Why didn’t Wax use aluminum

[Nightstar The Bright]

Why didn’t Wax shoot Miles with an aluminum bullet. Miles couldn’t have healed that right?

[alder24]

29 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Why didn’t Wax shoot Miles with an aluminum bullet. Miles couldn’t have healed that right?

It's rusty expensive and in AoL Wax was broke. 

Miles would still be mostly fine, sure he would have had an aluminum bullet in his head, but he can heal everything around it and function properly until it's removed. He would have to use healing constantly but this isn't a problem for him. 

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

Just like when in OB Shallan was shot with a bolt in the head and healing sustained her for some time until she removed it. 

 

[Treamayne]

36 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Why didn’t Wax shoot Miles with an aluminum bullet. Miles couldn’t have healed that right?

Miles was shot with multiple aluminum bullets (Marasi and the aluminum rifle). He can heal that. The healing flesh pushes the bullet out of the wound track (and is key to Wax using Allomancy on him in the tunnels - AoL Ch 19)

Spoiler

They also left Miles sprayed with metal. Wax increased his weight and Pushed, though he found it hard to get a purchase on the birdshot. Any metal that pierced a person’s body or touched his blood was very difficult to affect with Allomancy.

Fortunately, Miles’s body obliged him by healing itself and spitting out the birdshot. In the instant before it could drop to the floor, Wax’s Push suddenly found anchors, and he threw Miles across the room and into the wall.

 

Edited January 6 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Nightstar The Bright]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

It's rusty expensive and in AoL Wax was broke. 

He had an aluminum gun/rifle rounds he could sell to buy the right bullets.

 

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Miles was shot with multiple aluminum bullets (Marasi and the aluminum rifle). He can heal that. The healing flesh pushes the bullet out of the wound track (and is key to Wax using Allomancy on him in the tunnels - AoL Ch 19)

Yes, that was what I was looking for, thanks.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:21 AM, Treamayne said:

Miles was shot with multiple aluminum bullets (Marasi and the aluminum rifle). He can heal that. The healing flesh pushes the bullet out of the wound track (and is key to Wax using Allomancy on him in the tunnels - AoL Ch 19)

  Hide contents

They also left Miles sprayed with metal. Wax increased his weight and Pushed, though he found it hard to get a purchase on the birdshot. Any metal that pierced a person’s body or touched his blood was very difficult to affect with Allomancy.

Fortunately, Miles’s body obliged him by healing itself and spitting out the birdshot. In the instant before it could drop to the floor, Wax’s Push suddenly found anchors, and he threw Miles across the room and into the wall.

 

 

On 1/6/2024 at 9:18 AM, alder24 said:

It's rusty expensive and in AoL Wax was broke. 

Miles would still be mostly fine, sure he would have had an aluminum bullet in his head, but he can heal everything around it and function properly until it's removed. He would have to use healing constantly but this isn't a problem for him. 

SA spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Just like when in OB Shallan was shot with a bolt in the head and healing sustained her for some time until she removed it. 

 

Here is my question.  It has been theorized that aluminum may have an AoE effect. If Miles is healing directly around the aluminum enough to have healing push the bullet out wouldn't that be good evidence that there is no AoE effect?  Also having a bullet sized piece of brain not work is bad day enough. If there was a sort of AoE effect on that aluminum wouldn't the amount of brain that can't be immediately healed around the bullet be more of an issue for Miles?  

Think a teeny tiny blood clot can completely cause paralysis on one side of a persons body. A bullet is far larger than a stroke and if Aluminum has any field or AoE about it then that part of the brain would remain effected.  Would you be able to heal enough close enough to the aluminum to actual cause pressure to move the bullet at all? 

[..... he/him]

49 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

 

Here is my question.  It has been theorized that aluminum may have an AoE effect. If Miles is healing directly around the aluminum enough to have healing push the bullet out wouldn't that be good evidence that there is no AoE effect?  Also having a bullet sized piece of brain not work is bad day enough. If there was a sort of AoE effect on that aluminum wouldn't the amount of brain that can't be immediately healed around the bullet be more of an issue for Miles?  

Think a teeny tiny blood clot can completely cause paralysis on one side of a persons body. A bullet is far larger than a stroke and if Aluminum has any field or AoE about it then that part of the brain would remain effected.  Would you be able to heal enough close enough to the aluminum to actual cause pressure to move the bullet at all? 

He wouldn't be able to push the bullet out it doesn't heal right where the bullet is because of that area of effect probably but The bullet would remain in his head but he could remove it later and he could heal it enough to keep him alive in the moment.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Here is my question.  It has been theorized that aluminum may have an AoE effect. If Miles is healing directly around the aluminum enough to have healing push the bullet out wouldn't that be good evidence that there is no AoE effect?

Actually, I think it is evidence for an "Area" effect. Compare WoA Ch: 58:

Spoiler

He tapped gold. He didn’t have to be wearing the metalmind to use it—he only had to be touching it. His chest stopped burning, and his vision snapped back into focus. His arm straightened, the bones reknitting as he drew upon several days’ worth of health in a brief flash of power. He gasped, his mind recovering from its near death, but the goldmind restored a crisp clarity to his thoughts.

The flesh healed around the metal. Sazed stood, pulling the empty bag from where it stuck from his skin, leaving the rings inside of him. He dropped it to the ground, the wound sealing, draining the last of the power from the goldmind. Marsh stopped at the mouth of the doorway, turning in surprise. Sazed’s arm still throbbed, probably cracked, and his ribs were bruised. Such a short burst of health could only do so much.

But he was alive.

So, Sazed tapping gold healed the flesh around the object. Miles, the wound was unable to heal "behind" the bullet (Blocked investiture) and the result was the healing flesh pushed it out of him.

(note - the time this happens in the tunnels, the shotgun pellets are normal, which was why Wax could use them to push Miles)

Though, I would not discount part of that be Intent, and Miles having more experience with being pierced by slmall metal objects. . . 

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Think a teeny tiny blood clot can completely cause paralysis on one side of a persons body. A bullet is far larger than a stroke and if Aluminum has any field or AoE about it then that part of the brain would remain effected.

A clot induced stroke is not about an obstruction in the brain, it's about an obstruction in the circulatory system that prevents blood from reaching the brain (which therefore starves for oxygen, nutrients, etc.). IRL brainobstructions show that, with time, the braoin will forge new neural pathways that circumvent the damaged area - so a Bloodmaker that healed with a foreign body in their brain should still heal new neural paths the same way. 

Edited January 9 by Treamayne
SPAG

[alder24]

On 1/6/2024 at 5:21 PM, Treamayne said:

Miles was shot with multiple aluminum bullets (Marasi and the aluminum rifle). He can heal that. The healing flesh pushes the bullet out of the wound track (and is key to Wax using Allomancy on him in the tunnels - AoL Ch 19)

  Hide contents

They also left Miles sprayed with metal. Wax increased his weight and Pushed, though he found it hard to get a purchase on the birdshot. Any metal that pierced a person’s body or touched his blood was very difficult to affect with Allomancy.

Fortunately, Miles’s body obliged him by healing itself and spitting out the birdshot. In the instant before it could drop to the floor, Wax’s Push suddenly found anchors, and he threw Miles across the room and into the wall.

In this particular quote it was not aluminum that Miles was shot with. It was just regular metal from a shotgun, which Wax even pushed. ch 18/19:

Quote

The mists seemed to draw back. Waxillium stood there, wearing a large, dusterlike coat, cut into strips below the waist. A pair of revolvers gleamed in holsters at his hips, and he rested a shotgun on each shoulder. His face was bloodied, but he was smiling.
Without saying a word, he lowered the shotguns and blasted Miles in the side.

Shooting Miles was, of course, useless. The man could survive a dynamite explosion at close range. He could take a few shotgun blasts.
But the shots caused the Coinshot to Push himself away in alarm. They also left Miles sprayed with metal. Wax increased his weight and Pushed, though he found it hard to get a purchase on the birdshot. Any metal that pierced a person’s body or touched his blood was very difficult to affect with Allomancy.
Fortunately, Miles’s body obliged him by healing itself and spitting out the birdshot. In the instant before it could drop to the floor, Wax’s Push suddenly found anchors, and he threw Miles across the room and into the wall.

I don't remember Miles being shot with aluminum bullets, nor did I find any scene like that in the book and I went through all mentions of aluminum in AoL Marasi shot Set's Lurcher with one, but not Miles because of that she had to hid the rifle and run away from the Coinshot. ch 18:

Quote

A second shot cracked in the air, and the Lurcher screamed. Waxillium twisted, raising his gun, but the Lurcher hit the ground face-first, already bleeding.
Marasi popped up from a shrub next to him. “Oh! That looks like it hurt.” She winced, looking concerned for the man she’d just shot with an aluminum rifle round.
[...]
Marasi hid in the shadows behind the broken train car, anxious, her heart pounding. The Coinshot had come hunting her after what she’d done to his friend. With his Allomancy, he’d have been able to see her wherever she ran, despite the darkness and the mist, so she’d tucked the rifle behind a few boxes and hid elsewhere.
It felt cowardly, but it had worked. He’d shot a few times into the boxes, then walked around and picked up the gun, looking baffled. He’d obviously expected to find her bleeding and dead.

Marasi didn't have an aluminum rifle, she had a normal rifle from Ranette with aluminum bullets. Those bullets were grabbed by Wayne after the ballroom shootout. ch 15:

Quote

With reluctance, he broke her gaze and looked at the pad. “Yes. You are thinking that I should talk Ranette into lending you a rifle. I agree. While I do think that it would be wise of you to train with a revolver eventually, I’d rather you spend this particular encounter with a weapon you use well. Maybe we can find a rifle that will fit those aluminum rounds Wayne grabbed.”

ch 6:

Quote

“Hey,” Wayne whispered. “Here.” He handed Waxillium something under the table. A revolver.
Waxillium looked at him, confused. It wasn’t his.
“Figured you’d want one of these.”
“Aluminum?”
Wayne smiled, eyes twinkling. “Snatched it out of the collection the constables made. Apparently there were ten of these. Figured you could sell it. I spent a lot of bendalloy fighting these gits. Need some money to replace it. But don’t worry, I left a real nice drawing I did in the gun’s place when I took it. Here.”
He handed over something else. A handful of bullets. “Grabbed these too.”
“Wayne,” Waxillium said, fingering the long, narrow cartridges, “you realize these are rifle rounds?”

The worth of a single aluminum gun colorized. ch 14:

Quote

“You realize,” Waxillium said under his breath, “that this revolver is worth enough to buy an entire houseful of guns? I think I might shoot you, for this.”

Wax was even suprised to see an entire gun made of aluminum. ch 6:

Quote

Only then did Waxillium realize there was no blue line pointing to the man’s gun. Tarson grinned, his ashy face topped by Wayne’s hat. Then he whipped around, placing himself behind Marasi, whom he gripped by the neck with one hand, holding the gun steady against her head with the other.
No blue lines. Rust and Ruin … an entire gun made of aluminum?

 

In AoL Wax didn't have any aluminum gun nor revolver bullets because he was broke and this technology was "surprisingly" fresh and really, really expensive. They had a few aluminum rifle rounds, which were given to Marasi. She didn't shoot Miles with them but a Lurcher only - she had no opportunity to shoot Miles. Wax simply couldn’t have gotten any aluminum guns and bullets in time. They had one aluminum revolver, with no ammo, which was given to Ranette as a “gift,” in return she allowed them to enter and gave them other weapons. 

 

37 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Here is my question.  It has been theorized that aluminum may have an AoE effect. If Miles is healing directly around the aluminum enough to have healing push the bullet out wouldn't that be good evidence that there is no AoE effect?

So, as shown above, Miles was not hit with an aluminum bullet, nor did he spit them out of his body like that. Aluminum bullets likely can't be pushed out by healing, because your body can't be healed in the place where the bullet is and therefore can't push this bullet out. An aluminum bullet would be stuck in your body unless removed by hand.

Aluminum has an area of effect, this is confirmed, aluminum hats are the proof of this. Aluminum disrupts in a field:

Spoiler

Questioner

Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor

Brandon Sanderson

No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

Questioner

So it disrupts like a field.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Kurkistan

What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay.

Kurkistan

Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you're talking about Thugs?

It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them.

Kurkistan

Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs.

Brandon Sanderson

What was he thinking of...?

There is some weird interaction but...

Kurkistan

In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..."

Brandon Sanderson

No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers.

Footnote: Referring to AoL sample chapter commentary.
Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

57 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Also having a bullet sized piece of brain not work is bad day enough. If there was a sort of AoE effect on that aluminum wouldn't the amount of brain that can't be immediately healed around the bullet be more of an issue for Miles?  

Think a teeny tiny blood clot can completely cause paralysis on one side of a persons body. A bullet is far larger than a stroke and if Aluminum has any field or AoE about it then that part of the brain would remain effected.  Would you be able to heal enough close enough to the aluminum to actual cause pressure to move the bullet at all? 

What's happening is as long as you can heal, even with aluminum in your head, the healing would magically sustain your body. But it would eat through your storages at massive rates. The bullet would not be pushed out, the wound would not be healed around aluminum, but healing will keep your body more or less functional. Sure, some defects and lowered functions of your body would be affecting you, but healing will keep you alive at the very least.

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

Just like in OB Shallan was shot with a bolt in the head and Stormlight healing kept her going despite having a bolt in the head and just like in RoW Kaladin was stabbed in his spine and Stormlight kept him alive. Healing was not able to push those objects out of their bodies (for different reasons, the bolt was stuck, the knife kept stabbing Kal), but was keeping them alive and keeping them functional as much as possible. Expect the same thing to happen with aluminum.

OB ch 72:

Quote

Shallan/Nananav let her image distort, features sliding off her face, dripping down like paint running down a wall. Ordinary Nananav screamed and fled back toward the building. One of the guards loosed his crossbow, and the bolt took Shallan/Nananav right in the head.
Bother.
Her vision went dark for a moment, and she had a flash of panic remembering her stabbing in the palace. But why should she care if actual painspren joined the illusory ones around her? She righted herself and looked back toward the soldiers, her face melting, the crossbow bolt sticking from her temple.
The guards ran.
“Vathah,” she said, “plesh open sha gate.” Her mouth didn’t work right. How odd. [...]

That … that crossbow bolt was getting annoying. She couldn’t feel her safehand. Bother. She poked at the bolt; it seemed that her Stormlight had healed her head around the wound. She gritted her teeth and tried to pull it out, but the thing was jammed in there. Her vision blurred again.

RoW ch 2:

Quote

A viselike arm grabbed him in an arm triangle from behind. A second later, a piercing pain stabbed Kaladin between the shoulders as the Fused knifed him in the neck.
Kaladin screamed and felt his limbs go numb as his spinal cord was severed. His Stormlight rushed to heal the wound, but this Fused was plainly experienced at fighting Surgebinders, because he continued to plunge the knife into Kaladin’s neck time and time again, keeping him from recovering.
“Kaladin!” Syl said, flitting around him. “Kaladin! What should I do?” She formed into a shield in his hand, but his limp fingers dropped her, and she returned to her spren form.
The Fused’s moves were expert, precise as he hung on from behind—he didn’t seem to be able to fly when in humanoid shape, only as a ribbon of light. Kaladin felt hot breath on his cheek as the creature stabbed again and again. The part of Kaladin trained by his father considered the wound analytically. Severing of the spine. Repeated infliction of full paralysis. A clever way of dealing with an enemy who could heal. Kaladin’s Stormlight would run out quickly at this rate.