WoK, Death rattle from chapter 64 is Kaladin and Shallan?

[Mckeedee123]

The first time I read through The Way of Kings, I didn't think much of the death rattles. Most of them just didn't seem to have a clear direction (practically all of them were just "Death, destruction, everstorm, blah blah blah") . Seeing that WoR actually doesn't have any, though, seems to make them more significant. The death rattles, it seems, are meant to actually foreshadow specific events in the series (I know this isn't exactly plains-shattering, but I'm trying to point out that we should be looking for these prophecied events as we read). As I reread the book, I saw this epigraph in chapter 64, and it just kind of clicked

 

“They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.”

 

 

It seems to me that this is a reference to Kaladin and Shallan reemerging from the chasms in WoR into Dalinar's warcamp. The fact that it says "two dead men" might seem to debunk this immediately, as Shallan is, obviously, not a man*.

 

Still, if this rattle doesn't have some sort of context, it's pretty weird. a heart in their hands? This could be some sort of twisted metaphor, unless that "heart" is actually a reference to the gemheart that they brought out with them. The gloryspren around Kaladin during the scene also connect pretty well with the speaker's "and I know that I have seen true glory". The rattle also refers to them as "dead", which makes sense because Dalinar and most of his retinue already figured that Kaladin and Shallan were dead twice over (from the fall and the highstorms). Given all that (especially with "heart" part, which is just weird in any other context), It's apparent to me that the death rattle is referencing this specific event.

 

This, however, raises some questions on its own. First and foremost, are the rattles from the perspective of the speaker (in a vision)? Or is the person "channeling" someone else that witnessed the event? Is the guy who's dying here (A rickshaw puller,13 seconds pre-death.) seeing this and commenting on it? or is this from one of the characters' perspectives that he's voicing (Dalinar or some random soldier)?

 

Either way, it makes me a little giddy, for some reason, that Kaladin and Shallan are so important to the history of Roshar (and, therefore, the cosmere) that even this little blip from their lives deserves a place among all of these all-important, apocalypse-ey visions that we're reading about.

 

For the record. I have no idea whether this has been brought up yet, but I'm not about to read through thousands of posts to find out.

 

 

* A few people have challenged this fact, I believe. But that's just plain silly.

Edited August 29, 2014 by mckeedee123

[WeiryWriter]

It is something that has already been pointed out (at least once there, but I know it's been mentioned in a number of different places), sorry.

 

Edit:  Also moving this to the spoiler sub-forum, 'cause spoilers.

Edited August 29, 2014 by WeiryWriter

[Mckeedee123]

Aww... Well, too bad novelty is the thing men value most

 

Should I delete this or something?

[hoser]

Snap-upvote: welcome new poster and "plains-shattering"

 

But, yeah, it's been discussed and the chapter title for when they emerge is something like: "True Glory."

[kaellok]

 

“They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.”

 

 

It seems to me that this is a reference to Kaladin and Shallan reemerging from the chasms in WoR into Dalinar's warcamp. The fact that it says "two dead men" might seem to debunk this immediately, as Shallan is, obviously, not a man*.

 

* A few people have challenged this fact, I believe. But that's just plain silly.

Because I'm a fan of pedantic arguments, I accept your challenge!  You know, the one you didn't offer.

 

The quote says 'two dead men.'  Not 'two dead males.'  An accepted definition of 'man' is 'person;' and, in sci-fi or fantasy settings, more specifically as human.  The plural of man is men, and you get 'two dead humans/people.'  And that's how Shallan is, obviously, a man.