Teacher Suspended for reading Enders Game?

[guess]

See top of the page. There are links to a Forbes article.

Slashdot is a techie news site.

I read Enders Game a long time ago. I don't remember anything the least bit sexual in it. I don't even remember it being violent. The fight with the aliens at the end was sort of distant and abstracted.

The parents want charges pressed against the teacher?

http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/03/20/1749236/teacher-suspended-for-reading-enders-game-to-students

[Shivertongue he/him]

The only part I can think of that might be considered that is the naked shower fight...

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Wow. Ender's Game was actually on our required reading list over the summer for 8th graders. It's one of the few school-assigned books that more people than just myself actually enjoyed. It seems weird that what's mandatory in one place would be forbidden in another.

[SOM1else he/him]

This is one of the stupidest parents I have ever heard of.

Nudity =/= Pornography

pornography (pɔːˈnɒɡrəfɪ)

— n

1. writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement

2. the production of such material

Ender's Game is not pornographic, yes there is a naked shower fight but it is not a pornographic. Even here in Happy Valley Utah we know the difference between nudity and pornography, last semester in English class we watched a movie with full frontal nudity and no one was stupid enough to complain about it being porn because we were all smart enough to know it wasn't.

[Alliare she/her]

Honestly, that is crazy 0_o

In fact, I'm surprised by the fact thet the parents would actually consider even complaining about a teacher reading a book, unless it had actual sex scenes and so on. But this? It's just stupid.

I couldn't neven remember there was a naked fight until I read the article. And it's not like anything remotely sexual-related is described. Hell, you would get more 'pornography' by studying human reproduction in Biology class, and even if I don't know anything about what is taught in schools in America, I'm sure it covers that matter as basic.

[SOM1else he/him]

The only other part I can think of is when Ender joins Rat army and he walks in the barracks and Rose the Nose had his desk across his lap displaying an animation so it looked like he had enormous genitalia.

[Eerongal he/him]

I think you're being a bit hard on the parents. Yes, they overreacted. It would have been easy to just ask the teacher not to read the book, or ask that their child be allowed to go someplace else. This is what my mom did a last year with a similar situation. My brother (in fifth grade at the time) came home and said that his class was reading The Hunger Games. While this is a well written book, my mom did not think that it was appropriate for that grade level, due to the extremely detailed descriptions of violence. So all she did was get a few other parents on her side (wouldn't have been necessary, but this teacher is particularly stubborn) and got the teacher to stop reading the book in class. That's all these parents needed to do.

right, but they're claiming the book is something it isn't, and that's why they're upset. It's one thing if it's not an appropriate book and parents are concerned, it's another thing entirely if they're making things up and upset about it.

It's like if your mom had, for whatever reason, equated the hunger games to something like hitler's mein kampf, and that was why she objected, instead of thinking that the subject material is a little too mature for them. It's perfectly valid to have a reasonable complaint, but invalid to have a wild, baseless accusation.

Also: I'm relatively sure that somehow the internet is likely to blame for their misconceptions

[Joe ST he/him]

Also: I'm relatively sure that somehow the internet is likely to blame for their misconceptions

More likely to be their own lack of education, or over-protectiveness of their kids.

[Eerongal he/him]

More likely to be their own lack of education, or over-protectiveness of their kids.

i dunno, about 5 minutes researching anything on the internet can pretty well put it firmly in your mind that what you're researching is porn

[Thought]

It is a curious matter. Teachers are trained professionals. Parents, simply put, are not. There are parents who are, for one reason or another, themselves educated sufficiently to be able to intelligibly comment on the teaching process, but these individuals are the exception rather than the rule. Why, then, is education the only industry in which we allow uninitiated, uneducated, and unskilled passersby to meddle? This doesn't apply just to parents, as politicians do it too, but the former are most relevant here.

As a society, we grant parents the right to determine their own child's education. Yet, what maltrickery is this, that the parents of a single child can deny a classroom full of the children of others (and the subsequent generations that the teacher would have taught) the experience of a Science Fiction classic like Ender's Game?

[Riddlesinthedark he/him]

It is a curious matter. Teachers are trained professionals. Parents, simply put, are not. There are parents who are, for one reason or another, themselves educated sufficiently to be able to intelligibly comment on the teaching process, but these individuals are the exception rather than the rule. Why, then, is education the only industry in which we allow uninitiated, uneducated, and unskilled passersby to meddle? This doesn't apply just to parents, as politicians do it too, but the former are most relevant here.

As a society, we grant parents the right to determine their own child's education. Yet, what maltrickery is this, that the parents of a single child can deny a classroom full of the children of others (and the subsequent generations that the teacher would have taught) the experience of a Science Fiction classic like Ender's Game?

Has that ever been true? There are so many pointy-haired bosses out there.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-26-2011/weathering-fights---science---what-s-it-up-to-?xrs=share_copy

"It's like surgeons being the only ones allowed to perform surgery."

[Thought]

First things first, upvote because I love that clip.

Second, yes, it has been true and still actually continues to be so. Science is an interesting case because, despite the tomfoolery that abounds, it is still quite free. What is ethical and what is unethical is still controlled by scientists, even the government funding agencies are staffed largely by respected scientists (the current head of the NIH, for example, is Francis Collins, the guy responsible for completing the human genome project). For all the willingness of politicians to prohibit the teaching of Evolution in schools, none have tried to prohibit the use of Evolution theory in science. New scientists are minted with the approval of old scientists, their research is left to what they would pursue and what the funding institutions will support, etc. The most significant infringement on science was the ban on embryonic stem cell research, but even that was just limiting government funding, and even then it only denied the creation of new embryonic stem cell lines, not the continued research on existing lines. Science does currently have a PR problem, but that hasn't yet broken down the professional status of the field.

Of course, science has always been a strongly professionalized field, whereas teaching, by its inherent nature, is a weakly professionalized one. It is most kind to professionals in other fields who wish to come teach, and to teachers who wish to leave for other fields. This has unfortunately resulted in education being perceived as a fallback profession, rather than a profession in its own right. This is quite illogical in itself, since there is no profession more critical to the social welfare, professional vitality, or the economic prosperity of a people than teaching.

[Riddlesinthedark he/him]

First things first, upvote because I love that clip.

Second, yes, it has been true and still actually continues to be so. Science is an interesting case because, despite the tomfoolery that abounds, it is still quite free. What is ethical and what is unethical is still controlled by scientists, even the government funding agencies are staffed largely by respected scientists (the current head of the NIH, for example, is Francis Collins, the guy responsible for completing the human genome project). For all the willingness of politicians to prohibit the teaching of Evolution in schools, none have tried to prohibit the use of Evolution theory in science. New scientists are minted with the approval of old scientists, their research is left to what they would pursue and what the funding institutions will support, etc. The most significant infringement on science was the ban on embryonic stem cell research, but even that was just limiting government funding, and even then it only denied the creation of new embryonic stem cell lines, not the continued research on existing lines. Science does currently have a PR problem, but that hasn't yet broken down the professional status of the field.

Of course, science has always been a strongly professionalized field, whereas teaching, by its inherent nature, is a weakly professionalized one. It is most kind to professionals in other fields who wish to come teach, and to teachers who wish to leave for other fields. This has unfortunately resulted in education being perceived as a fallback profession, rather than a profession in its own right. This is quite illogical in itself, since there is no profession more critical to the social welfare, professional vitality, or the economic prosperity of a people than teaching.

I have seen that in peers, especially where STEM teachers are concerned, the top students very rarely going into education. Recently read something/somewhere that said most Math teachers are recruited from like the bottom 30%, in the US. Whereas countries like South Korea and Finland pay the premiums to attract the top students.

I do wonder what the teacher unions would say to a scenario like that, though, paying actual market wages. Would they allow 50k for an entry level Math/Physics teacher versus the 30k an English grad would pull private party? That type of stratification might be too much for them.

[Alliare she/her]

I think you're being a bit hard on the parents. Yes, they overreacted. It would have been easy to just ask the teacher not to read the book, or ask that their child be allowed to go someplace else. This is what my mom did a last year with a similar situation. My brother (in fifth grade at the time) came home and said that his class was reading The Hunger Games. While this is a well written book, my mom did not think that it was appropriate for that grade level, due to the extremely detailed descriptions of violence. So all she did was get a few other parents on her side (wouldn't have been necessary, but this teacher is particularly stubborn) and got the teacher to stop reading the book in class. That's all these parents needed to do.

Which age is fifth grade?

I'm serously surprised by how much importance is given in America to what can be (or not be) read in school. Nothing like this happens in muy country. You can have discussions about if Religion can be compulsory or not, or about what should be covered in "Education for Citizenship" (honest, there is a subject called like that). But you never get broblems with books, reading books, here. In fact, I believe most parents are more nthan happy if their children read something.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Which age is fifth grade?

I'm serously surprised by how much importance is given in America to what can be (or not be) read in school. Nothing like this happens in muy country. You can have discussions about if Religion can be compulsory or not, or about what should be covered in "Education for Citizenship" (honest, there is a subject called like that). But you never get broblems with books, reading books, here. In fact, I believe most parents are more nthan happy if their children read something.

fifth grade is age 10. Which may be a little young for detailed descriptions of violence, but I've never read the Hunger Games so I don't know how detailed the violence actually is, so.....

[Alliare she/her]

10 may actually be a little younger for The Hunger Games, yes. It would depend on the person, though.

Anyway, the book has more in the sense of political/moral implicatios than in actual violence. That I can remeber, there is only death that appears (the others you're just told they happened), and in fact the book spends the whole time telling 'this is a horrible world', but what you get to see isn't anything like that.

[Ironeyes]

Ohhhh, there's blood and gore, alright. It's bad. And, ironically, the teacher claimed to be reading the book because of the well-written imagery!

[Thought]

I have seen that in peers, especially where STEM teachers are concerned...

Heh, I never expected to see someone use that acronym in everyday language. I'm curious, might you be related to the educational field yourself?

Ohhhh, there's blood and gore, alright. It's bad. And, ironically, the teacher claimed to be reading the book because of the well-written imagery!

In the spirit of your signature blurb, "I don't think that word means what you think it means." Generally speaking, there is no reason that a gore-filled scene can't be well-written. Indeed, we would expect such a scene in any book bought by a respected publisher (such as Scholastic) to be so. This goes double for any such book that is then selected by a trained professional to display that very trait. Those familiar with the Hunger Games should, even if they don't themselves agree that is was well written, be able to easily understand a position in which that statement is valid. Thus, there is every reason to support the teacher's decision to use the book for the statement purpose. Where I am hung up is what legitimate reason there might be to oppose that decision. The gore itself is fairly reserved, it serves a narrative purpose, and its treatment is even ethically commendable (Collins focus is on the emotional and psychological ramifications of violence: she doesn't glorify it).

[Satsuoni he/him]

Uh.. What.

Pornographic Enders game? How? There is nothing sexual in that book. It is trippy, , there are some violent scenes, and one scene with nudity, and overall a book for people with tastes vastly different from mine, but not pornographic or erotic by any approximation (although... some people have uncommon fetishes I guess. One wonders if that parent was an S&M bisexual ephebophile, or something yet else (insectonecrophile?))

That being said, I regard Mistborn (especially 2nd and 3rd) as lightly erotic. As well as Alcatraz, starting from second. Don't let your children near them, people

So, my diagnosis: sheer idiocy. A child (if 14 is still a child, which I doubt) may be bored with many classical books, but none of them shall be banned based on content. They are classical for a reason, after all. Also, it is not like a person of 14 in our age is unaware of sex. Regulating such knowledge is probably better than allowing one to learn from experience.

[EDIT]

Bah. The issue seems closed: Link

Edited March 28, 2012 by Satsuoni

[Lady_Yasha she/her]

I heard about this awhile back and came to the conclusion that it was a religious motive to want the book banned from a highly-Catholic town. There really are a lot of closed-minded people out there.

[Jack the Halls he/him]

I... Don't even know what to say about this. I'm shocked, though I shouldn't be.

[guess]

I am thinking that people like this should home school their kids. They shouldn't have the ability to force their narrow beliefs on the rest of us. If you are so worried about something like this, then teach your kids yourself.

[Aethling he/him]

Just because teachers are educated does not mean they have common sense. It also does not mean that school administrators have it either.

History teachers have been sanctioned for having a Confederate flag displayed. Not the stars and bars, but the actual CSA national flag. Mark Twain has become a no-go in many schools due to political correctness. Faulkner was banned by many Mississippi school districts for years, and he was from there. The pledge of allegiance has been banned by some districts. Commencement addresses by valedictorians and salutatorians have been censored by administration to root out anything which might offend one person in a thousand. College classes have been denied discussion of books due to parents sending their 16 year-old kid to a college literature class.

Female teachers have gotten into trouble for offering bonus points for openning their legs and having the kids write down the color of their panties. This came to light after one of the kids told his mother that he missed out on extra credit because the teacher only opened her legs to one side of the class. Teachers have handed out razor blades in their class at times when tensions were running high at the school.

At the very least, the teacher should have gotten the book approved. There will be parents that complain about anything and everything, but there will also be teachers that think it is perfectly ok to read from the Kama Sutra in their class (as far as I know, none have been this incredibly stupid, but it is bound to happen one day).

[Thought]

At the very least, the teacher should have gotten the book approved.

Preposterous.

The reasons I say this are two.

First, the book has already been approved. It has been approved by other professionals who have used it in their classrooms. It has been approved by the historical significance of the book itself. It has been approved by its literary merit. Why should it need to be re-approved?

Second, since it has already been approved by professionals, the only people left who could approve it anew are non-professionals. That is akin to having other patients approve a doctor's diagnosis before she can give it to her own patient. Such actions harm the educational system in general. Professionalization is a necessity for quality, while placing a group under the authority of non-experts deprofessionalizes the field. It is the professionalizing influence of a field that expels the charlatans, snakeoilmen, and the tomfoolery that makes a field untrustworthy. Teacher is already weakly professionalized, largely due to its willingness to take in other professionals, and to allow its own to seek other professions. It is weakened by bloated administrative structures divorced from the actual craft of teaching. It is weakened by ignorant parents seeking haphazardly to enforce their ill founded opinions on the field. Requiring that a book like Ender's Game get reapproved would unnecessarily diminish professional authority and place untrained and unknowledgeable individuals in a position of authority.

Now, you noted that teachers and administrators can be absent of common sense. This is true, but irrelevant as all people can be absent of common sense. Teachers aren't infallible, certainly, but until they fall, their training and the approval of their peers has earned them the ability to perform their profession unmolested.

[Aethling he/him]

Teachers, by the very nature of their job, are held to a higher standard than the general public. All the teacher would have had to do was ask the school administration if it was appropriate reading in a classroom in that school and district. If they had said it was ok, the issue would have ended there because he would have gotten permission and a second opinion on the appropriateness of the material. If they had told him it was not appropriate, he could have chosen another book and the issue would not have occured.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Aethling