they had bonded, or how the bond was broken (to say death instead of giving up on the oath)? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 11, 2016) Spoiler Questioner If a Mistborn were to burn a metal that's been Forged by a Soulstamp, is there a different effect from another, or? Brandon Sanderson So they Forged it from one metal into another metal? Questioner Yes. Brandon Sanderson So once they started to burn it, it would break the Forgery and it would turn back into its original metal. So you'd have just the briefest moment of getting what it said it was and then it would go back to the other and then if you were a Misting of the wrong type, you would get no more from it. Questioner What about Feruchemy or Hemalurgy? Brandon Sanderson So Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. You would have a lot of trouble Investing it because it's already Invested. So you would run into troubles right away trying to Invest it, because it's already got all the Investiture messing with it. You could theoretically make it happen, but it would take enough work and conniving that it just wouldn't be worth it. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) I think you can Forge a metal into another metal and use that as a metalmind because you don't burn it, you don't destroy the metal when you store in it. If you want to Forge an already filled metalmind, then it will be hard because its already too invested and then the attribute stored before Forgery would be unavailable to you, because the metal is no longer the type it should have been, per this WoB, but still inside the metalmind. You won't created a metalmind that can store 2 attributes at once. If you want just simple melt them together, like the Bands are. For Hemalurgic spikes it's more complicated. If you have an already charged spike then you would need a lot of power to change it and its charge to a different one, but it's possible. You can probably take an empty spike, forge it and then charge it with the correct thing and it would probably remain forged - if the forgery were to collapse, then the charge would stay in the spike, but it wouldn't fit the metal, thus becoming useless. Spoiler the_archduke (paraphrased) If the Lord Ruler captured Shai and gave her 100 days to craft a soulstamp that could turn an iron Hemalurgic spike into a steel Hemalurgic spike, could she do it? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, but she would need a boost of power to do it. Affecting an Invested object is hard. the_archduke [Alternate wording from stormfather's report] (paraphrased) Can Shai change Hemalurgic spikes? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, but it costs a lot of power and she wouldn't be able to do it alone. Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015) However, it's possible to steal someone's forged soul, if they forged themselves to be a Mistborn for example, you can steal that fake soul and it would work, but making yourself into a Mistborn is really hard and requires a lot of investiture. Still you can soulstamp people to make them into strongmen and then steal their strength to make really efficient Koloss for example. Spoiler Questioner If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen? Brandon Sanderson We actually worked this out. *laughter* Questioner Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts? Brandon Sanderson So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know-- Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Spoiler Aneesh If there's a Forger like Shai who plausibly had an opportunity to ingest lerasium and become Mistborn, but she passed it up, could she create a stamp that makes her temporarily a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson She would have to have access to enough Investiture to make that happen. The stamp saying, "Hey, I'm a Mistborn!" doesn't actually give her the Investiture to do that. She could rewrite her past so that she took that bead. She would not actually be able to use the power, until she got an infusion of Investiture, which could be done with a stamp in the right manner, but most of the time you're gonna have to have some external source. Basically you're gonna have to take a hit of Investiture, a large amount of it, and then use the stamp, and then it will feed on that to change you into basically any of the other magics. Aneesh Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson If you could get a hit of Stormlight, that'd work. The problem is, Stormlight's not easy to get off of Roshar, and it still is technically keyed. You could get it a lot more easily-- Stormlight would work fairly well, but what you really want is some pure, unkeyed Dor. That stuff, you could do all kinds of things with. But, you know, it's kinda dangerous. But that's the stuff you're gonna want, or something like unto it. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) 15 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: But if you had large iron metalminds and could forge them into steel, zinc or gold and then tap those for physical / mental speed and health that would be huge. No, that's too costly to make it work. Investiture resist investiture, changing a charge of a metalmind would be really hard. Edited January 23, 2024 by alder24 1
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 23, 2024 Posted January 23, 2024 Just now, alder24 said: The only WoBs about forged metalminds are these one: Reveal hidden contents Questioner If a Mistborn were to burn a metal that's been Forged by a Soulstamp, is there a different effect from another, or? Brandon Sanderson So they Forged it from one metal into another metal? Questioner Yes. Brandon Sanderson So once they started to burn it, it would break the Forgery and it would turn back into its original metal. So you'd have just the briefest moment of getting what it said it was and then it would go back to the other and then if you were a Misting of the wrong type, you would get no more from it. Questioner What about Feruchemy or Hemalurgy? Brandon Sanderson So Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. You would have a lot of trouble Investing it because it's already Invested. So you would run into troubles right away trying to Invest it, because it's already got all the Investiture messing with it. You could theoretically make it happen, but it would take enough work and conniving that it just wouldn't be worth it. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) I think you can Forge a metal into another metal and use that as a metalmind because you don't burn it, you don't destroy the metal when you store in it. If you want to Forge an already filled metalmind, then it will be hard because its already too invested and then the attribute stored before Forgery would be unavailable to you, because the metal is no longer the type it should have been, per this WoB, but still inside the metalmind. You won't created a metalmind that can store 2 attributes at once. If you want just simple melt them together, like the Bands are. For Hemalurgic spikes it's more complicated. If you have an already charged spike then you would need a lot of power to change it and its charge to a different one, but it's possible. You can probably take an empty spike, forge it and then charge it with the correct thing and it would probably remain forged - if the forgery were to collapse, then the charge would stay in the spike, but it wouldn't fit the metal, thus becoming useless. Reveal hidden contents the_archduke (paraphrased) If the Lord Ruler captured Shai and gave her 100 days to craft a soulstamp that could turn an iron Hemalurgic spike into a steel Hemalurgic spike, could she do it? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, but she would need a boost of power to do it. Affecting an Invested object is hard. the_archduke [Alternate wording from stormfather's report] (paraphrased) Can Shai change Hemalurgic spikes? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, but it costs a lot of power and she wouldn't be able to do it alone. Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015) However, it's possible to steal someone's forged soul, if they forged themselves to be a Mistborn for example, you can steal that fake soul and it would work, but making yourself into a Mistborn is really hard and requires a lot of investiture. Still you can soulstamp people to make them into strongmen and then steal their strength to make really efficient Koloss for example. Reveal hidden contents Questioner If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen? Brandon Sanderson We actually worked this out. *laughter* Questioner Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts? Brandon Sanderson So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know-- Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Reveal hidden contents Aneesh If there's a Forger like Shai who plausibly had an opportunity to ingest lerasium and become Mistborn, but she passed it up, could she create a stamp that makes her temporarily a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson She would have to have access to enough Investiture to make that happen. The stamp saying, "Hey, I'm a Mistborn!" doesn't actually give her the Investiture to do that. She could rewrite her past so that she took that bead. She would not actually be able to use the power, until she got an infusion of Investiture, which could be done with a stamp in the right manner, but most of the time you're gonna have to have some external source. Basically you're gonna have to take a hit of Investiture, a large amount of it, and then use the stamp, and then it will feed on that to change you into basically any of the other magics. Aneesh Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson If you could get a hit of Stormlight, that'd work. The problem is, Stormlight's not easy to get off of Roshar, and it still is technically keyed. You could get it a lot more easily-- Stormlight would work fairly well, but what you really want is some pure, unkeyed Dor. That stuff, you could do all kinds of things with. But, you know, it's kinda dangerous. But that's the stuff you're gonna want, or something like unto it. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) No, that's too costly to make it work. Investiture resist investiture, changing a charge of a metalmind would be really hard. Okay. But what about soulcasting? If a metalmind can be soulcast to disapear could it be soulcast to a new type of metal and use that attribute? I guess if you could access stormlight you could probably just skip it and convert it into whatever attribute you needed when you needed it.
alder24 Posted January 23, 2024 Posted January 23, 2024 4 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Okay. But what about soulcasting? If a metalmind can be soulcast to disapear could it be soulcast to a new type of metal and use that attribute? I guess if you could access stormlight you could probably just skip it and convert it into whatever attribute you needed when you needed it. The same is with Soulcasting. Brandon answer it in the first WoB I've posted: Quote I've stayed away from soulcasting and forging in these types of discussions, as I feel my answers will dig too deeply and prompt more questions that, eventually, will lead to lots of RAFO type questions. I don't really want to go there--but I will say this. Changing invested objects with other magics is hard, and often requires such a force of investiture yourself, that it becomes very power-inefficient. Just like we can technically turn lead into gold right now--by spending way more money than the gold is worth.
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