Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 I have been thinking about creating lifeless and the maintenance they require. Part of me thought that someone who was killed by a shardblade would be the perfect lifeless because it doesn't actually cause trauma to the physical body. The problem I run into is how would they function. The 3 forms of shardblade we have seen all hurt them in other ways. Vivennas shardblade. Could you make lifeless out of something that has had its color drained from it upon dying? Nightblood. Is there any body left for you to use after he destroys it? Regular shards and honorblades. Burnt eyes. Would your lifeless be able to see and function or would they be blind? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... he/him Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 35 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I have been thinking about creating lifeless and the maintenance they require. Part of me thought that someone who was killed by a shardblade would be the perfect lifeless because it doesn't actually cause trauma to the physical body. The problem I run into is how would they function. The 3 forms of shardblade we have seen all hurt them in other ways. Vivennas shardblade. Could you make lifeless out of something that has had its color drained from it upon dying? Nightblood. Is there any body left for you to use after he destroys it? Regular shards and honorblades. Burnt eyes. Would your lifeless be able to see and function or would they be blind? Lifeless see the same way inquisitors do basically so cutting out their eyes wouldn't change much,However, a better way to make lifeless that have no damage to their bodies would be to find a returned get them to kill themselves by giving away their breath then make them into a lifeless then you've got your self a seven foot tall perfect lifeless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I have been thinking about creating lifeless and the maintenance they require. Part of me thought that someone who was killed by a shardblade would be the perfect lifeless because it doesn't actually cause trauma to the physical body. Yes, but there are some minor side-effects of using such a body: Spoiler little wilson Can a Shardblade-killed body be turned into a Lifeless? Brandon Sanderson Can a Shardblade-killed body be turned into a Lifeless. Yeees, it can be re-Invested. Yes. little wilson Are there any side-effects to doing so? Brandon Sanderson Uhhh, there would be side-effects. I won't tell you what they are. They would be minor, minor, mostly inconsequential side-effects. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Vivennas shardblade. Could you make lifeless out of something that has had its color drained from it upon dying? If the color is drained entirely, not only on the outside, but also on the inside, you simply can't Awaken it. Warbreaker ch 21: Quote The squirrel lost all color, bleeding to grey, the Awakening feeding off the body’s own colors to help fuel the transformation. The squirrel had been grey in the first place, so the difference was tough to see. ch 46: Quote She eyed her clothes, which were now completely grey. Out of curiosity, she tried Awakening the rope again. Nothing happened. [...] “Type Two BioChromatic entities,” he said, “are what people in Hallandren call Lifeless. They are different from Type One entities in several ways. Lifeless can be created at will, and require only a few Breaths to Awaken— anywhere between one and hundreds, depending on the Commands used— and they feed off of their own color when being Invested." 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Nightblood. Is there any body left for you to use after he destroys it? No. 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Regular shards and honorblades. Burnt eyes. Would your lifeless be able to see and function or would they be blind? Yes I think? Probably like regular type 3 Awakened objects - via Steelsight: Spoiler Questioner In Awakening an object when you give it the sort of Command like, go get the keys, or something. How does that object perceive the world around it? Since it doesn't have standard human senses, how does it see? How does it touch? Brandon Sanderson It is not-- Moderator Repeat the question. Brandon Sanderson Oh… go ahead. Moderator The question was, how do Awakened objects actually perceive the world. Brandon Sanderson …The closest correlation you have to this is how Inquisitors see. Questioner Okay, following up on that say, someone who has-- say someone with bronze who-- a bronze Misting managed to somehow get access to Breath and Awaken would he then be able to tell that object "Hey I sense this Allomancer over there, can you find it". Brandon Sanderson That is not outside the realm of possibility. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) 30 minutes ago, ..... said: Lifeless see the same way inquisitors do basically so cutting out their eyes wouldn't change much No, Lifeless see normally, through their eyes. Awakened objects like ropes and strawmen see like Inquisitors. But I agree, if there were no eyes, Lifeless would see like regular Awakened objects. Keeping Lifeless in the darkness is a bad idea, they are self-aware: Spoiler Brandon Sanderson Lightsong Sees the Lifeless and Takes Command of Them They keep them in the dark. This is a bad idea. They don't realize it, but the Lifeless are far more aware than everyone assumes. Clod in this book is a foreshadowing of that, and there won't be much more about it in the rest of the novel. It's one of the focus points for the sequel, if I ever write it. (Which will actually have a Lifeless as a viewpoint character, if I can find a way to swing it.) Warbreaker Annotations (March 21, 2011) 31 minutes ago, ..... said: However, a better way to make lifeless that have no damage to their bodies would be to find a returned get them to kill themselves by giving away their breath then make them into a lifeless then you've got your self a seven foot tall perfect lifeless. No. A Returned that gave up their Breaths uses up their own body color to Awaken and heal. No color, no Lifeless. Warbreaker ch 58: Quote In the midst of the rubble were a pair of corpses. One was Blushweaver, bloody and red, facedown. The other was Lightsong, his entire body drained of color. As if he were a Lifeless. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 51 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I have been thinking about creating lifeless and the maintenance they require. Part of me thought that someone who was killed by a shardblade would be the perfect lifeless because it doesn't actually cause trauma to the physical body. The problem I run into is how would they function. The 3 forms of shardblade we have seen all hurt them in other ways. Vivennas shardblade. Could you make lifeless out of something that has had its color drained from it upon dying? Nightblood. Is there any body left for you to use after he destroys it? Regular shards and honorblades. Burnt eyes. Would your lifeless be able to see and function or would they be blind? Unfortunately, Vivennas' blade might legitimately prevent the creation of Lifeless given the color manipulation stuff it has going on (although...regular shardblades do remove color from severed limbs...?), and nightblood is a flat out no-go since it vaporizes bodies... For regular blades though, yes, I believe they are the ideal tools for creating Lifeless! Spoiler little wilson Can a Shardblade-killed body be turned into a Lifeless? Brandon Sanderson Can a Shardblade-killed body be turned into a Lifeless. Yeees, it can be re-Invested. Yes. little wilson Are there any side-effects to doing so? Brandon Sanderson Uhhh, there would be side-effects. I won't tell you what they are. They would be minor, minor, mostly inconsequential side-effects. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/96/#e3180 The devil is, as always, in the details though, as there would notably be as yet unconfirmed side-effects and consequences to this method. What kinds of consequences you ask? Well, let's explore! The eyes would definitely be burned out as you noted. This shouldn't actually matter since Lifeless do not seem to have functioning circulatory systems (IE: they don't bleed when stabbed, they just...leak...?) So, while it's counter-intuitive, I would opine that the absence of eyeballs in the corpse being awakened would not actually influence whether or how the resulting Lifeless could "see," since a Lifeless with eyeballs can "see" without needing to supply blood, oxygen, or nutrients. I'm putting "see" in quotes because I don't think sight is a very good description of how Lifeless perceive things; they seem to just possess magical proximal awareness that doesn't require light as far as I can tell. This kinda makes sense when one recalls that nightblood has no eyes. But wait, what about the fact that Lifeless retain some of the self-awareness and identity which they possessed while alive? Spoiler When a Radiant heals a Shardblade wound on themselves, they create an entirely new piece of soul to replace the old and graft it on to their spiritweb, leaving a scar behind.[35] This healing leaves the wounded limb weakened and aching for a time afterwards.[34] This process is seemingly incapable of saving a Radiant from the instantaneous death of a Shardblade wound to head or spine. Well, the implication from the above seems to be that a person who was killed via shardblade cut through the head/spine would have the connection between their soul and body completely severed. Does this matter? Possibly. It could be inferred (hypothesized) that the corpse of a person killed by a shardblade might have significantly less (zero) spiritual connection (memory) back to its previous owner's spirit-web and cognitive manifestation, which is to say: the body might not be able to "remember" who it was in life as well as a normal Lifeless. This could mean that shardblade-killed bodies might produce only generic, unskilled, blank-slate Lifeless whereas the regular process does leave them with some of the skills and abilities that they possessed in life. This is...probably a bad thing. Hopefully it isn't true, buuuuuuut...it would make for EXTREMELY consistent and uniform results if it was, which is a form of power in and of itself. How about applying a humanitarian perspective? Well...execution by shardblade seems to be literally the gentlest way to die in the Cosmere, so there's definitely that... If the late-stage Scadrians end up leveraging "ethical-hemalurgy," (and they almost certainly will...) then I would expect the Nalthians and Rosharans to have no problem euthanizing their terminally ill to create a constant supply of identity-less soldiers who feel no pain, possess no memory or self-awareness, and live only to protect and serve. Excellent question, thanks a bunch! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxredux he/him Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 If you're going for minimal trauma to the body to prep them to become a Lifeless, then I have three options. Option 1 is bleed them out while replacing their blood with ichor alcohol. This skips to the step where you need to flush the circulatory system to make a long lasting Lifeless, minimizing decay to the body caused from being dead. A medical professional would need to say how painless a form of euthanasia this is though. Option 2 is Soulcast the living person into stone to prep them to become a Phantom. Option 3 is to use a Soulstamp to make the person die from a stroke or something similar. Person dies, soul gets ejected, seal breaks, body reverts, still dead. Shardblade probably works in a pinch, but these options are either more direct or have less side effects. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted January 15 Author Report Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Duxredux said: Option 2 is Soulcast the living person into stone to prep them to become a Phantom. If you soulcast someone to stone how well would they function? Do you think it would function on one breath or require more breaths to be able to move? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 25 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: If you soulcast someone to stone how well would they function? Do you think it would function on one breath or require more breaths to be able to move? Probably not on 1 Breath but the stone remembers being alive very, very well, it would be cheap. It's still a stone though, the 9th Heightening is required. And they would function like Phantoms. Spoiler Questioner Stone is hard to Awaken partially cause it's never been alive. On Roshar, there are tons of stone Soulcast corpses. Would these be easier? Has Vasher thought of this? Brandon Sanderson Yes, I would say that he has. And yes, they would be easier. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Spoiler EMTrevor Would an Awakener be able to awaken a corpse that was soulcast into stone more easily because it used to be living, thereby being able to create lifeless similar to Kalad's Phantoms without having bones in the framework? Brandon Sanderson Yes. That would definitely work. Tor.com The Way of Kings Re-Read Interview (June 10, 2014) Spoiler Questioner So the lighteyes that get Soulcast into stone, can they be Awakened? Brandon Sanderson *pause* So… Yes, but their soul is gone. When they get Soulcast into stone it is only the corpse, so yes they could. Questioner Would it be a lifeless or a-- Would it be like Awakening something inorganic or would them once being alive help? Brandon Sanderson The fact that they were once alive will help. There's a Spiritual Connection that still exists on the Spiritual Realm and that is going to help. But you're not going to get the person back. The fact that it is the exact form of a person is going to be really helpful. It would be a lot easier to Awaken that than it would be to Awaken other stone. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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