Duxredux he/him Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 (edited) Apologies if anyone has already posted this. I have an idea for what Radiants get for their 5th Ideal. 3rd Ideal they get their Shardblade, 4th they get Shardplate, 5th? They get a fabrial. Specifically, this is where all Soulcasters come from along with the Regrowth Fabrial that Nale uses to resurrect Szeth. The 5th Ideal Radiants gain the ability to lend not just their Spren as a sword, not just their armor, but their very powers to someone else, and this is why non-Radiant Soulcasters become Savants in a long-term fatal manner. Navani still doesn't know how Soulcasters work, other than they're spren? Answer, it's the exact same mechanism that drove her crazy about Shardblades and Shardplate. WoBs: Spoiler kvancleeff21 What was the fabrial used by Nale to completely revive Szeth at the end of Words of Radiance? That seems like an immensely powerful fabrial, and I don’t think it has been mentioned since. Brandon Sanderson During the last days of the heights of the Knights Radiant, they were figuring out how to replicate most Radiant abilities with fabrials. This is where... the Oathgates as a guide for that sort of thing. So you're just seeing a fabrial that can replicate what an Edgedancer does, or a Truthwatcher. There were fabrials created that could do this for all ten Surges. Okay, nine of the ten Surges. Bondsmithing is its own weird thing, as usual. So yes, it's a very valuable fabrial to have, and that is why you haven't seen much more of it because it is in the hands of the Skybreakers, and we aren't spending a lot of time with the Skybreakers. But yeah, it is a thing they have. And there are fabrials that can replicate the other eight as well. You've seen several of them in the books already. YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021) Spoiler ebilutionist Regarding Soulcasting, I have a question - why do people continue to use it post-Recreance? Would it not have been seen as a betrayal, given that the Radiants abandoned them? Why this Surge but not others? Was it simply the only Surge available and people would have kept using the others anyway? I guess it's a matter of practicality but given how devout Vorinism can be it does seem odd. Brandon Sanderson Good question. You'll notice that Soulcasters aren't the only fabrial that access a Surge, however. They're just the one most commonly used. There are plenty of rationalizations. But it comes down to this: they are too useful to give up. ebilutionist Ah yes, now that I think of it Navani's conjoined-gem fabrials seem to utilize Gravitation and perhaps the heating one uses Abrasion(?) to produce heat. Or are there others I did miss? Brandon Sanderson I was referencing a Regrowth fabrial, actually, which I believe has appeared several times. ebilutionist Isn't the Regrowth fabrial incredibly rare? I was under the impression it disappeared with the Recreance and only Nin's reappearance brought it back. AFAIK, only a Radiant in Dalinar's vision and a Herald have actually used it so far. Brandon Sanderson Their rarity depends on the time period in question. But yes, I'd list them as incredibly rare. Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 20, 2016) Spoiler Questioner We know that Soulcaster savants exist and Radiants are protected by the Nahel bond but not immune to becoming one. Can all Surges cause becoming a savant? Brandon Sanderson Yes, they could. Questioner Can other fabrials, such as the one that takes away pain and the one that offers Regrowth, cause some sort of savanthood? Brandon Sanderson Those, I'll explain the distinction in Rhythm of War. I get deep into the fabrial science. There is a big distinction between those fabrials and Soulcasters that will become manifest. Let's say that what happens to Soulcasters is more likely to cause savanthood and the side effects. San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020) Thoughts? Edited January 13 by Duxredux 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtrlAltDepressed Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 11 minutes ago, Duxredux said: Specifically, this is where all Soulcasters come from along with the Regrowth Fabrial that Nale uses to resurrect Szeth. The 5th Ideal Radiants gain the ability to lend not just their Spren as a sword, not just their armor, but their very powers to someone else, and this is why non-Radiant Soulcasters become Savants in a long-term fatal manner. Navani still doesn't know how Soulcasters work, other than they're spren? Answer, it's the exact same mechanism that drove her crazy about Shardblades and Shardplate. I like this theory, however we haven't seen any mythical fabrials other than soulcasters and one regrowth. When we see the soulcaster in shadesmar, it is described like a radiant spren that is not responsive. It seems like a much more permanent form. My head canon is that previous generations of artifabrians figured out how to trap radiant spren in a similar manner to the flame spren, gravity spren, etc that they use for their fabrials now. This would also explain why the Sibling was so upset with Navani for making fabrials. She remembers previous generations who were trapping intelligent spren instead of 'regular' spren (this might be stated in ROW). Although you could still be correct and the reason the spren was in that unresponsive state was due to them becoming a deadeye while in that state, similar to the dead shardblades. The problem with both of these theories is where are the fabrials for the other orders? Maybe they are all in shinovar with the honorblades and Nale picked up the regrowth fabrial when he went for his sword (did he have to retrieve his?). Regarding the soulcasters destroying the user over time, this would make sense if the user is not radiant. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the POV we have of the soulcaster changing herself to smoke, she doesn't draw in stormlight to power the transformation as Jasnah does. My guess is they are using tiny fragments of their soul instead of stormlight, and so their spirit gradually decays into the material (s) they soulcast. This also explains the savantism. Since she was gradually becoming smoke herself it was far easier to convince other objects they were too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, Duxredux said: Apologies if anyone has already posted this. I have an idea for what Radiants get for their 5th Ideal. 3rd Ideal they get their Shardblade, 4th they get Shardplate, 5th? They get a fabrial. Specifically, this is where all Soulcasters come from along with the Regrowth Fabrial that Nale uses to resurrect Szeth. The 5th Ideal Radiants gain the ability to lend not just their Spren as a sword, not just their armor, but their very powers to someone else, and this is why non-Radiant Soulcasters become Savants in a long-term fatal manner. Navani still doesn't know how Soulcasters work, other than they're spren? Answer, it's the exact same mechanism that drove her crazy about Shardblades and Shardplate. WoBs: Reveal hidden contents kvancleeff21 What was the fabrial used by Nale to completely revive Szeth at the end of Words of Radiance? That seems like an immensely powerful fabrial, and I don’t think it has been mentioned since. Brandon Sanderson During the last days of the heights of the Knights Radiant, they were figuring out how to replicate most Radiant abilities with fabrials. This is where... the Oathgates as a guide for that sort of thing. So you're just seeing a fabrial that can replicate what an Edgedancer does, or a Truthwatcher. There were fabrials created that could do this for all ten Surges. Okay, nine of the ten Surges. Bondsmithing is its own weird thing, as usual. So yes, it's a very valuable fabrial to have, and that is why you haven't seen much more of it because it is in the hands of the Skybreakers, and we aren't spending a lot of time with the Skybreakers. But yeah, it is a thing they have. And there are fabrials that can replicate the other eight as well. You've seen several of them in the books already. YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021) Reveal hidden contents ebilutionist Regarding Soulcasting, I have a question - why do people continue to use it post-Recreance? Would it not have been seen as a betrayal, given that the Radiants abandoned them? Why this Surge but not others? Was it simply the only Surge available and people would have kept using the others anyway? I guess it's a matter of practicality but given how devout Vorinism can be it does seem odd. Brandon Sanderson Good question. You'll notice that Soulcasters aren't the only fabrial that access a Surge, however. They're just the one most commonly used. There are plenty of rationalizations. But it comes down to this: they are too useful to give up. ebilutionist Ah yes, now that I think of it Navani's conjoined-gem fabrials seem to utilize Gravitation and perhaps the heating one uses Abrasion(?) to produce heat. Or are there others I did miss? Brandon Sanderson I was referencing a Regrowth fabrial, actually, which I believe has appeared several times. ebilutionist Isn't the Regrowth fabrial incredibly rare? I was under the impression it disappeared with the Recreance and only Nin's reappearance brought it back. AFAIK, only a Radiant in Dalinar's vision and a Herald have actually used it so far. Brandon Sanderson Their rarity depends on the time period in question. But yes, I'd list them as incredibly rare. Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 20, 2016) Reveal hidden contents Questioner We know that Soulcaster savants exist and Radiants are protected by the Nahel bond but not immune to becoming one. Can all Surges cause becoming a savant? Brandon Sanderson Yes, they could. Questioner Can other fabrials, such as the one that takes away pain and the one that offers Regrowth, cause some sort of savanthood? Brandon Sanderson Those, I'll explain the distinction in Rhythm of War. I get deep into the fabrial science. There is a big distinction between those fabrials and Soulcasters that will become manifest. Let's say that what happens to Soulcasters is more likely to cause savanthood and the side effects. San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020) Thoughts? Ok, that makes sense and I like it, but the question is who is the Febrial spren? Is it True Spren bonded with Radiant? Were they also hurt and deadeye during Recreance, but instead of being locked in a Shardblade form they were locked as fabrials? They don't look like deadeye, they are True Spren but they aren't dead. Which to me suggest they are unbonded spren simply convinced by people to manifest as fabrials, rather than 5th Ideal spren - Voidspren can be convinced to manifest without Nahel Bond. RoW ch 9: Quote Soulcasters manifested as small unresponsive spren, hovering with their eyes closed. So the Soulcasters did have a captured spren. A Radiant spren, judging by their shape. Intelligent, rather than the more animal-like spren captured to power normal fabrials. RoW ch 46: Quote “In the past, my kind found it difficult to persuade spren to manifest themselves in the Physical Realm as devices. It seems Voidspren are not as naturally … self-sacrificing as those of Honor or Cultivation.” Navani blinked as the implications of that sank in. Suddenly a dozen loose threads in her mind tied together, forming a tapestry. An explanation. That was why the fabrials of the tower—the pumps, the climbing mechanisms— didn’t have gemstones with captive spren. Storms … that was the answer to Soulcasting devices. Awespren burst around her in a ring of blue smoke. Soulcasters didn’t hold spren because they were spren. Manifesting in the Physical Realm like Shardblades. Spren became metal on this side. Somehow the ancient spren had been coaxed into manifesting as Soulcasters instead of Blades? “You didn’t know, I see,” Raboniel said, pulling a chair over for herself. Even sitting, she was a foot taller than Navani. She made such an odd image: a carapace-armored figure, as if prepared for war, picking through notes. “Odd that you should have made so many advances that we never dreamed of in epochs past, yet you’ve forgotten the far simpler method your ancestors used.” “We … we didn’t have access to spren who would talk to us,” Navani explained. “Vev’s golden keys … this … I can’t believe we didn’t see it. The implications…” 2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said: I like this theory, however we haven't seen any mythical fabrials other than soulcasters and one regrowth. Oathgates. They are fabrials. 2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said: Regarding the soulcasters destroying the user over time, this would make sense if the user is not radiant. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the POV we have of the soulcaster changing herself to smoke, she doesn't draw in stormlight to power the transformation as Jasnah does. My guess is they are using tiny fragments of their soul instead of stormlight, and so their spirit gradually decays into the material (s) they soulcast. This also explains the savantism. Since she was gradually becoming smoke herself it was far easier to convince other objects they were too. Soulcasters use Stormlight which is in gemstones of the Soulcaster, not souls of people. That's not how savantism works. Savantism is when investiture from an external source flows through your soul infusing it and merging it with the power. OB I-4: Quote Finally, the sailors managed to keep the dinghy steady. Kaza reached out with the Soulcaster—two of the three gems were almost out of Stormlight, and glowed only faintly. She should have enough. Spoiler Questioner 1 Do all Soulcasters risk turning into the element or is it only those using the device? Brandon Sanderson All Soulcasters have an affinity but the ones using the device are locked down much more than the Soulcasters who are Knights Radiant. Questioner 1 So they are protected from being turned into-- Brandon Sanderson Oh no they-- I wouldn't say protected... *clarification* Protected is the wrong term but that event, the savanthood and how it affects them and things like that is much less pronounced if you are a [Knight]. Questioner 1 Or is that counteracted by the healing as well? Brandon Sanderson Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms-- Questioner 1 You are not losing body parts to smoke. Brandon Sanderson Yes, you are not losing body parts to smoke. Questioner 1 What timeframe does it happen for the normal Soulcasters then? Brandon Sanderson For normal Soulcasters? It takes-- I mean, you've seen it happening in the books. We are talking [about] a process of years even decades, depending on the person. It happens to some-- Questioner 2 Depending on how often they Soulcast? Brandon Sanderson It depends on how often they Soulcast, and it depends on the person. Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017) Spoiler Questioner So Allomantic Savants. So I was curious-- That system-- When that happens, is it purely physiological, or is there something else happening in terms of-- Brandon Sanderson Uhh, it's physiological in a cosmere sense, but that can involve your Cognitive and Spiritual aspects. Questioner I guess the question there is, are there other similar processes to savantism with other-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yeah you've seen it. So, Soulcasters. Argent Where their skin turns-- Brandon Sanderson Where they're slowly being-- their spirit is slowly being merged and infused with Investiture that is having Physical ramifications. It's the same thing. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxredux he/him Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Ok, that makes sense and I like it, but the question is who is the Febrial spren? Is it True Spren bonded with Radiant? Were they also hurt and deadeye during Recreance, but instead of being locked in a Shardblade form they were locked as fabrials? They don't look like deadeye, they are True Spren but they aren't dead. Which to me suggest they are unbonded spren simply convinced by people to manifest as fabrials, rather than 5th Ideal spren - Voidspren can be convinced to manifest without Nahel Bond. Fair point. Uh, uh... I have a pure speculative idea, but a question first, do we know how spren procreate? They are the cognitive manifestations of concepts of nature and ideas. Honorspren are the children of the Stormfather, but I don't think that can be the case for all True Spren. So... the idea is that this isn't necessarily how all new True Spren are born, but for lack of a better term, what if the small unresponsive Radiant spren that manifests as a Surge granting Soulcaster is the brain child of the spren and the Radiant? There isn't necessarily a formalized Nahel bond, yet there undoubtedly would be a Connection. Lotta speculation, but it does put Notum's stance that the Nahel bond is far more intimate a relationship than if Kaladin and Syl had eloped. Syl and Pattern are also distinctly fascinated with procreation There's also this: Quote little wilson Is the gender of a spren bonded to a surgebinder based on sexual preferences? Brandon Sanderson It-- A lot of people are curious about this one… Not strictly but there is an influence there. But it's not strict. In other words Renarin having a male spren does not necessarily mean-- zas678 What some think it means? Brandon Sanderson -what some thinks it means. How about this you are more likely to bond a spren of an opposite gender-- a spren who identifies as an opposite gender, because spren don't actually have gender. But you are also more likely, statistically, to like members of the opposite gender. Those things have a correlation. Whether they have a causation is not a thing I am canonizing. Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016) So... the idea is that while this isn't the case for all True spren, and Notum himself is the great-grandchild of one of the 10 spren that the Stormfather created after the Recreance, perhaps there's another method for True spren to be born and that this is something that can happen as a Radiant becomes more closely Connected via the Nahel Bond to their Spren and as they more closely embody the ideal of the spren itself up to swearing the 5th Ideal. Yeah, wasn't sure how to phrase this one when I know that there's a pretty low bar for age range on the Shard. No, I'm not a die-hard Syladin shipper, not that I have anything against them. I'm fine if this is totally separate from my original 5th Ideal Fabrial idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 14 minutes ago, Duxredux said: Fair point. Uh, uh... I have a pure speculative idea, but a question first, do we know how spren procreate? No idea. Syl doesn't know it. RoW I-1: Quote How had the first honorspren—or cultivationspren, or inkspren, or peakspren, or any of the other intelligent ones—been created? Had they been shaped from raw Investiture by Honor himself? Had they grown out of these, their cousins? She felt so much kinship with them, though they were clearly different. Not as smart. Could she help them become smart? I think she once said that they go to a place where there is investiture and come back with another spren. Can't find it. 17 minutes ago, Duxredux said: what if the small unresponsive Radiant spren that manifests as a Surge granting Soulcaster is the brain child of the spren and the Radiant? There isn't necessarily a formalized Nahel bond, yet there undoubtedly would be a Connection. A brain child? A newly created spren would be devoid of Connections and Nahel Bond so that won't work. It's a new entity. 20 minutes ago, Duxredux said: There's also this: Quote little wilson Is the gender of a spren bonded to a surgebinder based on sexual preferences? Brandon Sanderson It-- A lot of people are curious about this one… Not strictly but there is an influence there. But it's not strict. In other words Renarin having a male spren does not necessarily mean-- zas678 What some think it means? Brandon Sanderson -what some thinks it means. How about this you are more likely to bond a spren of an opposite gender-- a spren who identifies as an opposite gender, because spren don't actually have gender. But you are also more likely, statistically, to like members of the opposite gender. Those things have a correlation. Whether they have a causation is not a thing I am canonizing. Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016) So... the idea is that while this isn't the case for all True spren I had no idea how this WoB connects to your idea 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxredux he/him Posted January 13 Author Report Share Posted January 13 15 minutes ago, alder24 said: A brain child? A newly created spren would be devoid of Connections and Nahel Bond so that won't work. It's a new entity. It's not though. Spren have lineage. A newly born human has Connections to it's parent, it's race, and the Cosmere has plenty of important heritable traits passed on via Spiritual DNA (not Physical, Spiritual). Who your parents are is totally a Connection. A spren child of a spren and a Radiant would totally have a Connection to both the Radiant and their Spren. The WoB implies that there are more than just narrative reasons for spren of the opposite gender to be drawn to a Radiant and that sexual preference is an influence. Seems relevant to procreation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 13 Report Share Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Duxredux said: It's not though. Spren have lineage. A newly born human has Connections to it's parent, it's race, and the Cosmere has plenty of important heritable traits passed on via Spiritual DNA (not Physical, Spiritual). Who your parents are is totally a Connection. A spren child of a spren and a Radiant would totally have a Connection to both the Radiant and their Spren. Not devoid of all Connections, but the Nahel Bond. So you not only propose Syladin but also a happy Syladin family? Or rather unhappy because they have a child only to make a slave out of them? Yeah, I don't think it works like that. It raises more questions than answers. 4 minutes ago, Duxredux said: The WoB implies that there are more than just narrative reasons for spren of the opposite gender to be drawn to a Radiant and that sexual preference is an influence. Seems relevant to procreation. Correlation doesn't mean causation as said in the WoB. You aren't meant to read anything specific into that and this is mostly narrative: Spoiler Narkac KR seemed to have opposite gender spren. Why is Glys male then? Is there something hidden there? Brandon Sanderson More naturally, the spren is opposite gender but it doesn't have to be. It's not a indication necessarily of homosexuality, but sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. More often, you'll attract spren of the opposite gender, but spren genders are very fluid anyway. You're not supposed to read anything specific into that. Paris signing (Oct. 22, 2016) Spoiler Questioner Does gender play a role in how a spren chooses a Radiant? Brandon Sanderson It does but it is not a strict... It's just spren are going to have preferences like people have preferences and that does play into it but there's not really any sort of strict... If you want to know narratively, behind the scenes, it tends to work to pair opposite genders together, because it just makes for better conversations and things like that. And it makes the cast fill out a little bit better with a little more variety. So that's why you see the writer side of me doing it, but in-world my kind of explanation is they have preferences. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxredux he/him Posted January 15 Author Report Share Posted January 15 (edited) On 1/13/2024 at 1:54 PM, alder24 said: Not devoid of all Connections, but the Nahel Bond. So you not only propose Syladin but also a happy Syladin family? Or rather unhappy because they have a child only to make a slave out of them? Yeah, I don't think it works like that. It raises more questions than answers. Well, no, I don't think the mechanism or necessarily even the relationship for family creation would necessarily be what Syladin fans are looking for, hence why there isn't necessarily causation with regards to sexual attraction. It's the formation of a new honorspren, the personification of oaths and nobility, which is an ironic version of offspring from a platonic romance, and entirely separate to the branch of speculation than the one I've seen kicking around that the blue-skinned Natan people have honorspren heritage. I wasn't even thinking in this direction until you reminded me that Soulcasters are True Spren. Age may have nothing to do with the size of a spren, but it also might explain why the True spren of Soulcasters are described as small, with the alternative simply that their substances is divided between the physical and cognitive realms. They're not mutually exclusive, and the material of a Soulcaster is much less than a full Shardblade. Besides if you're worried about child conscription, you're going to have to address the ethics of the spren that have been sleeping as Soulcasters for the last 2000 years somehow. Either they were awake prior to the Recreance and the Recreance somehow put them to sleep (easiest explanation is that they were bonded to Radiants and fit the rest of that pattern), or at the height of the Knights Radiant they convinced dozens of these spren to go to sleep indefinitely for the war effort and made no effort to wake them after they won the False Desolation and proceeded to the Recreance. If the fabrial spren fell comatose at the capture of BAM and added into the horror the led into the Recreance, why did the Oathgates remain awake? You also have to explain the rarity of fabrials that grant Surges: 5th Ideal requirement, voluntary coma, or other? The very existence of squires confirms the sharing of Surgebinding beyond the core Radiant and spren anyway, and generally at greater numbers than presumably one person holding a fabrial Soulcaster. Why build these fabrials when squires, Radiants, and long distance teleportation via Oathgates are a thing anyway? Having them be a summonable/retrievable method for a Radiant to remotely activate of Surges and being able to grant Surges to others as a byproduct seems reasonable, particularly if it didn't necessary deplete the possible ranks of new Radiants by tying up a spren that could eventually become Blade and allow summonable Plate. In fact, considering the Nahel Bond was the solution to copying the Honorblades and giving the power of Surgebinding to mankind, I'm far more comfortable with the idea that they figured out how to grant Surgebinding to others as the greatest expression of the Nahel bond at the 5th Ideal rather than simply figuring out a fabrial hack that totally bypassed the need for the Radiant bond to grant Surgebinding in the first place. As Syl notes when Kaladin fights Szeth, giving someone the powers of surgebinding without the checks of a spren bond is dangerous, and even the Honorblades were given to mankind as part of the Oathpact. I'll also note that the Coppermind notes this: Vorin teachings claim that [Soulcasters] came from the Almighty, through the Knights Radiant.[25] Though I'm not sure which passage it's referring to. Backing up to the question of where the spren would come from to form a fabrial at the Fifth Ideal, do we even know how the windspren that comprise Kaladin's Shardplate came to be formally incorporated into the Nahel bond? Higher ideals with more spren getting incorporated into the bond doesn't necessarily mean that they will be damaged by the Recreance to the same extent that the Deadeye Shardblade spren that formed the core of the Nahel Bond. Even Dead Shardplate forms partial bonds and Soulcasters almost certainly form bonds if they allow Surgebinding and Savantism. It seems a logical extension that a 5th Ideal Fabrial spren might just sleep rather than have their eyes gouged out as they aren't the core of the original Nahel Bond. Quote Overlord Jebus Adolin is hit by Parshendi lightning, and then his Plate reacts and starts blocking out the light from the rest of the lightning strikes. Is he awakening his Shardplate as well as his Blade? Brandon Sanderson So Shardplate didn't have as much of a problem as the Blades did, so if someone else were wearing that they could have had the same effect. Overlord Jebus So it's more just a function of the Shardplate, really. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, but I mean the Shardplate needs to be a little more aware-- You know. It didn't have as much of an effect on Shardplate as the Blades. Overlord Jebus That being the Recreance? Brandon Sanderson The Recreance, yeah. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) Spoiler KiManiak So, for Shardplate, when Kaladin killed the Shardbearer, which we know is Helaran, in Way of Kings, Amaram remarked that Amaram knew the Shardbearer was dead both because the Shardblade didn't disapper and also because the Shardplate began to fall off of him. And so my question is, is there some type of "lesser" bond between Shardplate and its wearer, like is it in sync with the wearer's lifeforce or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes. Firefight San Francisco signing (Jan. 17, 2015) Edited January 15 by Duxredux added thought 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 The part about Sylading was mainly a bad joke, I'm not concerned about it. 44 minutes ago, Duxredux said: Either they were awake prior to the Recreance and the Recreance somehow put them to sleep (easiest explanation is that they were bonded to Radiants and fit the rest of that pattern), or at the height of the Knights Radiant they convinced dozens of these spren to go to sleep indefinitely for the war effort and made no effort to wake them after they won the False Desolation and proceeded to the Recreance. If the fabrial spren fell comatose at the capture of BAM and added into the horror the led into the Recreance, why did the Oathgates remain awake? Do they sleep? Yes, they have closed eyes and are unresponsive, but I'm not entirely sure they are comatose or this is just the way they manifest. They weren't bound to Radiants during the Recreance because their eyes are fine. They seem to be in the same state as the Sibling, self-induced slumber rather than a true coma caused by the Recreance. Or their unresponsiveness might be a simple choice - the suppression fabrial spren was more responsive but didn't talk, when pressed further it closed its eyes. Keep in mind this was a corrupted spren, the power of the fabrial was not Surge-related and because this fabrial was being developed during previous Desolations, it seems highly unlikely that this was a corrupt True Spren - it's probably a Lesser Spren. The Surge Fabraial spren are said to look like Radiant spren and they likely are, but if that's true then why the Oathgate spren, which uses the Surge of Transportation, are in pairs? While the black spren looks "somewhat" similar to an Inkspren, the white spren looks like no other spren, not even close to a Lithgspren, who has metallic bronze skin and also grants this Surge. Moreover the Oathgate sprens claim the Sibling to be their parent, which is a weird statement to make if they are True Spren. This all makes me think that they actually aren't True Spren but they are some kind of species in between True Spren and Lesser Spren, made with assistance of the Sibling specifically to manifest as Oathgate fabrials. Other Fabrial spren are likely made in a similar manner. And that gives some credibility to your theory, either that the 5th Ideal Radiant can manifest a fabrial, or that a human and a spren can make a "child" spren - let's call it that. Or the Fabrial spren are made out of Lesser Spren, who are more "sapient" and take humanoid forms either because of manifesting in PR, or because they came from the group of spren bonded with a Radiant. Lesser Spren has limited access to Surges and that also might explain why a Fabrial Soulcaster causes Savanthood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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