10 Days to Prepare (SA5 Previews)

[Master Silver]

So, there are ten days to prepare, we know from some of the early chapters we know that certain main characters are back from adventuring. If Dalinar is to be his own champion and it comes down to a fight, he really will need a blade and plate. I suppose another radiant and their spren could lend him their blade, and he could use dead eye spren. I don't think there are any honor blades available. I thought perhaps he could form a connection with Oath Bringer and revive it a little. Remember when him and Shallan combine their powers to make that giant 3d map. Maybe Navani and Dalinar can combine their powers to semi-revive dead eyes. heal what was ripped out with life light? Finally, do we have any hints on what type of spren Oath Bringer and Dalinar's plate were. Although it is possible that by swearing the 4th ideal, Dalinar would get glory spren plate armor. But only ten days, where is the hyperbolic time chamber when you need it?

[Duxredux he/him]

Dalinar probably will have a similar attitude to the one he had at the Battle of Thaylen City. Despite facing Amaram Sadeas's army, he didn't fight with sword or spear but with ideology bringing a book onto the battleground. His Bondsmithing abilities and Ideals are far more potent than any Shardblade.

That said, they also are planning on hitting up Shinovar, so finding an Honorblade isn't out of the question. Also, if it came down to it, either Jasnah or Kaladin would almost certainly rather lend Dalinar Plate and Blade than let him go in unarmed and unarmored or with dead spren.

[alder24]

15 hours ago, Master Silver said:

If Dalinar is to be his own champion and it comes down to a fight, he really will need a blade and plate.

As Ishar proved, a Bondsmith Unchained is even more dangerous than any Shardblade. A Bondsmith is able to steal a bond between a Radiant and their Spren. This is the power that Dalinar needs to master, he doesn't need any Shardblade, he himself is a weapon far more powerful than that.

15 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Finally, do we have any hints on what type of spren Oath Bringer and Dalinar's plate were.

A Peakspren.

Spoiler

StarburstWrapperTie

What kind of spren is Oathbringer, the Shardblade?

[...]

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

Oathbringer's not an Honorblade. It was a Stoneward's blade a long time ago, with the corresponding spren.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

 

[Master Silver]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

As Ishar proved, a Bondsmith Unchained is even more dangerous than any Shardblade. A Bondsmith is able to steal a bond between a Radiant and their Spren. This is the power that Dalinar needs to master, he doesn't need any Shardblade, he himself is a weapon far more powerful than that.

A Peakspren.

  Reveal hidden contents

StarburstWrapperTie

What kind of spren is Oathbringer, the Shardblade?

[...]

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

Oathbringer's not an Honorblade. It was a Stoneward's blade a long time ago, with the corresponding spren.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

 

It is exactly this power that Ishar displayed that I think Dalinar should use to revive Oath Bringer. Even though Jasinah or another could possibly lend Dalinar plate and blade, the decades of experience that Dalinar has with his plate and blade can't be replaced. They know him and he knows them. I think this is foreshadowed in The Way of Kings, when we see Dalinar do superhuman feats like stopping the Chasm Feind from squashing Elohkar. Like Maya, I think they have revived a little bit. I do agree that his powers are his best weapon, but the Fused have ways of making powers not work. Although, Dalinar has so much investiture that I find this unlikely to work on him the way it did with Kaladin at the beginning of RoW. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:47 PM, alder24 said:

As Ishar proved, a Bondsmith Unchained is even more dangerous than any Shardblade. A Bondsmith is able to steal a bond between a Radiant and their Spren. This is the power that Dalinar needs to master, he doesn't need any Shardblade, he himself is a weapon far more powerful than that.

No. He doesn't have the weapon. He has a potential capability. Dalinar has never done this. He has ten days to train, not knowing what kind of enemy he will face. Odium is under very few restrictions on that.

On 12/29/2023 at 7:23 PM, Master Silver said:

It is exactly this power that Ishar displayed that I think Dalinar should use to revive Oath Bringer. Even though Jasinah or another could possibly lend Dalinar plate and blade, the decades of experience that Dalinar has with his plate and blade can't be replaced. They know him and he knows them. I think this is foreshadowed in The Way of Kings, when we see Dalinar do superhuman feats like stopping the Chasm Feind from squashing Elohkar. Like Maya, I think they have revived a little bit. I do agree that his powers are his best weapon, but the Fused have ways of making powers not work. Although, Dalinar has so much investiture that I find this unlikely to work on him the way it did with Kaladin at the beginning of RoW. 

So you want him to face an unknown enemy with a Blade in a state nobody has ever tested out?

After spending his very limited training time on a venture that nobody has ever attempted?

Edited January 2, 2024 by Oltux72
forgotten time expenditure

[alder24]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

No. He doesn't have the weapon. He has a potential capability. Dalinar has never done this. He has ten days to train, not knowing what kind of enemy he will face. Odium is under very few restrictions on that.

Just because he doesn't know how to use the abilities he has, it doesn't mean that he isn't the weapon, that he isn't dangerous. If you give a peasant a crossbow, even if he never held it before, he has a weapon, he is dangerous, he can kill. Dalinar is like that. He has the weapon (his abilities) but he needs to master it. The Stormfather can still help him, we saw this in RoW when the Stormfather suddenly advised him to touch Nale thus viewing the Oathpact and his past, instead of opening a Perpendicularity. In OB Dalinar with no prior knowledge opened a Perpendicularity and did something more that that with him being Unity. It's restrictive, he doesn't have much time to prepare, but Dalinar wields the most powerful weapon there is on Roshar outside of Dawnshards, he can still use it and kill, just like a peasant with a crossbow can kill a knight with years of experience.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It's restrictive, he doesn't have much time to prepare, but Dalinar wields the most powerful weapon there is on Roshar outside of Dawnshards, he can still use it and kill, just like a peasant with a crossbow can kill a knight with years of experience.

True, but not a reason to forgo more conventional weaponry.

For all we know, Dalinar's opponent could be a chasmfiend whose children Dalinar killed for their gemhearts.

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

True, but not a reason to forgo more conventional weaponry.

For all we know, Dalinar's opponent could be a chasmfiend whose children Dalinar killed for their gemhearts.

True, it's smart to have one, but relying too much on something you're familiar with, makes you blind to possibilities offered by something more powerful that you have but don't know yet. Even Dalinar said "it won't be a swordfight," he knows just having a Shardblade won't be enough, RoW ch 116:

Quote

“Regardless, an end is in sight. But I’m going to need help from someone before this contest arrives. The fight won’t simply be a swordfight— I can’t explain what it will be. I don’t know that I understand yet either, but I’m increasingly confident I need to master what I can of my powers.”

Even if in 10 days he mentally prepares himself to instinctively use his powers first, not his Shardblade, it would give him a big advantage in the fight. Dalinar's first impulse when facing an opponent is to open a perpendicularity, which truthfully doesn't do much harm - he tried this when facing Nale, he did this when facing Ishar. That's not enough. This has to change because in the contest this move would simply expose him to a killing blow. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

12 minutes ago, alder24 said:

True, it's smart to have one, but relying too much on something you're familiar with, makes you blind to possibilities offered by something more powerful that you have but don't know yet. Even Dalinar said "it won't be a swordfight," he knows just having a Shardblade won't be enough, RoW ch 116:

The problem with that line of reasoning is that it must be based on his acquaintance with Rayse. In fact Taravangian knows him. He may predict that. What really prevents Odium from turning this into a physical fight?

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What really prevents Odium from turning this into a physical fight?

The fact that Dalinar is the best fighter on Roshar and trying to win with him in a swordfight is just stupid.

[Master Silver]

@alder24 and @Oltux72 Good points on both sides. In terms of Dalinar being the best fighter. I think he distinctly said he was the best killer. Adolin is likely the best duelist, but for stormlight (this is not including the Heralds). I think it is universally agreed that Kaladin is the best... hate to qualify that lol. But Kaladin is the best Soldier. All of this however is only when you are talking about humans born on Roshar in the past 50 years or so. This El, that we see at the end of RoW, may have served as champion of the Fused in the past. In Chapter 28 of Oathbringer, Dalinar does ask if there is anything that can be done for his former shard blade (this could be a foreshadowing). Yes, his best weapons are his Bondsmith powers, but we see that even Ishar ended up using his blade against the Wind Runners and Seth. 

[Master Silver]

Just to revive this a bit. Give your prediction on what happens during the 10 days leading up to the contest.

Day 1: We sort of have seen what happens in preview chapters. Day 2: Hoid leaves, and the Radiants have their giant meeting. Kaladin and Szeth leave.Day 3: We get the reveal of what the enemy is planning and the Radiants start to counter it. Day 4: Things get worse and we see Kaladin and Szeth start to interact. Day 5: More traveling and prep. Day 6: Adolin and Shallon arrive back at Urithiru while Kaladin and Szeth arrive in Shinnovar. Day 7: The judgment of Shinnovar begins and Dalinar launches his counter attack. Day 8: Resolution of Odium attack. Day 9: The long wait. Day 10: Oath pact renewed and Talenel takes Dalinar's place as the champion and we get our duel. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

9 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Day 6: Adolin and Shallon arrive back at Urithiru

How? This aspect people keep bringing up was always a mystery to me. It took far longer to get to Lasting Integrity. And then they were fresh and had Stormlight. I do not see how they could possibly return in time.

Nor, frankly, do I see why they would want to. They are in contact with Kalak and have a Seon to report back. Why would Dalinar want them to hurry back? He wants to fight himself. There is no point in cutting himself off an unprecedented source of information just to have his son and a few Radiants back in time for a fight they are precluded from influencing anyway.

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Day 10: Oath pact renewed

Why? Dalinar has his duel, he has his peace no matter the outcome of the duel, there is no need for Oathpact to be remade. Moreover the Oathpact won't work anymore because Fused don't return to Braize, they are reborn in the Everstorm bypassing the Oathpact completely. The idea of restoring the Oathpact is useless with the Contest of Champions in 10 days, it was useless even before that. The Oathpact was already proven to be unreliable and only a temporary solution - it can't stop Desolations, it can only delay them for some time. And that's all without mentioning the horrific cost that Heralds have to pay for it - endless torture breaking their souls and minds. The Oathpact is a dead end.

[Master Silver]

@Oltux72 How you ask. Why by magic my friend. How else does anything happen in the Cosmere. I wouldn't be surprised if there was something just for an occasion like that. Besides a few oaths and a little stormlight and they are off lashing across the landscape.

 

@alder24 Why not? I am free to make any and as many farfetched predictions as I want. Maybe reforged would be a better way of saying it. The point is to bring the heralds back to lucidity and functioning. 

 

let's hear your predictions of days 1-10. It gives us something to discuss anyway. 

 

Edited March 1, 2024 by Master Silver

[alder24]

18 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

@Oltux72 How you ask. Why by magic my friend. How else does anything happen in the Cosmere. I wouldn't be surprised if there was something just for an occasion like that. Besides a few oaths and a little stormlight and they are off lashing across the landscape.

No Windrunner was sent with them to Lasting Integrity. 

15 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

@alder24 Why not? I am free to make any and as many farfetched predictions as I want. Maybe reforged would be a better way of saying it. The point is to bring the heralds back to lucidity and functioning. 

The Oathpact won't achieve that. The Oathpact only made them more insane. Their insanity is caused by how long they have lived for and by centuries of torture they've withstood. The Oathpact won't fix them - Taln is still bound to the Oathpact and now he is the most broken of them all. 

Spoiler

Questioner

Why or how are the Heralds the only ones we've seen so far that are affected by magical maladies due to either their high Investiture or long lives?

Brandon Sanderson

I would argue the Fused are having the same situation, so they're not the only ones. The why and how... there's a whole host of things going on here. Like a lot of physical and mental illness, it's not one thing or the other. But it is a compound of other things.

One is going so long without certain protections that you kind of need to take. The human being's soul might be immortal, depending on your argument in the cosmere. (That's really up to you.) But they certainly aren't meant for thousands of years of existence, the same way that our bodies aren't. There's some of that.

There's some of the things they've been through. Like, legit trauma; this is not all simply a magical ailment. You've got people with PTSD, layers of PTSD on top of layers of PTSD, for thousands of years, bearing things that no human being without their level of Investiture would even be able to bear. You've got that manifestation, you've got their own sense of guilt.

And these things are all just kind of overlapping together with the fact they've been alive for so, so very long. And a lot of the people that you've seen otherwise have not been alive nearly... orders of magnitude more for the Heralds. The only people you've seen that are that old are: some of the dragons, Hoid, and Vessels of various Shards. And you're basically at that group. And this is a group who knows what they're doing. Either they were built like the dragons, this is part of their innate nature, that they are functionally immortal. Or you are getting the Shards. Or you're getting people that are 300 years old, which is a very different thing, cosmere-wise, than having lived for thousands and thousands of years, part of it being torture.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

19 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

let's hear your predictions of days 1-10. It gives us something to discuss anyway. 

My prediction is simple - the duel won't happen, Taravangian will outsmart Dalinar and force him to break the terms of the Contest. Szeth and Kaladin will bond a little, Kaladin will help with Szeth's mental health, but they will ultimately fail to get Ishar's help. Shallan and Adolin will go after BAM instead of returning to Urithiru. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

My prediction is simple - the duel won't happen, Taravangian will outsmart Dalinar and force him to break the terms of the Contest. Szeth and Kaladin will bond a little, Kaladin will help with Szeth's mental health, but they will ultimately fail to get Ishar's help. Shallan and Adolin will go after BAM instead of returning to Urithiru. 

That would be a reason to reinstate the Oathpact, provided you can disable the Everstorm. Yes, it is not a good idea, but they may run out of options.