Anniversary Game 10/Anonymous Game 14: Tyrian Falls Apocalypse

[Oxblood Beagle]

7 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

which ones?

What I brought up earlier, their whole perspective of publicly hunting whoever shot them and jumping to the conclusion of the shooter being an elim.

Wouldn't e!Vulture...keep the hunting to the elim doc? They're doing it in the thread. There are 4-5 other people they could be working on this with instead if they are e but instead- this. If they're e I don't really understand their approach here at all.

Ostrich I've read your post and you want an info exe, that's fine. I follow your logic, I won't vote my village read though.

Edited January 10 by Oxblood Beagle
Typo

[Saffron Iguana]

5 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

I knew it was a gambit the whole time because Cham claimed Thug to me (+Mouse and Falcon) N1. So I stand by it entirely.

My issue with Cham is that they are undeniably playing anti-village, but for them that’s entirely NAI.

thats annoying. fitfully so. the question becomes do we think its worth it to exe them regardless.

1 minute ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

What I brought up earlier, their whole perspective of publicly hunting whoever shot them and jumping to the conclusion of the shooter being an elim.

Wouldn't e!Vulture...keep the hunting to the elim doc? They're doing it in the thread. There are 4-5 other people they could be working on this with instead if they are e but instead- this. If they're e I don't really understand their approach here at all.

Ostrich I've read your post and you want an info exe, that's fine. I follow your logic, I won't vote my village read though.

ah thats a good point tbh. the twtbaw arguement.

[Chartreuse Penguin]

5 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

I knew it was a gambit the whole time because Cham claimed Thug to me (+Mouse and Falcon) N1. So I stand by it entirely.

My issue with Cham is that they are undeniably playing anti-village, but for them that’s entirely NAI.

I know you knew, I'm just more curious if that post was meant to be in context of assisting the gambit (ie playing up your suspicions to see if anyone else took the bait of a Cham exe) vs just being suspicious. Which I think this answers but just double checking.

And I'll echo Iguana that playing anti-village is... not great imo. Especially when it's an Anon game and I have entirely no clue who Chameleon is. Trying to figure out if I'm still E!Reading them.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

9 minutes ago, Oxblood Beagle said:

What I brought up earlier, their whole perspective of publicly hunting whoever shot them and jumping to the conclusion of the shooter being an elim.

Wouldn't e!Vulture...keep the hunting to the elim doc? They're doing it in the thread. There are 4-5 other people they could be working on this with instead if they are e but instead- this. If they're e I don't really understand their approach here at all.

Ostrich I've read your post and you want an info exe, that's fine. I follow your logic, I won't vote my village read though.

Completely fair o7 I think you were a v!lean I forgot, so not too worried about your slot. I'm just not seeing e!Heron logic, but it's possible I have missed it or my brain dumped it.

1 minute ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I know you knew, I'm just more curious if that post was meant to be in context of assisting the gambit (ie playing up your suspicions to see if anyone else took the bait of a Cham exe) vs just being suspicious. Which I think this answers but just double checking.

And I'll echo Iguana that playing anti-village is... not great imo. Especially when it's an Anon game and I have entirely no clue who Chameleon is. Trying to figure out if I'm still E!Reading them.

I think the self-voting should make their slot identity evident, but I guess my player read of them could be mistaken

[Saffron Iguana]

4 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

I think the self-voting should make their slot identity evident, but I guess my player read of them could be mistaken

wait what-

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

Just now, Saffron Iguana said:

wait what-

Chameleon has self-voted at least once and their vibes align fairly well with a specific player in recent games

[Chartreuse Penguin]

5 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

I think the self-voting should make their slot identity evident, but I guess my player read of them could be mistaken

I've known a few people to do that, idk. And also I try not to use find specific players in AGs, generally. With a few exceptions. (Hi Mouse!)

 

Whoever took a shot at Amber Vulture, if you want to PM me, that'd be nice for painting a better picture of what happened this cycle, but it's up to you. 

[Opal Lion]

Do you really think E!meerkat would publicly ask the theoretical Seeker to claim to them? 

Asking because this is something I would do as a villager simply because if possible I would want to figure out what was going on.

And with Cham, the suspicion on them for backing off of Meerkat and then tunneling someone else doesn't seem warranted in the way that scorp? Put it. The thing that is off to me is the intensity of the push on Penguin without any build up to it in my mind. 

3 hours ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

Again, if anyone wants to come forward and claim to be a proxy for a seeker who scanned me N2, go ahead, but otherwise you have no proof. Besides, if I'm e!Cham, why would I make this whole ordeal? Especially if I'm a thug, I'd rather sacrifice myself twice in order to stifle to village,

I don't understand where this part comes from though. Like. At all. You still think someone seeked you? Despite the seek being a scam? 

EDIT:

I don't quite understand the clears on alb, one reason I don't trust them is that their analyses....analysi? Analysises? And contributions have been removed from the current discussions and in their own little bubble. This could to some appear villagery as a villager just working by themselves and trying to solve but being sort of lost in thread. I only don't see it this way because from takes on them I assume they are in some active PM/groups. If I am wrong about this fact then someone please correct me. 

[Quartz Zebra]

You haven't lived if you haven't self voted at least once. 

2 hours ago, Saffron Iguana said:

ya ;_;

Vote Tally

Mint Heron (3): Amber Vulture, Quartz Zebra, Salmon Meerkat

Pearl Chameleon (3): Chartreuse Penguin, Oxblood Beagle, Pearl Chameleon

Amber Vulture (2): Amethyst Scorpion, Fuchsia Ostrich

Amethyst Scorpion (1): Coral Swan

Chartreuse Penguin (1): Opal Lion

Mauve Crocodile (1): Saffron Iguana

Updating this to:

Mint Heron (4): Amber Vulture, Quartz Zebra, Amethyst Scorpion, Oxblood Beagle 

Pearl Chameleon (2): Chartreuse Penguin, Pearl Chameleon

Amber Vulture (2):  Fuchsia Ostrich, Salmon Meerkat 

Amethyst Scorpion (1): Coral Swan

Chartreuse Penguin (1): Opal Lion

Mauve Crocodile (1): Saffron Iguana

 

If the side trains wouldn't mind consolidating to push us out of vote manip territory, that'd be appreciated! Again, I don't necessarily think your picks are wrong, we are just limited to one exe per day! 

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

Eh. I guess I'm fine with a Heron exe. If they flip red that will clear half of my concerns, although my instincts really don't think it's a hit. As such I am going to leave my vote as is and deal with the repercussions, should egg land on my face. 

@Opal Lion I'll get to you on Albatross later. Mine is a weak town lean (given the fact that it's several turns old and I can't remember the reasoning, but PMs might have been a factor). I've been meaning to revisit their slot so it works out. Please hold me to it if you can, unlike how I failed to remind @Sage Kangaroo that it's been far beyond 12 hours.

Might be open to a Kangaroo flash wagon ig. Did they post that 12 hour thing after the Chameleon Seeker RT? If so am wondering if that came from a confused elim PoV

6 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

Might be open to a Kangaroo flash wagon ig. Did they post that 12 hour thing after the Chameleon Seeker RT? If so am wondering if that came from a confused elim PoV

Just went and answered my own question. It was after Cham claimed Falcon got scanned C1

Edited January 10 by Fuchsia Ostrich

[Coral Swan]

Alright, while I still think that there’s something to be gleaned from the day 2 votes, I’m going to unvote Scorpion because it seems like Chameleon cannibalized the entire thread by lying, and set things up so that we wouldn’t want to vote for them. But that reasoning is based on claims that we have no backing for.

I read some of Heron’s recent posts and I don’t really know what people find suspicious. Was there something from D1 that I missed?

[Chartreuse Penguin]

Chameleon

Heron

Besides Chameleon, no one's really tried to detract from Heron's exe, which makes me a little nervous. But I'm not sure where else to go.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

9 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Chameleon

Heron

Besides Chameleon, no one's really tried to detract from Heron's exe, which makes me a little nervous. But I'm not sure where else to go.

What am I? Chopped liver?

[Quartz Zebra]

14 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Besides Chameleon, no one's really tried to detract from Heron's exe, which makes me a little nervous

It's not defending, it's redirecting! 

28 minutes ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

Might be open to a Kangaroo flash wagon ig. 

^

Edited January 10 by Quartz Zebra
Forgot to be excited!!! Yay!!

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

Kangaroo for science ig

Edited January 10 by Fuchsia Ostrich

[Saffron Iguana]

I’ll science I can’t claim to be able to redact it

Sage Kangaroo

 

edit: this is to say idk if I’ll be on at eod to switch. Take this as more pressure kangaroo. Towntell.

Edited January 10 by Saffron Iguana

[Opal Lion]

Sage Kangaroo

I don't understand how people are still comfortable with the Heron train with how little resistance it's gotten.

It's possible that they are teamed with Pearl and this is some sort of attempt to get heat off of them, since they did claim when heron was at 3 and they were only at 1. Still, you have to think Pearl is an Elim to be voting on Heron right now.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

Mint Heron (5): Amber Vulture, Quartz Zebra, Amethyst Scorpion, Oxblood Beagle, Chartreuse Penguin

Sage Kangaroo (3): Fuchsia Ostrich, Saffron Iguana, Opal Lion

Pearl Chameleon (2): Pearl Chameleon, Coral Swan

Amber Vulture (1): Salmon Meerkat 

Amethyst Scorpion (1): Coral Swan

Edited January 10 by Fuchsia Ostrich

[Pearl Chameleon]

2 hours ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

4. If the objective was to get the elims to hit you, why did you just ruin that objective by outing yourself?

6. I would like reasons on all of these.

8. My answer is because either you want to draw out the real MB (presumably the one who shot Vulture) or just as cover for yourself but tbh this whole convoluted thing is probably my main reason I would v read you. 

Why in your mind is the only way you’re evil if you’re not a Thug and did indeed get scanned that makes no sense??? Like, yes I vouch that you had this plan, but that doesn’t mean I trust you.

I don’t necessarily agree that two village thugs doesn’t make sense though. If there’s a third I’d be far more suspect.

Like. On one hand I think you claiming thug openly is clearly elimmy because no optimal villager would do that but on the other I get the feeling that you aren’t playing optimally regardless of anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ as evidenced by your freaking self vote can you stop doing that like actually >>

also @Pearl Chameleon Beagle was asking why you shot down Falcon’s PM scheme idea D1 but were so quick to do this.

Like I have no clue who I end up on today but I can’t shake the feeling Cham will will just flip v and vulture would flip v and idk what to do I might just flip a coin

WHY does meerkat tow the twtbaw line so perfectly 

mouse come baaaaaaaaaack

Heron

4. Dude. It's. My. Role. 

I don't care what you think about it

The gambit was half trashed anyways, and I don't see a reason for the village to ML me twice and lose should I hold on to this god Forsaken gambit

6. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from this whole ordeal, but I can confidentially say that Lion is village, mainly due to their line of questioning and the interaction they had with penguin. Again, I've listed out before why I think penguin is the elim, and since no one seems to care, I will not be wasting my time listing them again.

8. I already know the real mistborn who shot vulture, and if I wanted to find out, I would've claimed that I shot vulture and waited for the counterclaim.

How is claiming thug inherently evil? I can claim whatever I want, mainly because it's my role and not yours. Like, what would you have wanted me to do instead? If I'm a villager, I'm going to try to avoid being Exe'd. If I'm a Elim, I'm going to try and avoid being Exe'd. Claiming thug is strictly to avoid a double village ml. Like, how is any of that ai? Your line of reasoning just doesn't make sense.

1 hour ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

I knew it was a gambit the whole time because Cham claimed Thug to me (+Mouse and Falcon) N1. So I stand by it entirely.

My issue with Cham is that they are undeniably playing anti-village, but for them that’s entirely NAI.

If you seriously think I'm genuinely gamethrowing, contact the IM or something. It's not my problem.

1 hour ago, Fuchsia Ostrich said:

Chameleon has self-voted at least once and their vibes align fairly well with a specific player in recent games

I'm not doing the storming MR67 philosophy about whether or not I would self vote if Elim. Mainly because I DON'T CARE

1 hour ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I know you knew, I'm just more curious if that post was meant to be in context of assisting the gambit (ie playing up your suspicions to see if anyone else took the bait of a Cham exe) vs just being suspicious. Which I think this answers but just double checking.

And I'll echo Iguana that playing anti-village is... not great imo. Especially when it's an Anon game and I have entirely no clue who Chameleon is. Trying to figure out if I'm still E!Reading them.

Amethyst Scorpion voting me was not planned.

2 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Okay. Many things. Getting to the gambit when it gets to there in thread-time.

Really don't like the sheeping of my vote here.

 

Or here. Also, asking for the Seeker... not entirely sure how to read that, but not something entirely Village I suspect.

 

... or here.

Self-voting is a weird meta: I can see it when you legitimately want the Village to have your flip, or when you'd rather just be exed and be done with the game, or mostly some combination of the two. None of those really combine with "Green-Scanned Village Mistborn". I don't know what's going through Chameleon's head here, though, so idk. (Also, you're not technically supposed to edit in votes, but with the new merge changes idk how that works.)

(Penguin Is Elim Counter: 1)

 

Scorpion moves of Chameleon almost immediately. I don't even know.

 

(Penguin Is Elim Counter: 2)

For reference, the "more things to perhaps come to light" was mostly me waiting on a PM response from the individual I guessed most likely to be your Seeker (REDACTED), as well as the individual I guessed most likely to have shot at Vulture (who I also concluded was Heron).

3 Smokers don't interact with 3 Mistborn, 3 Smokers interact with the Seeker. The Seeker interacts with the 3 Mistborn. A Village Seeker with the power to find three Village Mistborn to do things with seems way too potent to actually be a correct distro. 3 Smokers indicates a distrust of the Seeker. 3 Mistborn on its own is also powerful and distro-questioning, hence my efforts to actually locate the Third Mistborn in addition to suspecting you.

 

Really hard for the Village to tell the difference between Mistborn 1 telling the truth about what metal they (didn't) use and Mistborn 2 existing but not saying anything, versus Mistborn 1 just lying about what metal they used. Especially right now, on D3 with four total flips.

Does it make sense for that to happen? Not really. Does any other explanation make sense? Also not really.

(Also, you did lie about what metal you used, technically. But more on that later.)

 

@Salmon Meerkat, were you aware of Chameleon trying a gambit at this point / from the start? Or otherwise why did you say this?

Also confused by the /j accompanying a very real vote, but that might just be a tone thing.

 

(Penguin Is Elim Counter: 3)

 

@Quartz Zebra, curious how much you stand by this now post-gambit.

 

I think Beagle responded to these points as well, but I might as well if I'm going through everything.

1. This depends what you think. If you think that there's an Elim between you and the Seeker, then the Seeker is the Elim. So, out the Seeker (either in thread or in PMs with those you trust). But IMO, a Seeker who you don't initially trust, doesn't tell you who they scanned C1, and then conveniently scanned the C1 Spiked kill isn't trustworthy.
2. As Beagle mentioned, E!Chameleon means you're lying about the Seeker, and using it as some way to justify your claim as the third Mistborn.
3. E!Seekers can play essentially two ways: work to identify good NKs for the Elim team, or pretend to be V!Seekers and assemble a tainted trust circle. The first won't claim at all, or won't claim without an NK following soon, and will also tend to not mistakenly create a true trust circle (perhaps by not having prior scan data). The second is more on gut.
4. You've asked both why E!Chameleon and V!Chameleon would claim in thread, and are asking Beagle why V!Chameleon would undergo the actions that ostensibly-V!Chameleon is actively undergoing. I am confused.

 

(Penguin Is Elim Counter: 4)

"We" mostly referenced the thread, which shifted tracks from mostly discussing Heron and Vulture to discussing Chameleon and a Seeker.

 

(Penguin Is Elim Counter: 5)

Why say you have evidence and wait for someone to ask in order to present it?

 

(Penguin Is Elim Counter:

I'm counting this one double. Because... I'm really questioning what the purpose of it is. You tag half of the player list, including two players under inactivity warnings, to get them to try and vote me? All before presenting the evidence you alluded to previously? When, if the votes seem to be where they are, neither of us are actually leading and Heron is?

Why?

I don't even know if I E!Read this, because I don't even know if an Elim would be so bold as to do it.

 

@Amethyst Scorpion, curious how much you stand by this post-gambit.

 

(Penguin Is Elim Counter: 9)

And there we go.

Cham, if you're a Village Mistborn who rolled Thug today, this might be one of the the most hilariously effective plays of AG history! And I mean that sincerely. Double-switcheroos are great.

Outside of that, I don't know what to believe.

"Reaction Tests" are weird. Part of SE, IMO, is about reading the reactions of playing the game. Thus the entire thread is a reaction test. I'm a bit curious what the point of this one was, though. Was it to find who bought it, and who didn't? Or who was hedging their bets with the fake-claim and who wasn't? Or was it just a reaction test for the sake of doing a reaction test?

Take AG8. A certain Kasimir (Meerkat, then) used a Tineye message to fake being Elim Scanned by a nonexistent Seeker. The point of that one wasn't to figure out who suspected Meerkat, the point was to figure out who didn't or who was hedging their belief, because the Elim team would clearly know that Meerkat wasn't an Elim and that they didn't send that Tineye message. And it worked, to a fairly strong degree - both in the thread at that point, and post-game when his fancy chart was mapped to the actual Elim team.

So with this one, what exactly were you looking for?

Because, in addition to all the "Penguin Is Elim" posts, the thing I'm noticing is there's a lot of people who knew about this gambit ahead of time. Scorpion, Iguana, and Zebra all were told directly. Meerkat and Ostrich seem to know Mouse was planning something similar to happen. There were probably more, I haven't checked much beyond that and this post is getting long enough anyways. But if there's one Elim in that group somewhere, then the Elim team knew about the test the entire time, and you need to look at who's reacting accordingly. 

(As a note, I didn't know about this gambit. In case that's not obvious by my posts, @Sage Kangaroo can hopefully back up that I was looking for the Wild Goose of a Seeker claim that you made, in an effort to make some sense of what was happening.)

Other points: I'm really confused by how much you continue to defend or focus on the Seeker you say doesn't actually exist. The evidence we have of the Seeker's existence is that you told us. And the argument of "why would e!Cham do this" is odd to continue as well without a reason for why v!Cham does this.

But there's two more pages I haven't even looked at and this is long enough as it is.

The point of this fake claim stuff, as has been previously stated, is to get NK'd. The reaction part was secondary. I should not have to keep on explaining this.

Secondly, I don't know how many times I have to phrase this for you, but THE SEEKER DOESN'T STORMING EXIST. Stop asking about it, because I've already given you an answer.

Additionally, I'd like to note that AG8 Meerkas was perfectly fine with the gambit because they were going to die anyways. Mouse mentioned it to me in a PM.

3 hours ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

im not asking for chameleon to reveal who it is, im asking for the seeker itself to PM me so i can confirm the existence of a seeker.

The seeker. Does. Not. Exist.

End of discussion. 

(And no, I am not moving my vote. I simply don't care anymore)

[Opal Lion]

2 minutes ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

(And no, I am not moving my vote. I simply don't care anymore)

Try moving your vote, just try it, it'll make you feel better

[Pearl Chameleon]

10 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

Sage Kangaroo

I don't understand how people are still comfortable with the Heron train with how little resistance it's gotten.

It's possible that they are teamed with Pearl and this is some sort of attempt to get heat off of them, since they did claim when heron was at 3 and they were only at 1. Still, you have to think Pearl is an Elim to be voting on Heron right now.

Of course, because I would fakeclaim:

-being scanned

-a seeker of dubious alignment

-being a mistborn

-self protecting N1

In order to protect someone else, who I could've bussed or someone who I could've deflected the suspicion to. 

No one is thinking logically in this game.

 

Just now, Opal Lion said:

Try moving your vote, just try it, it'll make you feel better

I'm not moving my vote. I'd rather just be done with this game and leave.

59 minutes ago, Coral Swan said:

Alright, while I still think that there’s something to be gleaned from the day 2 votes, I’m going to unvote Scorpion because it seems like Chameleon cannibalized the entire thread by lying, and set things up so that we wouldn’t want to vote for them. But that reasoning is based on claims that we have no backing for.

I read some of Heron’s recent posts and I don’t really know what people find suspicious. Was there something from D1 that I missed?

Scorpion, Zebra, and Iguana all knew I was a thug before this gambit even happened, as I have said before. You claim I have no backing to my own claims. That is strictly false.

And look at the second paragraph! Someone else doesn't find mint Heron elimmy! I'm so glad this was posted right after!

54 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Chameleon

Heron

Besides Chameleon, no one's really tried to detract from Heron's exe, which makes me a little nervous. But I'm not sure where else to go.

Does no one even read the thread? 

[Opal Lion]

1 minute ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

[1] Of course, because I would fakeclaim:

-being scanned

-a seeker of dubious alignment

-being a mistborn

-self protecting N1

In order to protect someone else, who I could've bussed or someone who I could've deflected the suspicion to. 

No one is thinking logically in this game.

 

[2] I'm not moving my vote. I'd rather just be done with this game and leave.

[2] Well if you haven't noticed, you're not dying today. Don't know if you noticed the VC.

and

[1] You're tilted and not reading my post or my vote. Am I voting you? am I voting Heron? Who am I voting? Where do you see my reads? What posts do you see me making?

 

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

7 minutes ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

4. Dude. It's. My. Role. 

I don't care what you think about it

The gambit was half trashed anyways, and I don't see a reason for the village to ML me twice and lose should I hold on to this god Forsaken gambit

6. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from this whole ordeal, but I can confidentially say that Lion is village, mainly due to their line of questioning and the interaction they had with penguin. Again, I've listed out before why I think penguin is the elim, and since no one seems to care, I will not be wasting my time listing them again.

8. I already know the real mistborn who shot vulture, and if I wanted to find out, I would've claimed that I shot vulture and waited for the counterclaim.

How is claiming thug inherently evil? I can claim whatever I want, mainly because it's my role and not yours. Like, what would you have wanted me to do instead? If I'm a villager, I'm going to try to avoid being Exe'd. If I'm a Elim, I'm going to try and avoid being Exe'd. Claiming thug is strictly to avoid a double village ml. Like, how is any of that ai? Your line of reasoning just doesn't make sense.

If you seriously think I'm genuinely gamethrowing, contact the IM or something. It's not my problem.

I'm not doing the storming MR67 philosophy about whether or not I would self vote if Elim. Mainly because I DON'T CARE

Amethyst Scorpion voting me was not planned.

The point of this fake claim stuff, as has been previously stated, is to get NK'd. The reaction part was secondary. I should not have to keep on explaining this.

Secondly, I don't know how many times I have to phrase this for you, but THE SEEKER DOESN'T STORMING EXIST. Stop asking about it, because I've already given you an answer.

Additionally, I'd like to note that AG8 Meerkas was perfectly fine with the gambit because they were going to die anyways. Mouse mentioned it to me in a PM.

The seeker. Does. Not. Exist.

End of discussion. 

(And no, I am not moving my vote. I simply don't care anymore)

Let's take a breath friend. I am on your side o7 

[Pearl Chameleon]

15 minutes ago, Opal Lion said:

Sage Kangaroo

I don't understand how people are still comfortable with the Heron train with how little resistance it's gotten.

It's possible that they are teamed with Pearl and this is some sort of attempt to get heat off of them, since they did claim when heron was at 3 and they were only at 1. Still, you have to think Pearl is an Elim to be voting on Heron right now.

You're ignoring the evidence and cherry picking. I had told other people I was going to fakeclaim long before heron needed defending. Again, Scorpion can vouch for that, as with the fifty other people who mouse told about the gambit.

Again, look at the swan post and tell me that I'm the only person defending heron. 

 

[Opal Lion]

My current thoughts are trying to figure out if Amber's fixation on "who killed them" is villagery or if it's being used to avoid discussion.

Just now, Pearl Chameleon said:

You're ignoring the evidence and cherry picking. I had told other people I was going to fakeclaim long before heron needed defending. Again, Scorpion can vouch for that, as with the fifty other people who mouse told about the gambit.

Again, look at the swan post and tell me that I'm the only person defending heron.

Has nothing to do with who's defending who. Has to do with what has physically (for lack of better word) happened in thread. Defences mean nothing to me.