KirbyTheTheorist Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 So, in RoW, it's revealed that Invested beings are Spiritually bound to their world, which is also hinted at in Mistborn Secret History. If that's the case, how is Hoid able to travel so much? He's a mistborn, awakener, sandmaster, and Lightweaver (plus whatever else I don't know about). I have two guesses for this. 1) Hoid's being pulled in so many directions at once that he can get anywhere 2) He's found a way to bypass the Spiritual Connections 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 For the most part this issue only applies to things heavily Invested with an Individual Shard's Investiture; they are tied to the system/world which that Shard has Invested, and it can depend on the Shard's nature too. Endowment doesnt tie the Returned to Nalthis, but part of that is the nature of Endowment being a "No Strings Attached" sort of thing. Presumably a Shard that is not specifically Invested in a single System could invest a Being without it becoming Tied to a single System. But yes, as of his appearance in TLM he is the only Radiant that has figured out how to get around the typical Connection issue, per WOB. I doubt he is Bypassing Connections, but we know he's better than most at Manipulating them already. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 6 hours ago, KirbyTheTheorist said: So, in RoW, it's revealed that Invested beings are Spiritually bound to their world, which is also hinted at in Mistborn Secret History. If that's the case, how is Hoid able to travel so much? He's a mistborn, awakener, sandmaster, and Lightweaver (plus whatever else I don't know about). I have two guesses for this. 1) Hoid's being pulled in so many directions at once that he can get anywhere 2) He's found a way to bypass the Spiritual Connections Hoid isn't a Cognitive Shadow like Kelsier or Fused/Heralds, nor he isn't as invested as Spren are. The ONLY power that prevents him from traveling is the Radiant bond, which is because he's bonded to a spren who can't leave Roshar. All other powers have no effect on a person's ability to worldhop. It's being bound to a highly invested entity that prevents people from leaving, because this entity can't leave. A Cognitive Shadow can't leave their system (except for Returned), Splinters can't for the same reasons. But powers like Allomancy or Sand Mastery are just written in your Spirit Web. Breaths are highly invested and they should act like Stormlight, but because they are tied to a person's identity and because by nature Endowment gives them with "no strings attached," they can be carried out of Nalthis with no problems. Hoid has huge knowledge of Cosmere innerworkings and thus was the only Radiant who managed to leave Roshar at the time of TLM. How he did that we don't know, most certainly by manipulating Connections with his collected powers. And this is a wrong place to post this, it should have been in Cosmere Discussion, I will ask mods to move it for you Spoiler Matias_Leibo Are the Coinshots that helped Steris with getting people out of the flood zone, and who seemed rather concerned with whether she was following the law, actually Skybreakers? Brandon Sanderson Ah, hehehehehe. So, we'll just leave that one. So, how about this. At this point in continuity, a Skybreaker could not easily get off of Roshar. In fact, by this point in continuity, I believe (you can't hold me to this one too much) the only Radiant who's managed to get off of Roshar and maintain powers is Hoid. I believe that's the case. Hoid is weird. He also has lots of knowledge. He used a specific method to get... yeah, anyway. Don't hold me to that, but I think by this point he is the first to get out of system. Off-world doesn't really count because you can go to Braize or Ashyn. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Spoiler Questioner If Hoid were to leave the Rosharan system, would that kill his spren? And would he still be able to use his Radiant powers? Brandon Sanderson As currently understood by the mechanics of the cosmere, he would just not be able to leave without breaking the bond to that spren. Breaking that bond wouldn’t necessarily kill the spren, but he would not be able to leave with the spren. You have seen him off-world post-Stormlight Five. So I’ll leave that to you. But he is trying to figure out how that would not necessarily have to be that way. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Spoiler Questioner Do Splinters require proximity to their Shards? Brandon Sanderson Do they require it for what? Questioner Function-- Brandon Sanderson Function. It's very hard for most Splinters to leave the realm where they were Splintered, but this gets into tricky stuff because the Shard mostly occupies the Spiritual Realm, but what do you mean by the Shard? Because the essence of the Shard is in the Physical Realm, it's all across the cosmere, and things like this. Usually once something is Splintered it is difficult for them to leave that area, so yes. Questioner And in the system-- Brandon Sanderson You see it with the-- I would call most Cognitive Shadows a Splinter in some ways. And you see it when Kelsier tries to leave, right. And spren would have the same trouble, and seons would have the same trouble. But at the same time is that a proximity to the Shard? Kind of. Things get very wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when you start dealing with the nature of the Spiritual Realm in the cosmere. Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017) Spoiler Badger1289 If Investiture can’t be moved beyond a certain point away from its world/solar system, how in the Cosmere did three Awakeners end up on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Investiture from different systems acts in different ways. Certain people have managed, for example, to get some kinds of Investiture to leave their home world through the use of a kind of magical pipeline. Breaths attach to the identity of the individual, and are fully given away--freely, which removes some of this Connection. It's a nature of Endowment that the gift is given without strings attached, so to speak. But while it's a renewable resource, it's a difficult one. Roshar is extra "sticky" so to speak with Investiture. It's part of the nature of Honor, Cultivation, and oaths. So getting it off is a problem, though collecting it is not. Echono Wouldn't consuming it also be a problem? You need a direct or secondary Bond to take in Stormlight Investiture. It's not like metals or Breaths that anyone could absorb. Although a certain grouchy ardent might have found a way... Brandon Sanderson You are right in that Stormlight is more being seen as a power source, since certain systems in the cosmere can work on a variety of different kinds. Not just anyone could make use of it, at least not unless it is refined. Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 8, 2020) Spoiler Questioner If somebody with some kind of magical ability, for example Allomancy, etc., were to travel off-world, would they still have that ability? Brandon Sanderson Depends on the ability. Some are easier to use off-world than others. You have seen Allomancy used off-world already. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) Spoiler Questioner Mistborn travels to Roshar, what does he or she use to get Invested? Brandon Sanderson *pause* So. *pause* I think I've talked about this before on the 17th Shard, but I'm not 100% sure and so I don't want to anything right now, not knowing what I've said. But you can look it up. You can ask Peter. Hey Peter, have I talked about someone using-- Have I ever in an interview before talked about using metals... A Mistborn travels to Roshar and uses the metals there? Peter Ahlstrom I think that you have said that they could do it. Brandon Sanderson I said it. Okay, so the thing about the metals you have to understand is the metals are a key, the metals are not magical themselves, except for specific ones. If I've already said that I can tell you, go to Roshar and you could use the metals that are there to power your Allomancy because the difference is in your soul and you're actually drawing directly from Preservation. Remember that on the Spiritual Realm, this is the big tidbit--they're listening. On the Spiritual Realm time, distance, and space are irrelevant. It's a place where time and space are compounded in one. So anything that exists on the Spiritual Realm, space doesn't matter for it. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) Spoiler Questioner In Oathbringer we have an example of a different form of magic on Roshar, like when Hoid uses Breaths to perform... Brandon Sanderson Yes, Hoid has used both Breaths and Allomancy on screen in the Stormlight books. Questioner Is this made possible through the Connection of Shadesmar and the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, you can bring almost all the magic to any other planet, no problem. The only one that there's a problem with is AonDor but that has specifically to do with the way the AonDor works. Questioner So hypothetically, could you see someone from Roshar become a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson That would require Hemalurgy. Could happen. A lot of times, where you were born, with a lot of these magics, is having a big influence on your spiritual make up. But it would require Hemalurgy, or there are ways to get around it. You could become mechanically a Mistborn. That's probably not a phrase we want to canonize. You could use, for instance, some of the tools in Era 2. Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyTheTheorist Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 16 hours ago, alder24 said: Hoid isn't a Cognitive Shadow like Kelsier or Fused/Heralds, nor he isn't as invested as Spren are. The ONLY power that prevents him from traveling is the Radiant bond, which is because he's bonded to a spren who can't leave Roshar. All other powers have no effect on a person's ability to worldhop. It's being bound to a highly invested entity that prevents people from leaving, because this entity can't leave. A Cognitive Shadow can't leave their system (except for Returned), Splinters can't for the same reasons. But powers like Allomancy or Sand Mastery are just written in your Spirit Web. Breaths are highly invested and they should act like Stormlight, but because they are tied to a person's identity and because by nature Endowment gives them with "no strings attached," they can be carried out of Nalthis with no problems. Hoid has huge knowledge of Cosmere innerworkings and thus was the only Radiant who managed to leave Roshar at the time of TLM. How he did that we don't know, most certainly by manipulating Connections with his collected powers. And this is a wrong place to post this, it should have been in Cosmere Discussion, I will ask mods to move it for you Reveal hidden contents Matias_Leibo Are the Coinshots that helped Steris with getting people out of the flood zone, and who seemed rather concerned with whether she was following the law, actually Skybreakers? Brandon Sanderson Ah, hehehehehe. So, we'll just leave that one. So, how about this. At this point in continuity, a Skybreaker could not easily get off of Roshar. In fact, by this point in continuity, I believe (you can't hold me to this one too much) the only Radiant who's managed to get off of Roshar and maintain powers is Hoid. I believe that's the case. Hoid is weird. He also has lots of knowledge. He used a specific method to get... yeah, anyway. Don't hold me to that, but I think by this point he is the first to get out of system. Off-world doesn't really count because you can go to Braize or Ashyn. YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Reveal hidden contents Questioner If Hoid were to leave the Rosharan system, would that kill his spren? And would he still be able to use his Radiant powers? Brandon Sanderson As currently understood by the mechanics of the cosmere, he would just not be able to leave without breaking the bond to that spren. Breaking that bond wouldn’t necessarily kill the spren, but he would not be able to leave with the spren. You have seen him off-world post-Stormlight Five. So I’ll leave that to you. But he is trying to figure out how that would not necessarily have to be that way. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Reveal hidden contents Questioner Do Splinters require proximity to their Shards? Brandon Sanderson Do they require it for what? Questioner Function-- Brandon Sanderson Function. It's very hard for most Splinters to leave the realm where they were Splintered, but this gets into tricky stuff because the Shard mostly occupies the Spiritual Realm, but what do you mean by the Shard? Because the essence of the Shard is in the Physical Realm, it's all across the cosmere, and things like this. Usually once something is Splintered it is difficult for them to leave that area, so yes. Questioner And in the system-- Brandon Sanderson You see it with the-- I would call most Cognitive Shadows a Splinter in some ways. And you see it when Kelsier tries to leave, right. And spren would have the same trouble, and seons would have the same trouble. But at the same time is that a proximity to the Shard? Kind of. Things get very wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when you start dealing with the nature of the Spiritual Realm in the cosmere. Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017) Reveal hidden contents Badger1289 If Investiture can’t be moved beyond a certain point away from its world/solar system, how in the Cosmere did three Awakeners end up on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Investiture from different systems acts in different ways. Certain people have managed, for example, to get some kinds of Investiture to leave their home world through the use of a kind of magical pipeline. Breaths attach to the identity of the individual, and are fully given away--freely, which removes some of this Connection. It's a nature of Endowment that the gift is given without strings attached, so to speak. But while it's a renewable resource, it's a difficult one. Roshar is extra "sticky" so to speak with Investiture. It's part of the nature of Honor, Cultivation, and oaths. So getting it off is a problem, though collecting it is not. Echono Wouldn't consuming it also be a problem? You need a direct or secondary Bond to take in Stormlight Investiture. It's not like metals or Breaths that anyone could absorb. Although a certain grouchy ardent might have found a way... Brandon Sanderson You are right in that Stormlight is more being seen as a power source, since certain systems in the cosmere can work on a variety of different kinds. Not just anyone could make use of it, at least not unless it is refined. Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 8, 2020) Reveal hidden contents Questioner If somebody with some kind of magical ability, for example Allomancy, etc., were to travel off-world, would they still have that ability? Brandon Sanderson Depends on the ability. Some are easier to use off-world than others. You have seen Allomancy used off-world already. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) Reveal hidden contents Questioner Mistborn travels to Roshar, what does he or she use to get Invested? Brandon Sanderson *pause* So. *pause* I think I've talked about this before on the 17th Shard, but I'm not 100% sure and so I don't want to anything right now, not knowing what I've said. But you can look it up. You can ask Peter. Hey Peter, have I talked about someone using-- Have I ever in an interview before talked about using metals... A Mistborn travels to Roshar and uses the metals there? Peter Ahlstrom I think that you have said that they could do it. Brandon Sanderson I said it. Okay, so the thing about the metals you have to understand is the metals are a key, the metals are not magical themselves, except for specific ones. If I've already said that I can tell you, go to Roshar and you could use the metals that are there to power your Allomancy because the difference is in your soul and you're actually drawing directly from Preservation. Remember that on the Spiritual Realm, this is the big tidbit--they're listening. On the Spiritual Realm time, distance, and space are irrelevant. It's a place where time and space are compounded in one. So anything that exists on the Spiritual Realm, space doesn't matter for it. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) Reveal hidden contents Questioner In Oathbringer we have an example of a different form of magic on Roshar, like when Hoid uses Breaths to perform... Brandon Sanderson Yes, Hoid has used both Breaths and Allomancy on screen in the Stormlight books. Questioner Is this made possible through the Connection of Shadesmar and the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, you can bring almost all the magic to any other planet, no problem. The only one that there's a problem with is AonDor but that has specifically to do with the way the AonDor works. Questioner So hypothetically, could you see someone from Roshar become a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson That would require Hemalurgy. Could happen. A lot of times, where you were born, with a lot of these magics, is having a big influence on your spiritual make up. But it would require Hemalurgy, or there are ways to get around it. You could become mechanically a Mistborn. That's probably not a phrase we want to canonize. You could use, for instance, some of the tools in Era 2. Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018) He is, however, a Radiant - which we know is Invested enough that he shouldn't be able to leave the Rosharan System. In addition, a mistborn would be similarly tied. This doesn't seem to be an issue for Hoid, though. Kelsier, as a Shadow, would have an easier time, I'd think, since his Investiture has faded (admittedly, he probably can't leave the Scadrian System now because he held the power of Preservation). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 2 hours ago, KirbyTheTheorist said: He is, however, a Radiant - which we know is Invested enough that he shouldn't be able to leave the Rosharan System. It's not because he is a Radiant, it's because he is bonded with a Spren who can't leave. They are both trapped, but a Radiant is trapped because of their spren. Spren are like Cognitive Shadows, they are made out of pure investiture and this binds them to the system. So yes, a Radiant can't leave because of their Spren, but Hoid somehow managed to overcome this issue and keep his Radiant powers. Spoiler Questioner Could a Threnody Shade survive on another world? Brandon Sanderson Theoretically, yes. But they are highly Invested, and leaving a world where you're highly Invested behind when you have that Investiture is difficult, as Kelsier discovered, and as most spren discover. Oathbringer Portland signing (Nov. 16, 2017) 2 hours ago, KirbyTheTheorist said: In addition, a mistborn would be similarly tied. That's not true. A Mistborn can leave with no problems because he isn't bound to a chunk of pure investiture, which a Spren is. 3 hours ago, KirbyTheTheorist said: This doesn't seem to be an issue for Hoid, though. Before Hoid formed a bond with Design he was not bound to any system, he wasn't invested enough. Him being a Dawnsliver (a former Dawnshard) doesn't bind him to any system in particular. Him being a Mistborn doesn't change that - we've seen Mistings and Ferrings traveling off world, like Demoux on Roshar. 3 hours ago, KirbyTheTheorist said: Kelsier, as a Shadow, would have an easier time, I'd think, since his Investiture has faded (admittedly, he probably can't leave the Scadrian System now because he held the power of Preservation). Kelsier's soul was infused with investiture when he entered the Well and this bound him to Scadrial. His investiture didn't fade in any way after he became a CS. Then he held Preservation but he already was a CS bound to Scadrial. His Ascension didn't really change anything in his ability to leave Scadrial. CS are invested with pure investiture when they die and that ties them to the system - Spren are pure investiture that came alive, this ties them in the same way. People aren't pure investiture. They can leave. Evan a strong Connection to a Shard, like to Preservation which makes you a Mistborn, isn't enough to tie you to the system, because that's not a pure Investiture of Preservation - a dead Mistborn fades into the Beyond in CR, like Kelsier discovered. Mistborn aren't invested enough to be tied. Spoiler Questioner I think there's a flaw in my understanding of Cognitive Shadows. I assume that... they would have more visibility into the Cognitive Realm, like a Herald would be able to see spren more easily, that kind of thing. Is that incorrect? Brandon Sanderson That is incorrect. A Cognitive Shadow simply means a copy of the Cognitive side made by a deep amount of Investiture. And everybody has a Cognitive side. Basically it's a fake soul. Or, fake is the wrong term. Fake is the wrong term. Even in-world they don't know if it's really them or not. It is Investiture has replaced the Investiture that is fleeing from them as they die, or enhancing it in some way to keep it around. So some Cognitive Shadows trapped on the Cognitive Realm are going to be-- have a lot of Cognitive-- I mean, they're there, right? But some Cognitive Shadows inhabiting a body in the same way that your mind inhabits your body, the way the cosmere works... So a Herald is going to feel like they are alive just like-- but their soul has been somehow transformed. It's not really transformed, it's been reproduced or copied by an injection of Investiture... And I'll say for the purpose of the recordings, I haven't canonized any of that terminology that I just used about Cognitive Shadows. I'm just talking about it, I'm not necessarily saying that this is how you are supposed to refer to it. You can refer to it however you want. I've often used the metaphor of how fossils get made. When a fossil is made there is a pattern and it is slowly replaced with another substance that is stronger and more endurant, and has the shape of it, but is it still the bone? When you have a fossil bone is it the dinosaur bone? In most cases no, but yes. It's the ship of Theseus sort of thing again. Is this the bone or is it not? Is this the soul? Is this the person or is it not? That's the same sort of thing is happening with Cognitive Shadows. And it's happening on all three Realms to an extent, though of course the body is not. The body stays. It's happening on two Realms. It's happening Spiritually, mostly Cognitively. Orem signing (March 10, 2018) Spoiler Questioner Have we seen cameos of Heralds on other Shardworlds? Brandon Sanderson The Heralds are tied to the system by the magic that permeates them. They could not leave. Questioner I thought I saw someone but I guess not. Brandon Sanderson It’s part of the magic. Some would call them Cognitive Shadows, right? Whether they are or not. "Cognitive Shadow" is a very ambiguous term in the cosmere. It means, basically your soul-- It's the same thing with petrification, right? Investiture replaced your soul, and permeated your soul, and your soul continues to exist, but... you are usually Invested with something, that's tied, and you're basically like pure Investiture then. You're tied to the thing you're Connected to. Most of the things that you're gonna see with that, travelling is going to be very difficult, unless you know how to do it. You have seen people do it. Questioner Who? Brandon Sanderson Vasher Brandon Sanderson Vasher... You have seen people do it. But anyone who's got-- yeah. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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